Let's talk about the extra flack some coaches are

[westkoast]

I noticed something after reading a bi-polar Spurs fan who at one minute is happy with Pop and the next severly depressed at his lack of coaching and/or his strategy for the team.  The same thing was said of Adleman by two Kings fans on the board.  Adleman was messing up the offense and has not made the best decisions in the long run.  Even various people and media sources out here in Laker land had some similar words for Phil Jackson when the Lakers were up and down right before the all-star break.  

Is it that everyone feels their own team is too talented for them to make mistakes or is it really that these coaches are not coaching the same exact way they have for the last 4 years?

The thread would like to hear from you.......

[jn]

As a general rule I will say that even the worst NBA coaches knows 1000x as much about basketball as I do.  I'll definitely criticize individiual coaching decisions in single games I am slow to criticize the overall ability of a coach and that goes double for winning coaches like PJ, Adelman, etc.  

[Lurker]

I think expectations were unusually high this year for many fans of the top 3 or 4 teams.  And several other teams have caught up with those top teams.  IMO this is most evident in the struggles that Dallas is having to stay in the top 6 seeds.  Memphis, Houston, Minnesota, Denver have all improved as well as a few Eastern teams.  And to bring the intensity needed every night to dominate the league (defined as 60+ wins) is almost impossible.

I don't think that the coaches are doing anything different...maybe they should...but the competitive balance in the league makes it appear that theses coaches are struggling.

[Laker Fan]

I've always thought Popovich was a subpar coach, who stifles offense for the sake of defense, not bad if defense is all  you have, but the Spurs have offensive capabilities. They've proven it when on rare occasions he let's them get out there and run, usually when his crutch, Duncan is not out there. When you have the post threat that is Tim Duncan on both ends of the floor and you waste his talent in a stagnant, pathetic, slow motion offense and you put chains on people like Ginobili and Parker, you are a mediocre coach at best. This team with Duncan in and allowed to run and be more fluid and creative on the offensive side of the court would be lethal, as it is they are boring and predictable.

Adelman suffers from similar tunnel vision, he seems unwilling or unable to adapt or adjust to changing circumstances, ie, the offense coming to a screaming stop when Webber hits the floor. He doesn't see the disruption in flow of one of the most potent and exciting offensive squads in recent memory and to my utter amazement, seems completely disinterested in defense, which to me is their Achille's heel come the post season. Adelman is to me subpar based on those facts alone. The Kings have had the talent to get them to the Finals for the last 3-4 years and he is a clear hindrance to that IMO.

And you all know I think Phil Jackson rides everybody elses talent and wisdom to glory, totally overrated and egomaniacal.

The Sloans and Hubie Browns of the NBA are the ones I respect, although Sloans substitution patterns have in the past left me scratching my head in bewilderment.

[spursfan101]

Pop does stifle, but he strongly believes defense wins championships. Ask the Kings and Mavs how many championships they have won? Fun to watch...YES!  Does offense win titles...NO.

[Lurker]

Actually Pop's stagnant offense is a direct result of his emphasis on defense.  He feels the worst thing that can happen defensively is to give up easy baskets off of turnovers.  And the motion offense produces too many turnovers in his opinion which puts an extra burden on the defense.  Therefore Pop believes in a efficient, low risk offense.  Many times in the past he has pointed to the Jazz offensive scheme as a model.  You knew they were going to run the pick & roll, you knew it was going to be Malone & Stockton.....and you knew that you couldn't stop it most of the time.

However the addition of Parker & Manu has forced him to re-evaluate.  He wants them to be on the floor but he can't stifle their creativity....especially Manu.  And the best unit the Spurs have in running the motion offense is Parker, Manu, Hedo, Horry & Rasho.  Funny thing about the Euros....they understand the passing & motion offense much better than any traditionally raised US player.

[gaither]

I'm not saying Adelman is a horrible coach. He is one of the better in the league, and seems like the kind of coach any player would love to play under as he gives his players a lot of latitude out on the floor. He has taken the Kings from league embarrassment to WC contenders (not that he deserves all the credit for this...Petrie and the players themselves share in that credit). However, Adelman does have a tendency to get too rigid in his methods sometimes. If something clearly isn't working, you need to be willing to tweak the formula a little. And I really think he has taken this team as far as it is going to go under his leadership and that's not good enough for a team with this level of talent.

[westkoast]

Actually Pop's stagnant offense is a direct result of his emphasis on defense.  He feels the worst thing that can happen defensively is to give up easy baskets off of turnovers.  And the motion offense produces too many turnovers in his opinion which puts an extra burden on the defense.

You know this is a great take on why Pop does the things he does.  I really never thought about it that way until I read your post.  Makes alot sense.  The Spurs are and always have been a much better defensive team than an offensive team.  That would lead one to ask 'Why would they focus more on offense then defense if thats true?'  Well with as well as Parker and Manu are comming along in the league I think its safe to say that the Spurs are a better offensive team than they have been in the previous years.  Most of the Spurs wins came from their great defense......but a number of wins this year have came from the offensive end.  Pop still needs to find that balance.  Especially when the playoffs hit because SA will not stop the Wolves, Lakers, or Kings for 4 games.

My 2nd question to everyone in the thread is........Are the coaches really doing anything different than they have in the past 4 years?  The Kings, Spurs, and Lakers all have been at the top 3 spots in the league for the past 4 years.

[Lurker]

My 2nd question to everyone in the thread is........Are the coaches really doing anything different than they have in the past 4 years?  The Kings, Spurs, and Lakers all have been at the top 3 spots in the league for the past 4 years.

Adelman - no, not doing anything different.  The difference this year is that the team matured past needing Webber to be the "leader" (mostly a statistical leader).  The past 2-3 years the Kings offense worked through Webber as the focus.  With Webber missing so much time this year...coupled with the time last year....the team has learned how to play with out him as the main focus.  As JoMal has said because of the huge salary & past actions Adelman & Webber believe the same thing will work.  Adelman needs to adapt and convince Webber to work with the rest of the team.  Not convince the rest of the team to work with Webber.

PJ - no, not doing anything different.  He is waiting until the playoffs.  Still expects his playoff tested vets to be professional and earn their money/rings.  He has tested his bench depth with all the injuries this year.  Except for Malone's (which may not still be 100%) none of the injuries have been severe.  They are getting healthy enough just in time for the playoffs.  PJ is a great playoff coach...he's been there, done that.  Great ability to get guys to buy into their roles.  Good motivator.  

Pop - yes, he has opened the offense.  But it has been a very slow process.  The focus at the start of the year (as is every season) is for the new players to learn the defense.  Missing a defensive assignment can earn bench time faster than any thing else in a game.  In this regards there has been no change.  Pop basically has been forced to open up the offensive game.  First, he wants Parker to step up and be a leader on the floor both by running the team and scoring.  Second, Manu & Hedo as Euros know the motion offense well.  They both can handle the ball and pass well.  Third, when Duncan went out with injury it became necessary to run the motion more.  The team responded well.  Rasho has proved to be a very underrated passer.  Bowen has developed an in-between game with dribble drives & short jumpers.  In some ways the Spurs are having the same trouble as the Kings.  They are having a tough time integrating Duncan into the motion offense.  So with Duncan on the floor the offense starts to stagnate.  The key when this happens is for the 3 pt shooters to hit the open shots when the defense sags on Duncan.   However Duncan, unlike Webber, is willing to sacrifice his game offensively if it means the team is more successful.  And Duncan is definately a critical part of the Spurs suffocating defense.

 :ph34r:  

[westkoast]

My 2nd question to everyone in the thread is........Are the coaches really doing anything different than they have in the past 4 years?  The Kings, Spurs, and Lakers all have been at the top 3 spots in the league for the past 4 years.

Adelman - no, not doing anything different.  The difference this year is that the team matured past needing Webber to be the "leader" (mostly a statistical leader).  The past 2-3 years the Kings offense worked through Webber as the focus.  With Webber missing so much time this year...coupled with the time last year....the team has learned how to play with out him as the main focus.  As JoMal has said because of the huge salary & past actions Adelman & Webber believe the same thing will work.  Adelman needs to adapt and convince Webber to work with the rest of the team.  Not convince the rest of the team to work with Webber.

PJ - no, not doing anything different.  He is waiting until the playoffs.  Still expects his playoff tested vets to be professional and earn their money/rings.  He has tested his bench depth with all the injuries this year.  Except for Malone's (which may not still be 100%) none of the injuries have been severe.  They are getting healthy enough just in time for the playoffs.  PJ is a great playoff coach...he's been there, done that.  Great ability to get guys to buy into their roles.  Good motivator.  

Pop - yes, he has opened the offense.  But it has been a very slow process.  The focus at the start of the year (as is every season) is for the new players to learn the defense.  Missing a defensive assignment can earn bench time faster than any thing else in a game.  In this regards there has been no change.  Pop basically has been forced to open up the offensive game.  First, he wants Parker to step up and be a leader on the floor both by running the team and scoring.  Second, Manu & Hedo as Euros know the motion offense well.  They both can handle the ball and pass well.  Third, when Duncan went out with injury it became necessary to run the motion more.  The team responded well.  Rasho has proved to be a very underrated passer.  Bowen has developed an in-between game with dribble drives & short jumpers.  In some ways the Spurs are having the same trouble as the Kings.  They are having a tough time integrating Duncan into the motion offense.  So with Duncan on the floor the offense starts to stagnate.  The key when this happens is for the 3 pt shooters to hit the open shots when the defense sags on Duncan.   However Duncan, unlike Webber, is willing to sacrifice his game offensively if it means the team is more successful.  And Duncan is definately a critical part of the Spurs suffocating defense.

 :ph34r:

Lemme just say I am glad you joined the board.  Us youngsters would say 'You are kickin some knowledge'.

The difference between getting Webber active and getting Duncan active is that Duncan is the better offensive player IMO.  He takes higher pct jump shots and he is twice the player Webber is in the paint.  On top of that Duncan is not a me me type of player.  Webber is.  Duncan will pass the ball if the player is open.  No doubt in my mind about that.  He not as good a passer as Webber but in order to be a good passer you do have to be unselfish.  Webber 2k4 is selfish it seems.  Webber before was not as selfish.  In fact his and Vlade's post passing is what got this team to learn how to play this way in the first place.

Thats why ive asked the Spurs fans around here if Pop is calling the plays or the team just is like 'phew Duncan is here lets just force feed him' because hes not selfish.....they just dont seem to play the same way when hes on the floor.