How old is 'too old to rock and roll'?

[Rolando Blackman]

Hey y'all:
   
Let me start this off with some apropos lyrics from Jethro Tull (the band, not the the agriculturist they named themselves after):
   
He was too old
To rock and roll
But he was too young to die...
   
A a musician myself, I have often wondered why should it be that the creativity of artists (especially musicians), decreases with age?  If anything, one would expect that due to the added experiences (and sheer familiarity with that which has already been experienced, analyzed, and internalized) that life has afforded them, older artists would be the most prolific creators of new and innovative works...unfortunately, such is not the case.

It's late, and I'm tired now...I will complete this line of thought tomorrow.
   
- RB
Shaq #1

[westkoast]

Well in all fairness most of the rockers we get to hear started at a young age, you can't expect to see too much from people who have been making records for the masses for 20 years to blow your mind.

Another thing is, you can't teach an old dog new tricks.  I am not just talking about tricks to play instruments but adapting to a new sound.  For example, Sublime used a hybrid of reggae, rock, and then had a dj come in to scratch records as an added bonus.  Most bands don't want to "play themselves" by adjusting to new technology or new ways to approach music.  Some may hate hip hop but could be missing out on borrowing a few things from them, like you know, sampling vocals or small pieces for hooks.

How old is too old?  How old is Keith Richards? lol  Cuz that is my answer!

[Rolando Blackman]

Hey wk!!!
 
Actually, even though they are not exactly my favorites, I give the Rolling Stones credit for making one of the biggest adaptations to changing musical tastes over the years by a major rock group while still remaining commercially successful (BTW, I am from the years when 'commercial' meant 'sellout').  They morphed from their early 'Satisfaction/Honky Tonk Woman' sound to the intermediate "Goat's Head Soup" incarnation ('Dancin' with Mr. D.', 'Heartbreaker' - my favorite Stones songs) to their "Miss You" disco-influenced period, to the 'Start Me Up' era, to whatever it is they are doing these days (I wouldn't know).  Yes, they are too old too rock and roll now, by far - but their longevity is unmatched, I think in the history of rock.

My take on the creativity/innovation thing is different than yours, however.  I see from my own situation that everyday life starts to crowd out one's time needed to develop the background skill set needed to produce new and original tunes.  These professionals who are able to make a living off of their musicianship do not have that excuse, IMO.  I know that for me, as I progressed in my ability my tastes were changing because of constant exposure to new input.  This definitely improved (at least to me) my playing and musical composition abilities.  Why not for them?
   
To provide a parallel example, as an IT professional, it is incumbent on me to keep my skill set upgraded as to current technology and concepts, otherwise I'm out of work - just go to Dice.com and see all forum posts from old-school mainframers crying about how they can't land a job any more.  Why doesn't this same thing apply to musicians? Logically it should, it seems to me.
   
-RB
Shaq #1

[rickortreat]

You're never to old to rock and roll, but some people may not want to listen anymore!

Tastes change, but people don't always. People from our generation still listen to rock, but the younger kids can't go see Led Zeppelin in concert, so they listen to Brittany Spears, or fifty-cent.

A lot depends on the musician, some of them are really creative artists and should improve with age, but others were just monkey's who learned a couple of chords and screwed around until they found something that sounded cool.

Then again, a lot of it seems to be that the creative juices don't flow evenly, maybe Billy Joel doesn't care enough anymore to come up with something new.  He already has more money than he know what to do with, and doesn't get the same joy out of producing songs.

Prince is one of the most talented musicians of our generation, but even at his half-time show, he played songs he wrote over 20 years ago.  You'd think by now he'd come up with some new stuff, but his old songs are still good ones.  Maybe they get to the point where they figure, they can't write anything new that people will think is as good as the old hits. 

I bet if they didn't have so much money, they'd still be trying to write new tunes.

[Rolando Blackman]

Hey ricko!!!
   
While the digital recording technology revolution that began over a quarter-century ago has totally re-tooled the recording studio, there are many not-so-positive impacts that have resulted from it.   I have listed some of the ones that have occurred to me, below:

(1) Because of 'drum machines' (I hate them), far more musicians than you might believe think that a drummer is not only unnecessary, but obsolete!  There few things more sterile than recording/producing with a 100% drum-machine backing track, IMO.
   
(2) Now THIS gets deep here...

I have been thinking about how artists in the music field can profit from their musicial creations in the digital age, with the almost-perfect technology that enables digital copying.  I used to avoid downloading songs from the Usenet, because I do understand the artists' belief that their works should not be infringed upon - hypocritically now, however I just get almost anything I want with relative ease from Internet news servers.  I haven't bought a CD in who-knows-how-long because of this - Apple's I-Pod distribution model won't hold up much longer, mark my words.
   
Really, when it comes down to it the only way that the artist of the future is going to be able to guarantee a fat revenue stream is to produce a lot of material, get it out on the net, and then TOUR!!!  Yes, it's work...but not like the rest of us have to do. 

 
"Time to face the strange ch-ch-changes..."
David Bowie, "Changes"
   
- RB
Shaq #1

[westkoast]

Personally, when I speak with older musicians they seem to have this mentality that the music they play and the music they grew up on is superior to all.  Anything that came after that is not good enough and just not music.  They seem to have this problem with newer genres and newer ways of doing things.  Now I am not saying if you grew up on 70s rock that you need to jump head first into R&B in the 2000s all excited.  Just that they have different approaches to creating music, different harmonies, etc.  I think some old dogs are too hard headed to try new things.  All the young guys I know soak up any information/ideas they can get from older musicians but it doesn't seem to go in the opposite direction.  Especially when it comes to software/computer related things.

IT job RB?  You and I are in the same boat.  Eventually I maybe out there doing the same thing.

[Rolando Blackman]

Hey wk!!!
   
You have touched upon a VERY sore nerve...believe me, as a 50-something IT professsional with almost 30  years of experience, I am very worried about my ability to continue in the field as an independent consultant (especially at my rate, which is NOT cheap - hey, I'm good! LOL).  I know that I am lucky to have a (seemingly) open contract for my services with the City of L.A. - however, because I have been here so long (since 2001), I have pretty much lost all of my network in the business.  I do my best to keep up with current techologies (I am certified in everything from Java application development to almost any Microsoft technologies you can think of), but with the stupidly rapid pace of change today,there really is no way to be a generalist anymore.  The demise of programming in the U.S. (at least by the native-born) is one of the saddest things that has ever happened to this country, and very few outside of our field even have slightest idea why.
   
I recognize that my formative years in IT were similar to what historians might label as 'pre-industrial' times - by that I mean that every application that was created usually was 100% unique, only superficially borrowing from work previously performed.  Although highly inefficient, you had better believe that the gratification one received from implementing a massive system (which I have done many,many times over 30 years) is matched by few other experiences.  It's YOUR concept, YOUR creation, and you made it real, useful, and worthwhile (hopefully), after working your fingers to the bones!  Still to this day, few things make me feel better than making my clients' work easier through the IT solutions I provide them. Unfortunately, the trend is to outsource EVERYTHING related to IT (at least in the corporate world) to consulting firms, usually from India or China.  This is the way it goes...but I don't have to like it!

Mamas - don't let your children grow up to be IT pros...
   
Perfect example of the pernicious (at least to Americans) outsourcing syndrome: Back in the Cretaceous Period, the L.A. Times had a beat reporter that covered ALL games, home and away...no more, though.  Check the byline on this story:
   
http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-lakers14feb14,0,4153965.story?coll=la-home-sports
   
Dang...the L.A. Times covers the predominant local team with AP stories when they are on the road. This sucks - I can read a generic AP story in the 'Podunk Press'!  Ricko, Dabods, does the Philly Inquirer do this?  Reality, the S.D. Union with the Clippers (LOL)?  I've got to believe that it wouldn't cost the LAT too much more than the fee the AP charges them for the say-nothing article the AP generates than having their own sportwriter present at the game to provide a "homer's-eye view of the hapnins'.  Come on!!!
   
-RB
Shaq #1

[Lurker]

Dang...the L.A. Times covers the predominant local team with AP stories when they are on the road. This sucks - I can read a generic AP story in the 'Podunk Press'!  Ricko, Dabods, does the Philly Inquirer do this?  Reality, the S.D. Union with the Clippers (LOL)?  I've got to believe that it wouldn't cost the LAT too much more than the fee the AP charges them for the say-nothing article the AP generates than having their own sportwriter present at the game to provide a "homer's-eye view of the hapnins'.  Come on!!!
   
-RB
Shaq #1

Well, the mighty metropolis of San Antonio manages to "imbed" a reporter with the troops on the front line.  Although for some west coast games the first report will be a an AP story due to the 2 hour time difference.  When the game doesn't end until after midnight locally the reporter has a hard time making the deadline for printing.  But he will always file a story the next day. 

[JoMal]

You know you are getting old when newer music just does not satisfy the ear any longer. There are some new stuff that I have liked, but for me, I have to listen to what is now called "Classic Rock" stations and cds to be musically satisfied.

It seems to me those older artists put more effort into writing the music then the more recent ones because of the use of computers. Now, sounds can be generated electronically that used to have to be created by a musician himself, so the recent music has a tendency to copy the same background sounds too often.

That, plus these female copycat singers. There is no way in hell I can tell one from the other by their voices alone. Just can't do it.

[Rolando Blackman]

Hey JoMal!
   
As a parent with a n 18-year old son, I can definitely empathize with your viewpoint.  To me, my son's music sounds like something off of 'Hobo Kelly' or "Romper Room" (yes, I'm dating myself - BFD) - completely incoherent and unintelligible, not to mention non-musical to the max.  To him, what I listen to (jazz-fusion, nortena/corridos, reggae, Hawai'ian) is just so much noise.  So much for a meeting of the minds!  LOL
   
-=RB
Shaq #1

[JoMal]

Hey JoMal!
   
As a parent with a n 18-year old son, I can definitely empathize with your viewpoint.  To me, my son's music sounds like something off of 'Hobo Kelly' or "Romper Room" (yes, I'm dating myself - BFD) - completely incoherent and unintelligible, not to mention non-musical to the max.  To him, what I listen to (jazz-fusion, nortena/corridos, reggae, Hawai'ian) is just so much noise.  So much for a meeting of the minds!  LOL
   
-=RB
Shaq #1

No kidding, R&B (Hey - Rolando Blackman = Rythm and Blues!!)

We were driving to the Bay Area with my nephew and his wife, playing Peter Frampton and after a while she commented on how weird our music was. It certainly is an eye-opener to be on the receiving end of THAT comment.

JoMal