Kidd to LA LA Land?

[Joe Vancil]

New Jersey is ABSOLUTELY hurting for big men, and especially so since Nenad Krstic went down for the season.  Beyond Krstic, the New Jersey front-court is Jason Collins, Josh Boone, Mile Ilic, Mikki Moore, and Clifford Robinson.  That's their entire collection of power forwards and centers.

If I'm Thorn, if you don't include Bynum, don't bother me.

Now - as for Kidd as an acquisition:

ANY team will benefit from the addition of a Jason Kidd.  He's a good defender, and a good rebounder, and defensively and defensive style-wise, he'll fit in PERFECTLY with what Phil Jackson likes.  DEFENSIVELY.

No point guard with any sort of shakiness to his shot has benefitted for very long within the triangle offense.  In fairness to Kidd, his shot has improved over the years, and he MIGHT BE evolving into the kind of shooter that the triangle offense could use.  However, while any improvement in ball movement from Kidd's passing is a benefit, it will likely be a LIMITED benefit, due to the LIMITED TOUCHES that Kidd will get as the result of playing in the triangle offense.  Keep in mind that the triangle works reasonably well with even limited point guards running it:  Hodges, Paxson, Kerr, B.J. Armstrong, Randy Brown, Derek Harper, Lindsey Hunter, Brian Shaw, Smush Parker, John Celestand, Sasha Vujacic, and even Ron Harper - a converted 2-guard.  David Wesley would make a point guard under this system.  If you look at the MOST TALENTED passer at point guard in the triangle, you're likely to find Tyronn Lue - and after Lue, you're looking at rookie point guard Jordan Farmar, and that's FAR from being anywhere close to the level of passer that Kidd is.  Gary Payton is a better passer than any of the previously listed players, and he struggled because of how limiting the triangle was to him.  I think Kidd will run into the same problem.  Of course, I think Kidd's shooting has evolved beyond the shooting of Payton, so *IF* Kidd focuses on continuing to improve his shot, he might work out.  But on the offensive side of the ball, you will not get the Jason Kidd that you're used to seeing currently in New Jersey within the Lakers' triangle offense.

If I could get Kidd, I'd do it.  The triangle is only in LA as long as Phil Jackson is in LA - if that - and talent is talent...and Kidd is A LOT of talent.  The going thought is that whichever team gets the most talented player wins in a trade.  If that's the case, LA wins if they get Kidd - even if it costs them Bynum.

[Laker Fan]

16-18 feet he is effective enough to keep defenses honest WOW, that is good enough for me

[Lurker]

..other than Bynum and Odom, everything else on the Lakers squad is pretty worthless and since Cupcake is our GM, I doubt there will any takers.

Will you trade that useless Bryant guy for Fabs?

[WayOutWest]

..other than Bynum and Odom, everything else on the Lakers squad is pretty worthless and since Cupcake is our GM, I doubt there will any takers.

Will you trade that useless Bryant guy for Fabs?

Bryant is untradable, that's why I don't include him as a valuable trading commodity.

[westkoast]

New Jersey is ABSOLUTELY hurting for big men, and especially so since Nenad Krstic went down for the season.  Beyond Krstic, the New Jersey front-court is Jason Collins, Josh Boone, Mile Ilic, Mikki Moore, and Clifford Robinson.  That's their entire collection of power forwards and centers.

If I'm Thorn, if you don't include Bynum, don't bother me.

Now - as for Kidd as an acquisition:

ANY team will benefit from the addition of a Jason Kidd.  He's a good defender, and a good rebounder, and defensively and defensive style-wise, he'll fit in PERFECTLY with what Phil Jackson likes.  DEFENSIVELY.

No point guard with any sort of shakiness to his shot has benefitted for very long within the triangle offense.  In fairness to Kidd, his shot has improved over the years, and he MIGHT BE evolving into the kind of shooter that the triangle offense could use.  However, while any improvement in ball movement from Kidd's passing is a benefit, it will likely be a LIMITED benefit, due to the LIMITED TOUCHES that Kidd will get as the result of playing in the triangle offense.  Keep in mind that the triangle works reasonably well with even limited point guards running it:  Hodges, Paxson, Kerr, B.J. Armstrong, Randy Brown, Derek Harper, Lindsey Hunter, Brian Shaw, Smush Parker, John Celestand, Sasha Vujacic, and even Ron Harper - a converted 2-guard.  David Wesley would make a point guard under this system.  If you look at the MOST TALENTED passer at point guard in the triangle, you're likely to find Tyronn Lue - and after Lue, you're looking at rookie point guard Jordan Farmar, and that's FAR from being anywhere close to the level of passer that Kidd is.  Gary Payton is a better passer than any of the previously listed players, and he struggled because of how limiting the triangle was to him.  I think Kidd will run into the same problem.  Of course, I think Kidd's shooting has evolved beyond the shooting of Payton, so *IF* Kidd focuses on continuing to improve his shot, he might work out.  But on the offensive side of the ball, you will not get the Jason Kidd that you're used to seeing currently in New Jersey within the Lakers' triangle offense.

If I could get Kidd, I'd do it.  The triangle is only in LA as long as Phil Jackson is in LA - if that - and talent is talent...and Kidd is A LOT of talent.  The going thought is that whichever team gets the most talented player wins in a trade.  If that's the case, LA wins if they get Kidd - even if it costs them Bynum.

Awesome assessment!

Payton did gripe ALOT about how limiting the triangle was for a PG who had been use to running alot of screens and having the room to be more creative to make passes.  With the way the spacing and movement works in the triangle leaves very little room to create ala Kidd/Payton/Stockton.  While they all are excellent passers the triangle limits the amount of time they can be excellent passers.  One would even argue that point guards who have average passing abilities thrive because they are not asked to do as much by themselves.  Almost as if the offense runs you and you don't run the offense in the traditional sense.

Of course it would be nice to have a PG like Kidd regardless I still don't think it is worth giving up Bynum.  Kwame I could deal with since the Lakers have Chris Mihm for next season.  Also, don't forget Shamond Williams and Aaron Mckie both have expiring contracts.  I thought the Lakers would include them in a deal.

Kobe for Fabs is a no brainer.  You go with the euro guy.  I know he hasn't proven much yet but it is 1000% all Pop's fault.  If he just ran every single play for Fabs he would score 30 points a game too. 

[Joe Vancil]

Actually, Stockton would thrive in the triangle, since it would allow him to use his superior SHOOTING ability.  Kidd and Payton would be more limited.

You see, you're looking for a Jeff Hornacek kind of point guard rather than a Brevin Knight type of one when you're talking about the triangle.  An average two-guard who can get the ball up the court against a press with a good outside shot becomes a great triangle point-guard, and a great pass-first point guard with a so-so outside shot becomes an awful triangle point guard.

I'm often surprised by the fact that the Jackson/Lakers dumped Derek Harper (although, in fairness, it was for Celestand, with Harper retiring upon trade) when Jackson got there.  Harper would have been the ultimate in triangle point guard - good outside shot, good defender, better-than-average rebounder, good size.

[msc]

I'm hearing various rumors the past few days and they're obviously heating up today.  I don't agree with them, but the thought is that Thorn wants to free up cap space so he's looking at taking on expiring contracts.  The Lakers could package Mihm (3mil), McKie (2mil) and Williams (1.9mil) who all have expiring contracts along with Kwame who will make 8.9 mil and 9mil over the next two years.  This would give Thorn both expiring contracts and size. 

Personally, I'd like to get Kidd, but don't want to give up any core young guys like Bynum, Farmar, Walton or Odom.  If Thorn truly wants to free up space to rebuild and will accept a deal like the one rumored above, I say pull the trigger.  If not, I don't think you give up young guys will loads of potential like Bynum and Farmar for an aging Kidd. 

[Laker Fan]

That's an ideal scenario MSC, it would be awsome if that is all Thorn wanted to do, alas, I doubt such is the case however.

The more I think about it, the less I like the thought of giving up Bynum, Farmar I could live with, Bynum would be awfully steep. I certainly can't imagine Odom being in the cards, but if I had to chose him or Bynum, hmmm... tough one there.

Has anyone heard what a 3 way deal involving Portland might entail?

[JoMal]

By Marc Stein
ESPN.com

One of the more interesting scenarios I heard Tuesday came from my ESPN colleague Ric Bucher, who reported on NBA Coast to Coast and SportsCenter that the Lakers recently had a deal in place to acquire Mike Bibby from Sacramento before Kings owners Joe and Gavin Maloof vetoed it, unable to stomach the thought of helping their playoff rivals of yesteryear.

Had that deal gone down, there would be no Kidd-to-the-Lakers talk.

That talk, as of this morning, is just that and will remain so because the Lakers won't include Bynum, the only option from the LA team the Nets are really interested in acquiring.