Author Topic: PJ leaves to get choked out by Durant - Hill becomes a Sun?  (Read 1766 times)

Offline westkoast

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Two latest pieces of news from the NBA I found interesting...

PJ Carlesimo has left the Spurs organization to persue his 3rd head coaching job in Seattle.  What does this mean for SA, he had been apart of the recent success?  Is he the right choice for that squad?

Grant Hill has decided to become a Sun.  Both The Suns and Hill agreed to a contract and he will become a Sun.   According to reports the Suns feel he is the missing piece to their championship squad.  Not quite sure why, especially if they infact deal Stoudamire, but that is what I read.

Thoughts from the crew?
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Offline WayOutWest

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Re: PJ leaves to get choked out by Durant - Hill becomes a Sun?
« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2007, 09:52:49 PM »
Two latest pieces of news from the NBA I found interesting...

PJ Carlesimo has left the Spurs organization to persue his 3rd head coaching job in Seattle.  What does this mean for SA, he had been apart of the recent success?  Is he the right choice for that squad?

Never thought much of him as a head coach, he's better suited as an assistant.

Grant Hill has decided to become a Sun.  Both The Suns and Hill agreed to a contract and he will become a Sun.   According to reports the Suns feel he is the missing piece to their championship squad.  Not quite sure why, especially if they infact deal Stoudamire, but that is what I read.

Hill at this point in his career could be like a Ron Harper was for the Lakers.
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Offline Skandery

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Re: PJ leaves to get choked out by Durant - Hill becomes a Sun?
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2007, 11:37:16 PM »
P.J. Carlesimo:

I don't like the hire.  Like WOW, never thought he was all that good of a coach.  People say he did yeoman's work at Seton Hall, why was it one of the dirtiest programs of that early 90s era.  At Portland he took a championship contending team and turned it into an also-ran.  In Golden State, well, it just didn't go all that well.  This is of course due to the Sam Presti connection, so I'm not all that surprised by the hire (Spurs stick together).  I think they could've done better than P.J. but he might surprise me. 

Grant Hill:

Nice pick up for the Suns and I think where they'll truly realize his value is in the half court offense the few times they run into a defensive team good enough to stop their transition (like the Spurs).  Hill can still shoot it efficiently from about 16 feet and is intelligent enough (and a good enough passer) to create something in the half court attack without having to wait around relying on the magical powers of Steve Nash--something I've yet to see any of the other Suns do (well maybe Diaw two years ago).  Good for the Suns, if he's healthy and is in the regular rotation--he'll help them. 
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Offline Reality

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Re: PJ leaves to get choked out by Durant - Hill becomes a Sun?
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2007, 12:02:35 AM »
PJ Carliesimo-  Seems Dwayne Casey was the better hire but yes Spurs-Presti connection ruled.  I think he can live down his other two head coaching bombs.  I'm sure the Sonics are trying to create a Spurs North atmosphere (soon to be Sonics Midwest anyways in Kansas City.)  So i don't judge him on his last two bombs, but i can't say how he will do here.  I thought Seattle should have kept Rashard Lewis but water under bridge, they might have offered him the max and he was bailing no matter what.

Grant Hill:  Have no reason to believe he is going to be healthy for the playoffs.  If he is, more valueable vs Mavs then vs Spurs.  I think Spurs D will counteract him again, altho his midrange is just what the Dr ordered in slow grunty Pop type games.  Can he defend?  Interesting to see who the new Spurs Offensive Coor will be, and what if anything he will be allowed to do.

Offline westkoast

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Re: PJ leaves to get choked out by Durant - Hill becomes a Sun?
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2007, 10:12:05 AM »


Grant Hill:

Nice pick up for the Suns and I think where they'll truly realize his value is in the half court offense the few times they run into a defensive team good enough to stop their transition (like the Spurs).  Hill can still shoot it efficiently from about 16 feet and is intelligent enough (and a good enough passer) to create something in the half court attack without having to wait around relying on the magical powers of Steve Nash--something I've yet to see any of the other Suns do (well maybe Diaw two years ago).  Good for the Suns, if he's healthy and is in the regular rotation--he'll help them. 

Love the new avatar lol

The question is will Grant Hill either get ran into the ground or get injured by the time they really need him in the half court?  They do fine in the regular season with forcing uptempo basketball  but have been pretty poor in that department in the last two years come playoff time.  Even with  teams much less talented then they are (like the Lakers) they have trouble if they are forced to slow down.

My opinion on it is for the amount of money they are paying him, which I believe is the 1.5 vet minimum (Suns had a 2 million dollar buffer), it is a good pick up for a player of his caliber.  However, I don't think they should start him and that seems to be what they are heading towards.  I also don't believe he is the savior that is taking them to the promise land.  Until they address defense and Amare develops a better back to the basket pound and score game they are going to continue to be 2nd and 3rd round fodder.  Grant Hill or not.  At least this Grant Hill.  If we was still drinking sprite I would have to change my tune.

As for PJ...let's just say I hope Durant doesn't choke him out when he doesn't put mustard on a pass.  He should have stayed in SA as an assistant.  I just don't see him being the type of coach to utilize young talent and develop it quickly.
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Offline JoMal

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Re: PJ leaves to get choked out by Durant - Hill becomes a Sun?
« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2007, 10:52:03 AM »
PJ Carliesimo:

Quite a bold pick by Seattle. His notorious track record is no fluke. He is not known as a "people" guy and most former players have problems giving praise to him. But he is known as a teacher, so with a relatively young squad (and potential veteran malcontents like Lewis and Allen gone), he might be able to get something going with the Sonics.

Grant Hill:

His best basketball skills fell under with his bad ankle, but no one has ever questioned this guy's basketball IQ. I would expect Steve Nash and Hill to form a formittable leadership bond on the Suns and that all important chemistry problem will improve. The problem, as always with Hill, is how much actual time will be spent on the court and not the trainer's room.
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Offline Skandery

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Re: PJ leaves to get choked out by Durant - Hill becomes a Sun?
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2007, 11:11:46 AM »
Thanks 'koast, after that movie, I just gotta rock the Bumblebee avatar--man I want one of those 5th generation Camaro's like you wouldn't believe. 

===============================================================================

First of all I agree for the vet minimum, Hill is a good investment.  If he is utilized at all, he'll have been worth the minimum.  Now he sure isn't going to be a savior or anything and I don't really think he should start for them.  I know he said that he wants to, but what player doesn't.  He should be a lot like Diaw that first season (1st half of that season):  a 6th man who'll give you a solid 20-24 minutes on both ends of the court.  He's smart and can have the offense run through him on occasion.  I don't think he'll fall into the trap of just watching Steve Nash play which is what a lot of the Suns fall into in the half-court.   
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Offline WayOutWest

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Re: PJ leaves to get choked out by Durant - Hill becomes a Sun?
« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2007, 11:19:36 AM »
Thanks 'koast, after that movie, I just gotta rock the Bumblebee avatar--man I want one of those 5th generation Camaro's like you wouldn't believe.

That was my favorite part of the whole movie, his upgrade was the best.  FYI, that car is still a concept car, may or may not ever go into production.  I have a Bumble Bee micro remote car, not opening the package, no matter what my kids say!
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Offline westkoast

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Re: PJ leaves to get choked out by Durant - Hill becomes a Sun?
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2007, 11:04:17 AM »
Thanks 'koast, after that movie, I just gotta rock the Bumblebee avatar--man I want one of those 5th generation Camaro's like you wouldn't believe. 

===============================================================================

First of all I agree for the vet minimum, Hill is a good investment.  If he is utilized at all, he'll have been worth the minimum.  Now he sure isn't going to be a savior or anything and I don't really think he should start for them.  I know he said that he wants to, but what player doesn't.  He should be a lot like Diaw that first season (1st half of that season):  a 6th man who'll give you a solid 20-24 minutes on both ends of the court.  He's smart and can have the offense run through him on occasion.  I don't think he'll fall into the trap of just watching Steve Nash play which is what a lot of the Suns fall into in the half-court.   

According to the article I read he is going to start and the Suns feel he is the missing piece...It is very hot out there right now so maybe when they can think in temperatures less then 110 they'll come to their senses.  Speaking of basketball IQ..the Suns do need it.  Seems like Steve Nash is the only player who thinks the entire game.  The rest tend to play like chickens with their heads cut off more then half the game.

Saw Transformers yesterday and I am really stoaked on it also.  I wanted to go buy transformers toys as if I was 8 years old again.  The movie was so good all the way around I am probably going to go see it again this weekend.  Shout out to Bubble Bee the last real soulja since Tupac!
« Last Edit: July 07, 2007, 11:06:19 AM by westkoast »
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Offline ziggy

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Re: PJ leaves to get choked out by Durant - Hill becomes a Sun?
« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2007, 05:13:39 PM »
I was never impressed with PJ when he coached in Portland.  I thought his teams consistently under achieved.  It has been a long time since GS, and he has spent a lot of time with SA, so maybe he has improved his skills since, and mellowed as he has got older.  We will see.

As far as Hill this is a tremendous move.  They are paying him like $1.8 million.  In other words they are paying him assuming he will miss a lot of games.  If he stays relatively healthy (50-60 games), then his salary will be one of the absolute bargains in the league.  He can still play, and play well.  WOW is right this is very much analogous to Ron Harper and the Lakers, and he did a lot to help the Lakers win titles.
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Offline Reality

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Re: PJ leaves to get choked out by Durant - Hill becomes a Sun?
« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2007, 12:36:49 PM »
Carlesimos already have endured toughest tests
By Steve Kelley

Seattle Times staff columnist


ROD MAR / THE SEATTLE TIMES

Boston GM Danny Ainge, left, and Seattle coach P.J. Carlesimo share a laugh at the NBA Summer League in Las Vegas.


LAS VEGAS — The San Antonio Spurs were preparing to leave for Dallas for the third game of their 2006 Western Conference semifinal playoff series, when Carolyn Carlesimo got the bad news from her biopsy tests.

She had Hodgkin's lymphoma and would have to endure the tedious ordeal of chemotherapy and radiation treatments. The long-term prognosis was good, but the short-term experience would be exhausting and tortuous.

For her husband, P.J., then an assistant with the Spurs, these were the most difficult and draining days in another long, challenging NBA season. Now, suddenly, his wife's illness was changing his perspective on the series and on his values.

Instead of preparing a game plan to beat the Mavericks, he and Carolyn were listening to strategies to beat cancer. And, while Carolyn prepared for chemo, P.J. agonized over his choices.

Should he leave the team at this most crucial time of the season? Take care of the kids and Carolyn? Or should he continue to do his job, work through all of the worry and hurt that comes with the news that a spouse has cancer and keep coaching.

"Pop [Spurs coach Gregg Popovich] would say to me, 'What are you doing at practice? Go home and take care of your wife. Deal with that,' " Carlesimo said Sunday afternoon. "And Carolyn was saying to me, 'What are you doing at home? Go to practice.' "

Coaches are, by nature, control freaks. Most aren't comfortable with variables. They like their teams to run the plays that are called, play the defenses that are taught and believe in the philosophies they profess.

But this was something completely out of Carlesimo's control. He couldn't game plan for cancer. He couldn't out-work the problem. This was his wife's disease. It was her oncologist's case. All he could do was be there.

"It was a scare," Carlesimo said. "It wasn't like I could get that stuff figured out."

Carolyn's chemo was scheduled to begin the day after the seventh game of the Dallas series, which meant, if the Spurs beat the Mavericks, they would be preparing for another Western Conference finals.

"She told me I had to coach," Carlesimo said.

The Spurs, however, lost the seventh game to Dallas and the decisions were made for them. Carlesimo was able to be with his wife for every round of chemo.

"Sure it changes you. Sure it gives you some perspective," Carlesimo said. "I mean that's the real world, not what we coaches do for a living. That stuff is real life. It makes you think about your core values. I think one thing it taught me was not to take myself too seriously."

Carolyn Carlesimo's program of radiation and chemotherapy was successful. A little more than a year removed from the diagnosis, she is healthy again. She is examined every three months, eventually that will expand to every six months and, after five years of negative tests, she will officially be declared cancer free.

This past weekend, she was in Paris for the wedding of Spurs point guard Tony Parker and Eva Longoria.

"We've really put the cancer away," Carlesimo said.

Now they begin a new phase of their lives, in a new city, in a much different set of difficult circumstances. Carlesimo is the new head coach of the Seattle Sonics, a franchise in limbo, waiting for a new arena and threatening to move.

It is a team that won a mere 31 games last season. Fixing it is a monumental challenge.

In the corner of a cafe in the Palms Hotel on Sunday, Carlesimo talked animatedly for two hours about the dramas and traumas, big and small, in his life. And about the future of his new team.

Some coaches talk in sound bites. Carlesimo talks in seven-course meals. Some coaches give you one-word answers. Carlesimo gives you Dostoyevsky. Some coaches answer in a straight line. Carlesimo meanders.

This is his first job as head coach since he was fired in 1999 by Golden State. He comes to Seattle with a reputation for being as tough and demanding as any coach in the game.

Carlesimo, 58, is a grinder and understands there will be times in the course of this next long season he will push players too hard, too far.

"Absolutely," he said. "No question I will. But I think I'd be making a big mistake if I came in here walking on egg shells. [General manager] Sam Presti and [owner] Clay Bennett hired me to coach. If I don't push guys and don't get on 'em, then I'm not doing a good job. I'm not doing what I should be doing.

"I'm sure there's going to be a night when I yank somebody out of a game, or there's going to be a day at practice where I go too far. That's going to happen.

"I hope I've learned and changed and I am better since Golden State. But there's also a part of me that, deep down inside is saying, 'Hey, I ain't that different.' I don't think this is going to be dramatically different than the way I've done things before. There's going to be some rough spots for sure, but I can't be scared of the rough spots."

This is the 10th anniversary of Carlesimo's roughest spot — the incident with Latrell Sprewell. At a practice on Dec. 1, 1997, Golden State guard Sprewell felt he was pushed too hard and attacked his coach, putting a choke hold on Carlesimo. The NBA expelled Sprewell and he didn't play again until he was traded to New York in January 1999.

Fairly, or unfairly, that 10- to 15-second attack has become a signature moment in Carlesimo's career. It is remembered even more than his trip to the 1989 Final Four in Seattle with Seton Hall.

"I'm not going to be able to change that," he said. "We could win seven NBA championships and that's not going to change. It's always going to color people's perceptions of me. But not the basketball people's impressions. They know me better than that. And I can't dwell on what happened with Spree. That's time poorly spent."

The past five years he sat alongside Popovich and has been part of one of the league's most accomplished dynasties. Popovich's style is much like Carlesimo's and it has been almost validating for Carlesimo to see it work so well for so long in San Antonio.

"First of all, Pop doesn't think he invented the wheel," Carlesimo said. "Yet, at the same time, he knows how he wants to play and he insists that the players play that way. At this point now, he's got so much credibility when he talks to the players they listen, because they know he knows how to get a ring. If he tells them to stand on their head they'll say, 'I've never heard that before, but it must work.'

"He has a vision and he communicates very well with the players. Some times it's blunt and direct. Some days he does it with laughter and some positive stuff. But if it's going to take a 3 ½-hour film session, where they look at every mistake, then he'll do that."

This job with the Sonics could be Carlesimo's last stand. His last opportunity to get out from under the Sprewell curse. His last chance to prove he can win consistently in the NBA, to show he isn't only a good college coach, or a good NBA assistant.

"It may be, but I haven't thought about it in that way," he said. "In a sense I've thought about my legacy. I feel good with my college years, especially. The relationships I had with my players. I think I did all right by Wagner, by Seton Hall, by New Hampshire College.

"Yeah, I wish my NBA record [177-222] was a hell of a lot better than it is, but I do think I did a good job when I was in Portland [1994-97]. I don't think I was as bad at Golden State [1997-99] as it was perceived. But that's me spinning it my way. I think I can coach.

"I tell people, and I know they don't believe me, if I hadn't got one [head coaching opportunity], I think I could have stayed in San Antonio for a long time — at least until Pop retired. I wouldn't have felt like, 'Man it wasn't fair that I never got another job.' I don't think I'm owed a job."

The hoop world will be watching Seattle this season, wanting to see if the San Antonio model can be duplicated in the Northwest.

And that world will be watching Carlesimo to see if he can be patient with this new, painfully young, work in progress. That he has learned from his years with Pop.

Steve Kelley: 206-464-2176 or skelley@seattletimes.com


Copyright © 2007 The Seattle Times Company

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