Inadvertant whistle

[Laker Fan]

My 4 cents (adjusted for inflation):

Cry all you want about LA acquiring Malone and Payton, early, late, for the minimum or not, the point is, nobody “gave” Malone and Payton to LA, LA pursued them like ANYONE ELSE HAD THE RIGHT TO DO, and Malone and Payton did what they thought was best for them. Spare me your sour grapes boys and girls, because if your teams could have pulled the trigger, we’d still be listening to you squeal. To get them for a song was just icing on the cake, tell me your teams wouldn’t have done the EXACT same thing, if you say otherwise, it is a lie and you know it.

As it is, the Spurs made a pretty good pickup in Turkoglu and they ARE NOT a brand new team as you seem to think they are, so you can spare me the we needed to gel song and dance as well, they returned enough of last years team that it simply doesn’t hold water, besides, what could any one POSSIBLY have to learn in Popovich’s offense any bloody way?!?! The Kings made a great addition with Miller, it allows Divac to rest his old legs and as a result, he will be fresh for the postseason, too bad their defense, or lack thereof, may come back to bite them in the end. The Timberwolves made the best pick up of all IMO, Cassell is nails, add that puke Sprewell and this team looks like world-beaters.

So what do we have? A Western Conference that had the big 4 make some serious effort to improve and LA is taking flak because they signed the best deal first and for less money? Give me just a small break!!! IMO, Minnesota probably made the best deal overall as it is more long term. I guarantee you, if Duncan and take your pick any other ONE starter in San Antonio had missed the number of games LA’s Malone, Shaq, and Bryant had missed, they would be sub .500 right now and wondering what the heck went wrong. You take Garnett, and either Sprewell or Cassell out for the same time and ditto, sub .500. The only team with close to the depth to overcome the staggering injuries LA has had to endure and probably would still be competitive is Sacramento, and their style of play would really suffer if Peja and Bibby were out. How many games did LA play where they were putting ONE starter on the floor? Hmmmm? And they are still within striking distance? I suppose if they lose it means there is no conspiracy, but if they win, the refs did what they were supposed to do. That is one of the most genuinely STUPIDEST rationales I have ever heard, blatant hypocrisy at its ugliest and proves that reason and logic is beyond the grasp of some minds.

[Reality]

I haven't read any reports after the fact, I watched the game and even the announcers where going on and on about the refs calling goal tending because Kobe clearly touched the ball on the rim but it was below the rim and Kobe might have been the one to push the ball into the rim.  

Can't tell without seeing it again.

 

do you still want to see a tape?


 

[spursfan101]

You know the NBA suspended the refereee for 3 games because of his mistake, right?

[Randy]

You know the NBA suspended the refereee for 3 games because of his mistake, right?

I'm so surprised that everyone continues to get this so wrong.  It obviously didn't touch the rim because PJ said so -- if you guys would just listen to the Zenmeister, you would have these confliction difficulties.   B)  

[Guest_JoMal]

So....this is what it must be like on FanHome trying to convey logic to the "maturely challenged".

Which team got the biggest "gift" from the draff? From free agent signings? From trades?

The draft is a crapshoot...especially AFTER the ping pong balls drop. There are few sure-thing rookies out there to choose from and if you are lucky enough to get one, then good luck in hanging on to the guy, or both Kobe and Shaq would be leading the Hornets and Magic in scoring instead.

Free agents can do whatever they want to do. If Malone and Payton both decided that, at this point in their careers, a ring was more important then money, can anyone seriously blame them, or fault the Lakers for their generosity? That they both went to the team with a recent history of winning instead of trying to be the piece to put a team on the verge over the top actually speaks volumes about Gary and Karl - neither feels they the type of players who can do that. They went to a team that already HAD those components in place. What they did NOT expect was the cracks in the Laker franchise becoming so pronounced so soon. Unless they win that ring, these guys are both going to think this was a huge mistake.

As for trades, since it takes two to tango, and later it appears that one team lost the poker hand, I think this is the best indicator of true franchise talent in management.

KINGS WIN, KINGS WIN!!!  

[Randy]

So....this is what it must be like on FanHome trying to convey logic to the "maturely challenged".

Which team got the biggest "gift" from the draff? From free agent signings? From trades?

The draft is a crapshoot...especially AFTER the ping pong balls drop. There are few sure-thing rookies out there to choose from and if you are lucky enough to get one, then good luck in hanging on to the guy, or both Kobe and Shaq would be leading the Hornets and Magic in scoring instead.

Free agents can do whatever they want to do. If Malone and Payton both decided that, at this point in their careers, a ring was more important then money, can anyone seriously blame them, or fault the Lakers for their generosity? That they both went to the team with a recent history of winning instead of trying to be the piece to put a team on the verge over the top actually speaks volumes about Gary and Karl - neither feels they the type of players who can do that. They went to a team that already HAD those components in place. What they did NOT expect was the cracks in the Laker franchise becoming so pronounced so soon. Unless they win that ring, these guys are both going to think this was a huge mistake.

As for trades, since it takes two to tango, and later it appears that one team lost the poker hand, I think this is the best indicator of true franchise talent in management.

KINGS WIN, KINGS WIN!!!

Free agents can do whatever they want to do. If Malone and Payton both decided that, at this point in their careers, a ring was more important then money, can anyone seriously blame them, or fault the Lakers for their generosity? That they both went to the team with a recent history of winning instead of trying to be the piece to put a team on the verge over the top actually speaks volumes about Gary and Karl - neither feels they the type of players who can do that. They went to a team that already HAD those components in place. What they did NOT expect was the cracks in the Laker franchise becoming so pronounced so soon. Unless they win that ring, these guys are both going to think this was a huge mistake.

I think you miss one aspect in your assessment -- personalities and friendship.  This had a lot to do with Malone and GP's relationship with Shaq -- not with Kobe, but with Shaq.  GP has always wanted to play with a dominant center -- Malone and Shaq are good friends.  I do agree that if they don't win a title that they are going to feel that this was a huge mistake.  They didn't buy into all the soap opera this year -- sure, LA's always been somewhat of a soap opera but with Kobe's legal problems and the widened fissure in relationships, it's definately more than Malone and GP thought they were getting into.  

[Reality]

My 4 cents (adjusted for inflation):

nobody “gave” Malone and Payton to LA, LA pursued them like ANYONE ELSE HAD THE RIGHT TO DO, and Malone and Payton did what they thought was best for them. Spare me your sour grapes boys and girls, because if your teams could have pulled the trigger, we’d still be listening to you squeal. To get them for a song was just icing on the cake, tell me your teams wouldn’t have done the EXACT same thing, if you say otherwise, it is a lie and you know it.

if Duncan and take your pick any other ONE starter in San Antonio had missed the number of games LA’s Malone, Shaq, and Bryant had missed, they would be sub .500 right now and wondering what the heck went wrong. You take Garnett, and either Sprewell or Cassell out for the same time and ditto, sub .500.

LA pursued GP and Malone.     Kupcake picked up the phone call that Payton initiated and said yes we'll take you for the minumum.  We'll also accept your talking Malone into coming.  For the minimum.
  That you are so impressed with the work ethic of that Laker acquisition is well, you.  The rest including 98% of knowledgable Laker hoopsters (it's not an oxymoron, they do exist) consider it a gift.
  As to wanting Malone, i never want that clown on my team.  Pontificate away how you view his cheapshots, you never did weigh in on that aspect.  Will you do that for us now?  A cheapshot that could help lead to a Laker win.  Oh do tell us your view on that.
  As for the Lakers record, do indeed post us the stats of record when ONE Laker is out, that being your center.

I'm lookin at the man, in the mirror......

[Randy]

My 4 cents (adjusted for inflation):

nobody “gave” Malone and Payton to LA, LA pursued them like ANYONE ELSE HAD THE RIGHT TO DO, and Malone and Payton did what they thought was best for them. Spare me your sour grapes boys and girls, because if your teams could have pulled the trigger, we’d still be listening to you squeal. To get them for a song was just icing on the cake, tell me your teams wouldn’t have done the EXACT same thing, if you say otherwise, it is a lie and you know it.

if Duncan and take your pick any other ONE starter in San Antonio had missed the number of games LA’s Malone, Shaq, and Bryant had missed, they would be sub .500 right now and wondering what the heck went wrong. You take Garnett, and either Sprewell or Cassell out for the same time and ditto, sub .500.

LA pursued GP and Malone.     Kupcake picked up the phone call the Payton initiated and said yes we'll take you for the minumum.  We'll also accept your talking Malone into coming.  For the minimum.
  That you are so impressed with the work ethic of that Laker acquisition is well, you.  The rest including 98% of knowledgable Laker hoopsters (it's not an oxymoron, they do exist) consider it a gift.
  As to wanting Malone, i never want that clown on my team.  Pontificate away how you view his cheapshots, you never did weigh in on that aspect.  Will you do that for us now?  A cheapshot that could help lead to a Laker win.  Oh do tell us your view on that.
  As for the Lakers record, do indeed post us the stats of record when ONE Laker is out, that being your center.

I'm lookin at the man, in the mirror......

I had no idea you were such a Michael Jackson fan -- and as to your quote:

I'm lookin at the man, in the mirror......

although I do have to wonder how often you do that right after eating!   B)

As to wanting Malone, i never want that clown on my team. Pontificate away how you view his cheapshots, you never did weigh in on that aspect. Will you do that for us now? A cheapshot that could help lead to a Laker win. Oh do tell us your view on that.
As for the Lakers record, do indeed post us the stats of record when ONE Laker is out, that being your center.

Malone has never been anything but a cheap artist -- a gifted one at that and a great player (he revolutionized the PF position) but I still don't like him, even after donning the purple and gold.  But, as for your comments about Malone, one would question why you never took a stand against Danny Ferry or the incredible cheapshots taken by Bowen.  There have been a lot of players that I haven't liked that have played for the Lakers -- I was disgusted when the Lakers signed Rodman, Rider -- I can't stand anything about those guys.  I will never be a fan of Malone, no matter what team he is one.  He IS a great basketball player -- even at this stage in his life but I still don't like him.  I like his work ethic, however, I wish he could teach it to Shaq (it's one of my biggest problems with Shaq -- that and his pride).  The Lakers have had other players who didn't mind playing dirty -- Rick Fox has shown that a lot -- I prefer players who play hard but strive to stay clean (Michael Cooper, AC Green, Kurt Rambis, Robert Horry).  There are a lot of players like that who I admire that aren't Lakers -- Rose is one of them, Doug Christie (his defensive abilities, not his wimpy attitude off the court), etc.).

[Reality]

Randy,

1st things 1st.  You had asked me if i recall that i had stated Turkey was a "gift" for Pop.  Absolutely i did.  Posted that in the context of all the time wasted on Jouauna Kidd and the RashaStiff deal 6 year 48 mil or whatever he overspent, Turkey indeed as a very late signing was a gift.  Was not initiated by Pop either, it was Larry Bird who took the bull by the horns and started moving Brad Miller when he saw he was gonna bolt for free.
Now if you make Turkey initiate a call to the G.M. to join the World Champs Spurs for the absolute minimal $$ and have him sign at the same early time that Payton (and shortly thereafter Malone did), we can then compare the context of the term "gift".  Woops not yet.  Turk is only one player.  That he is as good as or better then Payton or Malone I'm fine with.  But now we must add a second player with all the same perameters.  Surely that is what the Lakers got and surely we want this to be fair, no?  
  And please chill out on asking me to mark my words carefully or whatever it was I said, as if i would have a problem owning up to what i previously said.  Wrong guy(s).  Feel free to always "get" me on what i previously posted.

Now as to Bowen what "stand" have i taken?  When last weeks electric slide was done to Vince Carter i certainly posted it was done on purpose.  As to intent to hurt I don't know that you can say Bowen intended to hurt Carter as much as he was intending to mess up his shot.  Nonetheless I think it was very cheap.  Still doesn't even compare to the MailCheaps repeatedly cowardly total intent to hurt when opposing players have had no chance to defend themselves as he does it when they are not looking or even suspecting.  On my "89 year old man struck by Malone" parody Jomal followed up some Laker twist-hate posts by commented very thoroughly and succinctly.  Nary a response from the two stone throwers.  Even westkoast would only comment to say i needed to change my style and make it like Jomals.  Hmmph. <_<   Koast i know you love me just as i am.
  So sure Randy i agree with you Malone has shown tons of game while being a cheapie thruout.  An intent to injure cheapie.
Ferry I'd have to see clips, i honestly have not seen enough of him or I've missed his cheapies.  And Bowen while I've seen him push and shove I've never seen him go Malone on people.  The electric slide, while not Maloneish is still going way too far down that Malone path tho, i want it stopped.  Intended or not it hurt Carter.
  As for Michael Jackson if you did not see the url i posted leading to a bunch of comic writers thruout US newspapers drawings and captions please do so.  It's great.

[Randy]

Now as to Bowen what "stand" have i taken? When last weeks electric slide was done to Vince Carter i certainly posted it was done on purpose. As to intent to hurt I don't know that you can say Bowen intended to hurt Carter as much as he was intending to mess up his shot. Nonetheless I think it was very cheap. Still doesn't even compare to the MailCheaps repeatedly cowardly total intent to hurt when opposing players have had no chance to defend themselves as he does it when they are not looking or even suspecting. On my "89 year old man struck by Malone" parody Jomal followed up some Laker twist-hate posts by commented very thoroughly and succinctly. Nary a response from the two stone throwers. Even westkoast would only comment to say i needed to change my style and make it like Jomals. Hmmph.  Koast i know you love me just as i am.
So sure Randy i agree with you Malone has shown tons of game while being a cheapie thruout. An intent to injure cheapie.

The problem with stating that Bowen was intending to "mess up his (VC's) shot" is that what he did was AFTER the shot had already taken place -- Bowen's move had ZERO chance of messing up VC's shot at all -- go back and watch it.  VC is already in the air when Bowen moves his foot -- then he moves it again (and has to move his body to do so) so that it slides under Bowen's feet.  Was Bowen intending to injury VC?  One can only guess because only Bowen knows for sure.  But what is obvious is that Bowen not only went out of his way -- but had to move to make this possible.  When a player does something uncalled for and unnecessary and that move hurts another player, he should be made responsible for it.  
As for Malone, I've always thought of him as a cheapshot artist but I've never thought of him as a coward -- and that's even in spite of years of not liking him (and I still don't like him, even if he is on my team).  I have always respected Malone's game (except, of course, of the dirty play) but I have never liked him.