Author Topic: Just to beat Skander to the punch....  (Read 3413 times)

Offline Skandery

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Re: Just to beat Skander to the punch....
« Reply #15 on: January 11, 2007, 11:40:19 AM »
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Say what you want about preparing yourself by playing good teams, BUT YOU CAN'T WIN IT IF YOU DON'T PLAY IN IT.


What is so hard to understand about this?  This is where the 5 at-large bids (under a 16 team playoff system) comes into play.  After the 11 conference champs, you have 5 at-large bids (that are going to come from the Power Conferences of course) and GUESS WHAT, the selection committee will go by TADA strength of schedule.  This is easy, Ziggy.  If a team wants to schedule a bunch of cupcakes, gambling they'll win their conference championship, they risk not getting in should they have a couple losses and an identical record to another school that didn't schedule a bunch of cupcakes.  The at-large bids maintains the integrity of the regular season and keeps teams from scheduling cupcakes.   

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The 12-0 team gets in, and there are still slots available, so the 11-1 gets in as well.  Play a Conference championship game and now you have a 13-0 team and an 11-2 team.

Why wouldn't the 11-2 team get consideration for an at-large bid since at least the conference championship was a quality loss.  If that other 11-1 team lost to say Indiana or UL-Monroe, your not getting in before that 11-2 team.  Plus this is also correctable.  The NCAA doesn't have to force conferencesto schedule a conference championship, but it can force all teams in Division 1 to play the same number of games to you're not deciding between 11-1 team and an 11-2 team.  What would the other team have done had they had one more game?  And was that game a quality win, a quality loss?  I've always hated the fact that different teams play a different number of games.  I hate it in NCAA basketball, too. 

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INFERIOR TEAMS CAN GET IN BY PLAYING CUPCAKES, SO LETS PLAY CUPCAKES.  The difference between you and me is you want to convince the world that you are fair when you really aren't.  I am under no such illusion.

Ziggy, had Boise State (who you keep forgetting to mention DID BEAT THE OKLAHOMA SOONERS, something I'd wager you would've NEVER predicted in 10 lifetimes even though you KNOW this team and this area BETTER THAN ANYONE) scheduled an Oregon in a non-conference game and beat them, you honestly think the BCS gives them a better shake.  I don't think so, not in 10 lifetimes.  The argument would be, well all you're conference games were cupcakes, right?  Under the playoff system, ONLY conference champs get in and the 5 at-large bids.  So if you don't plan on winning your conference if any of the mid-majors even want a sniff at one of those bids, they're going to have to schedule very tough non-conference games (that is if they can even get the better schools to accept a game since it takes away there chance at a bid should they *gasp* lose or barely win).  Remember Ziggy, a conference championship and a great record on a tough schedule is the ONLY THING that gets you in, not purely wins and losses as your suggesting.  If Boise State goes 12-0 and Hawaii goes 11-1 losing in the WAC championship, Hawaii is probably F**KED!  Then Joe and Me and all us self-righteous whiners wouldn't mind because Hawaii DID IN FACT LOSE. 

The cold hard fact is every single year you'll have 11 of 16 teams from the power conferences, 6 champs and all 5 at-large bids so your still getting your Power Conference domination.  And the integrity of the regular season is maintained because not only do you want to get in, you want the highest possible seed to play a cupcake conference champ in the first round.  I mean do you want the 5th seed and a matchup with 12 (a cupcake conference champ ala Boise State) or the 6th seed and a matchup with 11 (an at-large bid like Louisville or Wisconsin) 

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Are BSU, Troy, MTennS, CMichU, UNewMex going to now be able to afford new stadiums, new indoor practice facilities, lots of alumni money to build a great program?

Right Ziggy, much better to keep the system as is, meaning most all of the money remains in the Power Conferences further widening the gap between the mid-majors and the Power schools.  They're not good, they're never going to be good, so let's not even try.  I'll tell you what if that's what the majority of people think than re-structure Division I football to include those 6 conferences and be done with it.  If you're never, ever, EVER going to give a mid-major a chance than why continue the ruse.  Under the system we have, after Boise State has say 7 or 8 successful seasons, they'll want to move up to one of the Power Conferences since the system will never think they're good enough in the WAC - NO MATTER WHAT THEY DO AND HOW LONG THEY DO IT.

Under the playoff system, I STILL argue that the chance for a mid-major to have a shot at the national title means better recruitment for the mid-majors, okay so maybe they'll never draw the studliest of all studly HS players, but the next tier.  This spreads the talent around Division I (ALL OF IT) instead of just 6 of the 11 conferences and means better competition all the way around and the chance for some mid-major programs to truly transcend.  Much like say, Gonzaga (a mid-major) has done in basketball.  Had basketball been run the way the fascists run football, the Gonzagas, the St. Joe's, the Temple's are never relevant on a national scale, EVER!! 

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Who won the NBDL title last year?  Who won the CBA last year?  Who won the Euro-League title last year?  Who won the Spanish league title last year?  Should all of those teams play the NBA Champ to decide on the "TRUE WORLD CHAMPIONS"?

Here's a crazy idea.  Why don't we try discussing apples with apples.

Ball State University and Ohio State University are in the SAME EXACT LEAGUE (DIVISION I).  Benetton Treviso does NOT play in the SAME LEAGUE as the San Antonio Spurs (last I checked). 

If you're going to think of mid-major schools as the difference between an NBDL team and an NBA team, than stop the ruse and kick all of the mid-major conferences down to their own division.  Mr. Nice Recruiter guy with the corny, red, Ball State cap on his head, sittin' in your Mama's living room drinkin' coffee CAN NOT EVER look you in the eye and say, "Son, come play for us, you'll have a chance at winning the championship".  I mean Tulane went undefeated in 98 and didn't even get a FREAKIN' INVITE to ANY OF THE MAJOR BOWLS.  Same with Marshall in 99, had the NCAA treated those schools with a measure of dignity, their next recruiting class might've been better than it was.  As it is, Tulane's coach had to sit on Vince Young's Mama's couch and say, "We went undefeated last year winning our conference championship and won our bowl game." 

Vince Young replied, "Yeah!  What bowl was that?" 

Coach, "Um, errr, the Liberty Bowl". 

Young, "uh-huh".

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When was the last time a mid-major won in the NCAA BBAll tourney?

When was the last time a mid-major basketball team had a transcendent, memorable season and been told by the NCAA, "You don't have the chance to play for the championship, not now, NOT EVER!!"

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So BSU over OU is really all about Tostito's

To those kids on the team, to the fans, to the coaches, that game is about football.  To Jim Delaney and Tom Hanson and the CEO of Tostito's, and all the people that collude to maintain an imbalanced system and a complete farce of an amateur sports league, that game is about MONEY, Money, money, money, money, money, money, money, money, money, money. 

With a controversy in 8 of the 10 years since the existence of the BCS system, its apparent to pretty much everybody from the liberal nannies to the seasoned sports journalists, College Football is a complete joke, equality non-existant, and there's too much money being made by people who could give 2 sh*ts about College Football for it to ever change.   
« Last Edit: January 11, 2007, 11:51:19 AM by Skandery »
"But guys like us, we don't pay attention to the polls. We know that polls are just a collection of statistics that reflect what people are thinking in 'reality'. And reality has a well-known liberal bias."

Offline ziggy

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Joe, Skander et al
« Reply #16 on: January 11, 2007, 02:56:19 PM »
OK I am not a big fan of the BCS, I just wanted to engage in a good argument. :o  I knew I would never change your minds, because you don't want to change your minds.

My biggest points here are

1.)  Save me the "we are here to save the Boise State's of the world, from the evil greedy Big 6 Corporate Robber Barons".  YOU ARE NOT, and neither is anyone else who is supporting a playoff.  Read BSU's reaction to the idea that they some how got screwed in this.  They don't, I don't think they did, and you are just using them, because you hate the status quo.  BSU came out of this season just fine, in fact better than they ever would have under your proposal.

2.)  Save me the BS about how the big 6 are raping the mid-majors of all the money, in fact save me all the GARBAGE about the money, money, money, money.  Yours and every other playoff proposal does not and will not assure that money is spread more equitably than it is now.  I will take the bet from anyone here, that say in 5 years after we have your beautiful playoff system, that we will we never again hear how the big conferences are not ripping off the mid-majors, and getting all the money, and we will now live in a big happy equal world.  AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN, SO SAVE THE PLATITUDES ABOUT HOW MONEY IS CORRUPTING EVERYTHING.  The money brings us the best games.

3.)  After having seen BSU demolish a 10-4 Oregon State team two straight seasons, and watch OSU beat U of O, and see U of O play with (can't say beat) Oklahoma, I bet I am the ONLY PERSON here who did believe that BSU could not only play with, but beat Oklahoma.
A third-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the majority. A second-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the minority. A first-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking.

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AA Mil

Offline Skandery

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I love a good argument, too
« Reply #17 on: January 11, 2007, 05:27:26 PM »
If you think I'm under the delusion that Delaney grows angel's wings and all of a sudden we have a playoff system for college football that everything will be strawberries and cream, oh so happy and fair and nice.  I'm not.  The rich and powerful always find ways to garner more money and power in whatever system is in place.  Delaney, himself, readily admits that college football a playoff system will enlarge the pie in excess of 50 million dollars more money than the current bowl system but, as Wetzel puts it, he will no longer have complete control of the knife that cuts the slices.  All I'm hoping for is a fair shake for everyone.

I want San Jose State to have the same shot at winning the national championship that USC has.  Just like last year in the tourney, Bucknell had the same shot as Duke. 

I'm not masquerading around pretending to bleed blue and orange.  I didn't even know Boise State's mascot before 2 weeks ago.  I also don't even follow College Football all that much.  Even so, a half-hearted, mostly un-interested, fan like myself sees the system perpetrated as just wrong.  Any angle you come at it, its just wrong; and I'll argue to change the system rather than succumbing to it because "ah well, that's been the tradition". :-[

Is a playoff system perfect. NO

Is a playoff system better. YES   
"But guys like us, we don't pay attention to the polls. We know that polls are just a collection of statistics that reflect what people are thinking in 'reality'. And reality has a well-known liberal bias."