Afghanis man prosecuted for turning to Christ?

[rickortreat]

I wonder how many of you have heard about this and what you thought.  Personally, I thought all that fighting against the Taliban would have gotten rid of this type of nonsense in Afghani law, but apparently not.

It is illegal in Afghanistan for a man to convert from Islam to Christianity.  Even if he is let go, clerics in the country are calling for the man's death.

IMO, by definition, we are all God's children, and he has given us our sight and reason, to excercise our free will.  Since he has given us free will, who has the right to take that from us, woudn't such a man be considered evil for interfering?

The clerics calling for this man's death are not holy men, they are fools masquerading as men, drunk on the power of being religious leaders.

It bothers me that the US can't articlate a postion like this, to demonstrate that we respect religion because we respect infdividual rights and freedom of choice.  If anything distingusihes us from many of these countries, it is this concept of freedom, and it is a very powerful concept indeed.

This is an example of why Bush isn't a leader.  A leader leads through ideas and Bush can't articuate them.   He hasn't gotten the US behind the wars in Iraq or Aghhanistan or explained what we're doing there.  (Not that I agree with our being there, but if the country is going to be commited to war the people have to be motivated.)

And, once we are in a fight, we should cling to our values because that is what we really are fighting for.  

[Ted]

This is an example of why Bush isn't a leader.

It seems you have the same position on this man's life as most of America and most in government. I haven't heard many people, even the Bush haters, saying this guy's plight had anything to do with Bush's leadership. But I may have misunderstood you.

[rickortreat]

Yes, you definitely missunderstood me if you think I meant that Bush was the reason this man is being persecuted for changeing his religion.

What I meant to say was that Bush should be saying something about this since it is the whole point of Americans being in those countries.  We're trying to stablize them and help their societies reestablish themselves so they are functional and can keep terrorists from taking over their countries.

We're trying to bring them rule of law and respect for the rights of individuals as oppossed to rule by force.

I think it's pathetic that the one PR thing Bush could do to help this cause, he can't take advantage of.  A real leader would.

The clerics in Afghanistan are calling for the man to be killed, even if the legal system sets him free.  If you believe in religious freedom, you want to strengthen that legal system and diminish the power of the clerics.

Imagine what would happen if people in these countries knew about these concepts of freedom!  Some would hate them, because they use religion as means to coerce and control people.  When the religious don't kill on command, these people start to loose power.  

When the individual is seen as having the right to choose how to live and who to associate with, he becomes much freer than one who is born into a society where institutions are waiting to turn the children into followers as oppossed to thinkers.  I think that's a very powerful message for Bush to send.

I hope that's clearer.

[Ted]

WHEELING, W.Va. — Initially, the case of convert Abdul Rahman attracted the attention of Christian groups, then it reached the radar of the State Department. Now, President Bush has weighed in on the case, saying he is "deeply troubled" that the Afghan man could face death for his religious decision.

Rahman, 41, a medical worker, converted from Islam to Christianity 16 years ago, a fact that came out publicly during a civil custody case between him and his wife in front of local authorities. The authorities charged him with rejecting Islam, a crime under the country's Shar'ia-based law. The penalty, if guilty, is death.

That's a penalty that concerns Bush, who said in a speech Wednesday that the young democracy in Afghanistan shouldn't be limiting the ability of its citizens to worship.

"We expect them to honor the universal principle of freedom," Bush said during a town hall meeting in Wheeling, W. Va. "It is deeply troubling that a country we helped liberate would hold a person to account because they chose a particular religion over another.

"I'm troubled when I hear, deeply troubled when I hear, the fact that a person who converted away from Islam may be held to account. That's not the universal application of the values that I talked about. I look forward to working with the government of that country to make sure that people are protected in their capacity to worship," he continued.

I hate doing this because it brands me as blind Bush supporter. But he did say what you would have liked him to say, although not as eloquently as you might have.

I think these statements, and the stronger statements made by Condy Rice have made a difference in this man's fate. I'm glad that people in government on both sides of the aisle came out strong in support of this man's freedom. The sad thing is that there have supposedly been 100 similar cases in Muslim countries already this year.

[Ted]

Rahman, 41, a medical worker, converted from Islam to Christianity 16 years ago, a fact that came out publicly during a civil custody case between him and his wife in front of local authorities. The authorities charged him with rejecting Islam, a crime under the country's Shar'ia-based law. The penalty, if guilty, is death.

That's the difference between Islam and Western societies. If you want to get custody of your kids in the Middle East, accuse your ex of Christianity. If you want to do it in the West, accuse your ex of sexual abuse on your kids.

[rickortreat]

Well, that's the whole thing Ted, he's not a strong communicator and not a great leader.  I for one don't like his policies at at all, but I might feel better about them if he was able to explain why what we're doing there is so important.

I don't think the people in Iraq or Afghanistan understand what we mean by freedom or individual rights. I suspect there are quite a few countries where people don't have the rights we do, or appreciate their value.

If anything can turn the situation around in those places, it is our ability to explain what we stand for and what we hope to help them accomplish in their own countries. Especially in Iraq, they have an opportunity to come together and rule based on popular vote and settle their differences without resorting to violence.  Hopefully more people would rather live than die!  

[WayOutWest]

Rick

Bush is a big dummy.  His track record and public speaking pretty make it pretty obvious that he's a bit of a tard.

This is a perfect example of the Bush administrations MO, muddy the waters and hope people get bored and lose interest.  The guy got off on a technicality, that is complete bull shyte.  This issue should have been taken on and settle once and for all, but the Bush administration will just follow the same old game plan, delay and avoid.  We're in there under the gise if freedom, anyone with a half a brain will realize that's bull shyte, freedom doesn't even make the top 5 reasons for being there.

In the end all this proves is there is no God, a real God would have struck Bush down years ago.  

[JoMal]

God give me strength.

 

[rickortreat]

In the end all this proves is there is no God, a real God would have struck Bush down years ago.

Please don't make the mistake of assuming a lack of action means endorsement.


God obviously permits evil and attrocities to occure here, and has since the begging of life on this planet.  Suffering is inherent in this tupe of existance and death is inveitable for all.

There are a number of possiblities which would explain such a condition and not exclude the possibility of the existance of a Supreme Being.  I would posit that the only thing sacred to God is free will, and that each is free to act according to his/her will ostensibly to enable each to become more developed and more in harmony with God's creation.

It might mean that there is no god, but I have some subjective evidence to the contrary.  There is much more to existance than what most of us see or are aware of.  

[Ted]

Please don't make the mistake of assuming a lack of action means endorsement.


God obviously permits evil and attrocities to occure here, and has since the begging of life on this planet.  Suffering is inherent in this tupe of existance and death is inveitable for all.

There are a number of possiblities which would explain such a condition and not exclude the possibility of the existance of a Supreme Being.  I would posit that the only thing sacred to God is free will, and that each is free to act according to his/her will ostensibly to enable each to become more developed and more in harmony with God's creation.

It might mean that there is no god, but I have some subjective evidence to the contrary.  There is much more to existance than what most of us see or are aware of.

Wow, nice post Rick. I agree with you 100 percent.

[God]

I agree, Rick.  Nice post.


Oops.  Was that my "out loud" voice?

 

[Doubting Thomas]

I agree, Rick.  Nice post.


Oops.  Was that my "out loud" voice?

Hey, God, while we have your attention, could you answer a question that has been bugging me for some time?

Why DO you favor the prayers of one team over another to win the big championship game?

[God]

Absolutely, I do.

Then again, that whole "free will" thing just keeps getting in the way, which has messed up more championship runs that I'd care to count.  That, and of course, the corrupt officiating.

 

[Doubting Thomas]

Well, then, couldn't you, like, make the bad refs instantaneously combust if they show favoritism against your expressed wishes.

In 2002, for instance, all I saw were some of the refs kind of smoldering in the fourth quarter of the sixth game of the Western Conference Championship series. I was expecting at least a severe case of athelete's foor to smite them, or something. Though your curse of their first born having to look like them was well deserved, I think a little shrinkage of their groin areas would have been warranted.  

[God]

I think a little shrinkage of their groin areas would have been warranted.

I tried that!  They turned around and hired Violet Palmer afterward!