Author Topic: ADELMAN TO STAY....  (Read 2912 times)

Offline JoMal

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3361
    • View Profile
    • http://
    • Email
ADELMAN TO STAY....
« on: May 24, 2004, 12:39:16 PM »
In his annual "State of the Kings" ( :eek2: !!) address, Petrie confirmed that Rick Adelman would definitely be coaching the Kings next year, and the year after, as his contract has two years left on it. Focusing on the positive, Petrie said it was bad circumstances, primarily the injuries to Bobby Jackson and Chris Webber, that thwarted the Kings once agains in the post season, and that Adelman was blameless.

http://www.sacbee.com/content/sports/story...-10308845c.html

Well, the two are friends, afterall.

The player mix, however, could be altered - or not. Geoff also said that he wanted Chris Webber back with the team, in expected good health, for next season. He left the door ajar, however, regarding the possibility of trading his star player, saying he would listen to trade offers, should they come this summer.

The gist of his statement was that the Kings' organization feel they have a good thing going with their core players and want to keep the basic squad intact for now. This included persuading Vlade Divac to resign with the Kings, whom Petrie referred to as the "heart and soul" of the Kings.

Besides talking to Vlade, what Petrie plans on doing is something he should have done last year (which would have been resolved had he resigned Jimmy Jackson, except Jackson wanted a starting job). Which is getting some depth behind Peja Stojakovic.

The most bizarre accusation to come out of Sacramento after losing the second round playoff series to the T-Wolves has been the accusations from inside the Kings organization and from various "fans" who write to the paper or make fools of themselves on talk radio that Bobby Jackson could have played and he let down his team by sitting out.

This is so ridiculous it defies logic. Jackson, who last year played the Dallas series with a broken eye socket, to be accused of shirking playing time for injury is ludicrous. Supposedly it was to show his teamates and the King's organization just how important he is to the team. Wouldn't that sort of thing have the alternative effect of giving him a horrible reputation that would affect the balance of his career? Bobby was put in the awkward position of defending himself on the local sports radio show this morning.

The only thing Bobby did wrong was to suggest prior to the post season that he "could", possibly come back and play before the end of the playoffs. Before each game, the speculation built whether or not Jackson would be activated. Finally, fans just started to assume Bobby could play, but wouldn't.

These clowns are probably the same ones who tossed those glow sticks and mariachas onto Arco floor the last two games of that series. Beneath contempt.
"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty.....We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason.....We are not descended from fearful men, not from men who feared to write, to speak, to associate and to defend causes that were for the moment unpopular....We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home."

Guest_Randy

  • Guest
ADELMAN TO STAY....
« Reply #1 on: May 24, 2004, 01:29:07 PM »
A couple of problems with this assessment:

1)  Why is he talking about trading CWebb?  Because CWebb complained about playing in SacTown?  Please!  Petrie is a very good GM and smart enough to know that there isn't a team in the NBA who is going to take CWebb with his contract when you consider what the Kings have gotten from him in the last two years:  grief, whining, and a player who has been hurt more than he has been healthy -- esp. in the playoffs.

2)  So the reason the Kings didn't sign Jimmy Jackson is because he wanted a starting position?  Is that why he went to the Rockets for little money knowing that there was a "chance" that he might be able to work his way into a starting position?  This excuse just doesn't smell right.

My only problem with Jackson is why in the world the Lakers didn't go after him instead of Russell.

Offline JoMal

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3361
    • View Profile
    • http://
    • Email
ADELMAN TO STAY....
« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2004, 01:49:44 PM »
1.  He was talking about possible trade scenarios regarding Webber because the issue kept being brought up by the media, so he addressed it.

2. Jimmy Jackson essentially told the Kings he would love to come back, but only as a starter. Petrie obliged him by saying if he could sign with a team that guaranteed he would start, he could go with his blessing, but he could only resign him to the role which he had that season, as the first option off the bench. The Rockets promised him the starting job in Houston and he took it.

3. If the Lakers promised him Devean George's starting job, Jackson probably would be a Laker.
"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty.....We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason.....We are not descended from fearful men, not from men who feared to write, to speak, to associate and to defend causes that were for the moment unpopular....We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home."

Offline Lurker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3705
    • View Profile
    • Email
ADELMAN TO STAY....
« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2004, 03:27:38 PM »
From the Chicago Tribune:

All the Kings horses

When someone asked what he learned from coming up short so many consecutive seasons, Chris Webber offered a curious soliloquy after the Game 7 loss to Minnesota. "Always go with the ones who are the hardest workers and who, when your backs are down, they're the ones who will step up," Webber said. "Don't go with the ones who just flow through it. Go with the ones that it hurts them to lose. Go with the ones like Doug Christie. Go with the ones that'll give everything and be the scapegoat for your company, for your family, because those are the ones that will really put their all into it. It's really easy to disappear in tough times. And the true character of a person, I think, is your effort and your mentality when you don't know how things are going to turn out."

It was generally assumed that his comments were directed at Peja Stojakovic. He scored eight points in the Game 7 loss and, for the second time in three playoffs, averaged almost seven points per game fewer in the playoffs than in the regular season. Stojakovic doesn't play as well in the half court, which is playoff ball, and suffers when playing with Webber because Stojakovic doesn't get as many transition open shots. There also has been a long East-West divide in the Kings' locker room with Webber and Mike Bibby on one side and Stojakovic and Vlade Divac on the other. The talk has been the Kings might try to deal Webber in the off-season, but his long contract and uncertain health make that unlikely. With his value higher, Stojakovic might be dealt in a makeover to renew the Kings.
 
It riles them to believe that you perceive the web they weave.  Keep on thinking free.
-Moody Blues

Guest_Randy

  • Guest
ADELMAN TO STAY....
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2004, 03:54:25 PM »
Quote
From the Chicago Tribune:

All the Kings horses

When someone asked what he learned from coming up short so many consecutive seasons, Chris Webber offered a curious soliloquy after the Game 7 loss to Minnesota. "Always go with the ones who are the hardest workers and who, when your backs are down, they're the ones who will step up," Webber said. "Don't go with the ones who just flow through it. Go with the ones that it hurts them to lose. Go with the ones like Doug Christie. Go with the ones that'll give everything and be the scapegoat for your company, for your family, because those are the ones that will really put their all into it. It's really easy to disappear in tough times. And the true character of a person, I think, is your effort and your mentality when you don't know how things are going to turn out."

It was generally assumed that his comments were directed at Peja Stojakovic. He scored eight points in the Game 7 loss and, for the second time in three playoffs, averaged almost seven points per game fewer in the playoffs than in the regular season. Stojakovic doesn't play as well in the half court, which is playoff ball, and suffers when playing with Webber because Stojakovic doesn't get as many transition open shots. There also has been a long East-West divide in the Kings' locker room with Webber and Mike Bibby on one side and Stojakovic and Vlade Divac on the other. The talk has been the Kings might try to deal Webber in the off-season, but his long contract and uncertain health make that unlikely. With his value higher, Stojakovic might be dealt in a makeover to renew the Kings.
Umm, the Lakers will take Miller and Peja for Shaq -- oh, and throw Bobby Jackson as well -- we'll even give you Devean George -- oh, don't worry, we'll throw in Rick Fox too!   :rofl:  

Offline gaither

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 160
    • View Profile
    • Email
ADELMAN TO STAY....
« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2004, 06:28:11 PM »
Quote
Umm, the Lakers will take Miller and Peja for Shaq -- oh, and throw Bobby Jackson as well -- we'll even give you Devean George -- oh, don't worry, we'll throw in Rick Fox too!   :rofl:
 :crazy:  I realize you are joking, Randy. But the issue of this thread is about trading Webber and keeping Adelman. No one has even suggested trading Peja and BMiller, especially for garbage players like George and Fox. And I think you Laker fans are stuck with Shaq until he decides to hang up his uniform and sneakers for good.

Guest_Randy

  • Guest
ADELMAN TO STAY....
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2004, 06:33:51 PM »
Quote
Quote
Umm, the Lakers will take Miller and Peja for Shaq -- oh, and throw Bobby Jackson as well -- we'll even give you Devean George -- oh, don't worry, we'll throw in Rick Fox too!   :rofl:
:crazy:  I realize you are joking, Randy. But the issue of this thread is about trading Webber and keeping Adelman. No one has even suggested trading Peja and BMiller, especially for garbage players like George and Fox. And I think you Laker fans are stuck with Shaq until he decides to hang up his uniform and sneakers for good.
Actually, if you read what Lurker said, he stated (and I agree) that there has developed a schism between Webber and Bibby and Vlade and Peja -- and the assumption was that Peja was trade bait because of that schism.  And while you may not like Shaq, the Kings would LOVE to have him for a season or two -- it would do away with their "always the bridesmaid and never the bride."

Quote
And I think you Laker fans are stuck with Shaq until he decides to hang up his uniform and sneakers for good.

Hmm, who is more easily traded?  Shaq who has won three titles and still shows that he can be dominate -- or CWebb, who to date has only shown that he can't be counted on to win a title but he can be counted on to make a ton of money and pout if anyone gets on his case?

Offline JoMal

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3361
    • View Profile
    • http://
    • Email
ADELMAN TO STAY....
« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2004, 12:46:40 PM »
That article may have some grains of truth to it, but whether trading Peja would happen is extremely unlikely regardless of Webber's rant after the last T-Wolves game.

Peja is a just-entering-his-prime gunner who certainly would be of interest on the trade market, but it would have to be a trade that would improve the Kings enough to warrant it. Few players in the NBA fit that bill. When they actually run their offense so as to provide open looks for Peja through the use of screens and motion offense, Stojakovic is a deadly weapon. Perhaps no one else in the League is as consistantly deadly. That his shooting touch abandoned him in the playoffs is no reason to panic and trade him over it.

It does mean that Peja has entered that part of his career where he has to decide what kind of player he wants to be. He needs to rest more in the off-season and he needs to work more on his low-post moves and rebounding.

But he mostly needs to plan for his future pro basketball career in Sacramento.  
"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty.....We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason.....We are not descended from fearful men, not from men who feared to write, to speak, to associate and to defend causes that were for the moment unpopular....We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home."

Offline RolandoBlackman

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 43
    • View Profile
    • Email
ADELMAN TO STAY....
« Reply #8 on: May 26, 2004, 09:50:31 AM »
Hey JoMal!

While I agree with you in principle that Peja needs to refine his overall game, I think even more important is for the Sac coaching team to better define what his role is for the Kings.  I did not realize what a big guy Peja really is until I saw him standing next to KG one time...he's almost the same height!  Then, I observed him paying more attention to defense and rebounding  (he did OK, too!) when his shooting touch went south.  Stojakovic is still a work in progress, IMHO - perfect Larry Brown material.  If any team could use him it would be the Pistons.

-RB

Shaq #1

Offline WayOutWest

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7411
    • View Profile
ADELMAN TO STAY....
« Reply #9 on: May 26, 2004, 10:24:46 AM »
I don't see any future for the Kings with Peja leading the way.  While people would like to think of him as a Larry Bird type player, he's far from that in more ways then one.  Mentally, Peja doesn't not have Bird's savy, heart, brains, balls or desire.  Skillwise, Peja doesn't have Bird's post game, rebounding, team defense, ability to draw fouls or clutch shooting.  IMO Dirk is alot closer to Bird than Peja, I don't see that ever changing.

They guy the Kings could have legitimately claimed to lead them to the promise land was Chris Webber.  Unfortunately for the Kings Chris has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that he is not worthy.  He has neither the heart nor guts to lead a team to the championship.

In the 20+ years of watching the NBA I have not seen a team win the title with those types of players leading the way.

The guys on the Kings roster that do have the championship gleam in their eye are Bibby and Christie.  They remind me of the 80's Pistons back court.  You have a big time clutch shooter/scorer in Bibby ala Isiah, and a defensive stopper who can crank up the offensive output in the playoffs in Christie ala Dumars.

The problem is that Mike and Doug don't have dirty work players holding the line.  They have finess offensive players.  Vlade relies on gimmicks rather than sound b-ball fundamentals which is sad because the is the most fundamentally sound player behind KG, yes moreso than TD.  I've seen this guy play years before he came into the NBA and no bigman other than KG in the current NBA could out match Vlade's skills.  Webber is certified loser, nuff said.  My gripes with Peja have already been stated.

The Webberless Kings looked alot better than the playoff Kings.  Christie, Miller, Peeler and Soggypants (sic?) were doing the dirty work and Peja was carrying the scoring load.  I think it's time for the Kings to make a big move towards a ring, ala the Bibby/Willams trade.  They need to practically give away Webber and get a solid 2/3 because Christie's getting up there in age, as is Peeler, and a few bench players.   The non-Webber offense is better suited for the Kings personnel and would allow them to make fewer changes in personnel.

My views of the Kings are obviously limited because I don't see them as much as others on this board but that's what I've noticed about them over the past 4 years.
"History shouldn't be a mystery"
"Our story is real history"
"Not his story"

"My people's culture was strong, it was pure"
"And if not for that white greed"
"It would've endured"

"Laker hate causes blindness"

Offline JoMal

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3361
    • View Profile
    • http://
    • Email
ADELMAN TO STAY....
« Reply #10 on: May 26, 2004, 11:21:30 AM »
Hi Rolando, good to have you back -

WOW, I was going to counter your points at first, but then I stopped and thought about it. I have to concede most of the points you made, but just with some slight differences.

Peja's problem is not that he does not so much lack the mental edge, or that he lost energy during the playoffs, though the minutes he played in the much more tense games had to be draining for anyone. He has no solid backup behind him, though, and that puts all the pressure on him to be on the floor. This, in my mind, is strictly a coaching flaw of Adelman's. He provided no break for Peja to sit during the games and observe the action. The constant stress was just a mental strain on him and he probably is not suited to that level of stress, at least he plays as if he is not, so it is the same thing.

But of more concern is that Peja's much less athletic then his opponents. That means he is not going to necessarily free himself for shots in the playoffs without considerable help from teamates setting screens. Because of his off-season obligations, he never has time to work on low post moves, which would get him to the line more often and also free up shots from the outside as opponents lay off him more.

Primarily, I would like to see how Peja would do with better coaching. Adelman's motion offense is ideal for his skills - but since Rick does not use a motion offense in the playoffs, reduces his post season bench to a bare six or seven players deep, and disciplines players by severely frowning at them, I have to figure that this might be the best we can expect to see from Peja.

Webber's lack of leadership in the post season has become legendary, though mostly undeserved. But since no team he has played on has achieved enough, that is totally understandable if he gets paid the most to produce. But the criticism this year is offbase. Webber, at best, played this year at about seventy percent of his prior level. His effort never slacked off and though his shooting and defense at times were clearly beyond what he could do well, once again I have to blame the coach for not sitting him down and letting him observe the game from the bench more then from the court when that happened.

But the main fault of Webber is that he really does not shoulder any of the blame for the failings of his team, or his life, or affecting the lifes of those around him. His criticism of teammates after the last Wolves' game, which most thought was directed at Peja, was out of place considering his own contributions in that game led as much to the loss. Though his effort cannot be questioned, nor his heart, he clearly does not have "clutch" anywhere in his body. And you can have heart and effort, but just not be clutch, WOW. You also do not have to possess any self-blame either, so it seems.

The difference in that game between Webber and Peja, and to which Webber was bragging about in that post game interview, was that at least HE was willing to take and miss that last second shot and take the heat afterwards. In part, Chris was quoted as saying:

"No matter the occupation, always go with the hard workers,'' Webber said ``Go with the guys like Doug Christie. Go with the ones who'll be the scapegoat. It's really easy to disappear in tough times...."

No, Chris certainly does not disappear. No, you cannot say that about him. Late in that last game, his two missed layups, one for four shooting from the free throw line, and final missed three pointer made his presence on the court very clear to everyone indeed.

Peja must have told his team in the prior time out that he should not be allowed to take that final shot. At least, no effort to get him the ball was ever part of the last play.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2004, 11:23:11 AM by JoMal »
"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty.....We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason.....We are not descended from fearful men, not from men who feared to write, to speak, to associate and to defend causes that were for the moment unpopular....We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home."

Offline WayOutWest

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7411
    • View Profile
ADELMAN TO STAY....
« Reply #11 on: May 26, 2004, 12:13:36 PM »
JoMal,

I don't agree with your comments regarding Peja's lack of athleticism and ability to free himself up.  The biggest difference I've seen in Peja's game is his ability to get his shot off.  Rick Fox, who happens to have the strongest hands in the NBA, had great success against Peja because he was able to crowd him and make him uncomfortable shooting.  This year Peja had been able to get his shot off with people in his face/jersey from all kinds of wierd angles and positions on the floor.  I have no idea what happened to him lately but I believe NOW that the league is aware of Peja's abilities it's not enough to just crowd Peja, you have to actually make CONTACT on Peja to affect his shooting.  Peja reacted to this new style of defense by looking at the ref on every shot instead of looking at the rim.  In short Peja's size is enough to offset his lack of athleticism, he can pretty much shot over 95% of defenders with no problem.  Now he has to deal with contact.  Dirk has had the same problem and is starting to work through it.

I concur with you assesment of Peja's game suffering because he has no back-up.  Losing either Jackson or Hedo was no big deal BUT losing BOTH was a major mistake.  Peeler just doesn't have the size to play both the 2 and 3 spot.  The window is closing on the Kings to win a ring because of Doug/Webber/Vlade.  Miller will help to a great extent but he's not going to replace both Chris and Vlade.  I see nobody stepping into Dougs role at this point.
"History shouldn't be a mystery"
"Our story is real history"
"Not his story"

"My people's culture was strong, it was pure"
"And if not for that white greed"
"It would've endured"

"Laker hate causes blindness"

Guest_Randy

  • Guest
ADELMAN TO STAY....
« Reply #12 on: May 26, 2004, 12:28:36 PM »
The problem with the Kings -- and yes, I know, I sound like a broken record is Rick Adelmann.  Is Rick a great coach?  Yes and no.  

Yes -- the motion offense was INCREDIBLE and the Kings were finally playing some D this year -- with the additional inside presence of BMiller in the post, this team COULD have made a serious run at a championship -- WITHOUT CWebb playing huge minutes.  The problem is that whenever CWebb plays (and he played WAY too many minutes for a gimp), Rick, for whatever reason, can't run the motion offense.  Sure, I know that people will say that halfcourt offense happens in the playoffs -- but the motion offense IS a halfcourt set -- it focuses on players moving without the ball and the ball moving quickly from side to side -- and with the shooters the Kings have, it WOULD have worked.

No -- Adelmann seems to give way to CWebb -- whenever CWebb comes into the game he turns the whole offense over to him -- sink or swim.  Umm, that's not coaching, IMO.  I think you work together with your star players but you don't concede your leadership because the buck stops with you (we certainly know it doesn't stop with CWebb -- nothing is CWebb's fault).  The debacle in the playoffs lands at the feet of Rick Adelmann for ditching the motion offense and insisting a one-legged CWebb bring the Kings to glory -- and it was obvious to the entire basketball world that this wasn't going to happen -- but it never became obvious to Adelmann.  A PERFECT example of a great coach is what PJ (via Tex Winters) did with the Lakers during the Spurs series -- the Spurs were killing the triangle -- so they ditch the triangle and run screens and win the series (okay, there were some defensive adjustments too  B) .  I'm not sure whether Adelmann can't adjust or refuses to adjust because he is deferring to CWebb.


The Kings would be FOOLS to trade Peja -- and CWebb is untradeable -- plain and simple.  So what should the Kings do?  Go BACK to their motion offense and Adelmann needs to stand UP to Webber and tell him who the boss of this team is -- and if he doesn't like it he can cancel his huge contract and go somewhere else.  The FACT is that the Kings were better WITHOUT CWebb and they will be once again -- I believe it's CWebb's EGO that won't allow him to work within the motion offense and that's the reason why the Kings stop moving as soon as he gets the ball.  Adelmann needs to show CWebb that he isn't the team and that the Kings will NEVER win a championship until CWebb learns to do what the coach tells him to do.  And I think, to do this, the Kings need to bring CWebb off the bench -- he needs a bit of a humility lesson -- but I don't think that Rick Adelmann has the gonads to do that.