Author Topic: does anybody blame tim duncan for our  (Read 2752 times)

Offline SPURSX3

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does anybody blame tim duncan for our
« on: September 01, 2004, 08:52:44 AM »
I for one am not trying to be biased but I dont see tim as the blame for our not getting a gold.  I mean he never really adjusted to the FIBA style of playing, but i mean come on, in my opinion, tim and AI are probably the only two players that SHOULD have been in the olympics to begin with, the rest of the team was "last resort".  I am not sad about losing to argentina, maybe becuase their are two spurs on that team, but I know that the other teams we played against were just getting better all around, so i dont think i was "shocked" that we lost.  what do you guys think about our olympic team?  does the NBA need to change it's style to more international play?   :huh:  
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Offline spursfan101

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does anybody blame tim duncan for our
« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2004, 08:56:18 AM »
Tim has said he is 95% sure he isn't coming back to the Dream Team in 4 years.
Paul

Offline Derek Bodner

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does anybody blame tim duncan for our
« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2004, 08:57:54 AM »
Tim should take some blame, but mainly for not adjusting to the officiating.

Offline westkoast

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does anybody blame tim duncan for our
« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2004, 09:58:31 AM »
Whether you think so or not  since hes the best player on the squad he will shoulder plenty of blame.   That doesn't mean I think its his fault why the US team didnt win.  If he had more space to operate it would have been a different story.  He did his job.  He created space for jump shooters, he rebounded, and he scored in the post.  
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Offline Reality

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« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2004, 11:28:57 AM »
1/2 of the calls he perhaps could have adjusted.  In the Argentine and Bronze game he was called for nothing.  He would have been a factor in the Arg game, altho Team Millionaire did plenty to botch the game outside of Duncan.

I'm sure his attitude on the 95% comment is why bother attempting to play if the refs refuse to let him play.  A stat was ran that he was whistled every 7 minutes of play.  That was before he got several more bogus calls.  In the NBA he gets whistled every 15 minutes.  DK what the stats are (were) when he played the Marketing Machine.

Offline westkoast

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does anybody blame tim duncan for our
« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2004, 11:32:59 AM »
Quote
1/2 of the calls he perhaps could have adjusted.  In the Argentine and Bronze game he was called for nothing.  He would have been a factor in the Arg game, altho Team Millionaire did plenty to botch the game outside of Duncan.

I'm sure his attitude on the 95% comment is why bother attempting to play if the refs refuse to let him play.  A stat was ran that he was whistled every 7 minutes of play.  That was before he got several more bogus calls.  In the NBA he gets whistled every 15 minutes.  DK what the stats are (were) when he played the Marketing Machine.
Good thing Duncan isnt a Laker or you would have "missed" those bs calls against him in Athens.  Alot of those are similar to some of the calls the refs made on the Lakers.

Since we are requesting stats...what was the interval at which the Lakers were being called for fouls in the finals.

edit: Lakers had 39 more fouls against them and on average got a foul called on them every minute and a half.  They played 240 minutes altogether and had 142 fouls.  Not that I expect you to see it any different, they still are Lakers  B)
« Last Edit: September 01, 2004, 11:40:08 AM by westkoast »
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Offline JoMal

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does anybody blame tim duncan for our
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2004, 11:33:43 AM »
The blame lies with putting together a team that could not adequately compete in International basketball. Lack of shooters was the main problem, but a key problem also lies with no substantial size on this team after Duncan. Other teams could collapse on Tim and know he would not be receiving any help.

 
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Offline spursfan101

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« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2004, 02:19:21 PM »
I put the blame squarely on George Bush.   :up:

Seriously, we need to get away from having an all Superstar team and allow some role players onto this squad. Look at the teams that have been successful in recent years.  Spurs with quality role players, the Pistons in the East.  We can learn a thing or two from them.
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Offline westkoast

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does anybody blame tim duncan for our
« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2004, 03:14:24 PM »
Quote
I put the blame squarely on George Bush.   :up:

Seriously, we need to get away from having an all Superstar team and allow some role players onto this squad. Look at the teams that have been successful in recent years.  Spurs with quality role players, the Pistons in the East.  We can learn a thing or two from them.
Yea maybe the Pistons will get calls like some of the foreign teams were getting.  They get it out here, dont see why they cant get it overseas.
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Offline Lurker

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does anybody blame tim duncan for our
« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2004, 08:47:02 AM »
NBA not the root of problems
by Eddie Johnson / September 1, 2004

 
THE AUTHOR:
EDDIE JOHNSON

 Played 17 years in the NBA for the Kings, Suns, SuperSonics, Hornets, Pacers, Nuggets and Rockets.
 Won the 1988-99 NBA Sixth Man Award averaging 21.5 ppg.
 NBA all-time leading scorer among players with no All-Star appearances.
 He is in his fourth year as the color analyst for the Phoenix Suns broadcasts.
 You can visit his website at www.jumpshotclub.com
 
I find it hard to believe that we actually had people in this country openly root against our Olympic basketball team. Why would people have such animosity towards the best athletes in the world? Why would Americans openly applaud when Italy wins a meaningless exhibition game? Why were they satisfied and comfortable with the fact that Puerto Rico and Lithuania beat us and then Argentina eliminated us in the semifinals?

The blame has been spread around evenly among all those involved, but I say
the problems are more deeply rooted than we think.

Let's start with the obvious – the players, Larry Brown and the Olympic selection committee.

- Players: This was not the team that we expected. But even without Shaq, Kobe, Kevin Garnett and Tracy McGrady, this squad still was capable of getting the job done. They just never jelled or found a way to play with and trust one another. When the situation got tough, they reverted to "I" instead of "We". They played hard, but not the right way. Tim Duncan was left out to dry time and time again by perimeter defenders who could not stay in front of their man, thus keeping Duncan in foul trouble.

- Larry Brown: Larry is a purist when it comes to strategy. He dislikes intentional fouls, zones and young players whom he feels do not accept his constant teaching. Because of this, Team USA played right into the European strategy throughout the tournament. They fouled to stop our fast break. We did not. They played zone thus negating the dominance of Duncan and we did not, so to take away their great outside shooting. They used their youthful energy against some tired veterans and Brown decided not to use the explosiveness of Carmelo Anthony, LeBron James and Amare Stoudemire.

- The Olympic Committee: They are only guilty of not having a good backup plan when Shaq, Kobe, Garnett and McGrady refused to travel to Athens. They went with the inexperience of Anthony, James and Stoudemire and it backfired because Brown was not in the mood to be patient and content with that. I am sure Brown would have found plenty of minutes for Michael Redd and Brent Barry. Heck, Fred Hoiberg would have gotten solid minutes. This is my suggestion for the committee in 2008: select five superstars and then have tryouts for top NBA role players to build around your stars.


I was raised in sports to always be held accountable when my team succeeded or failed. So, yes, all three entities should be held responsible. But the blame cannot start and stop there. Our basketball culture must realize that the problems are more deeply rooted. And only then will we be able to correct and improve the game that we have dominated.

Let's go with the sources of the problems:

- Parents: Parents rely too much on the advice of other people to teach their kids how to become sound basketball players. They must start to do better research and background checks on coaches, camps and personal trainers. They also must make sure that the kid understands at a young age that respect for the game is a must in order to reach their goal.


- Streetball videos: I respect the fact that these individuals have found a niche in the game to make a living, but this has become the biggest deterrent to our game right now more than anything. Watching a player bounce a ball off someone's head and then throw it in the stands instead of shooting it in the basket and getting applause is the biggest disservice to the game that I can think of. It makes my blood boil that a fancy dribble will bring fans out of their seat and not the execution of the jump shot. These tapes are big sellers among our youth. And we wonder why the Europeans have passed us by when it comes to fundamentals?

- AAU and high school coaches: AAU coaches are driven by sponsorship money from shoe companies. So recruitment of top local players is a must. The problem with this is that some AAU coaches will tell the player anything to get him to commit to their team and once there will allow him to play without the discipline and guidance needed at such a young age. This way of coaching gives too much responsibility to the player and that's why we see numerous players at the college and NBA level who do not respect authority. High schools need to do a better job of hiring coaches instead of turning teachers that have no basketball experience to adequately teach our youngsters into coaches. Combined, these two entities are not giving our youngsters the fundamental base that the Europeans have been getting for years.

- College coaches: College coaches have lost faith in the recruiting process of top players. Why? Because they feel that top players will only attend for one or two years and then leave for the NBA. They put a lot of attention into the players that they feel will take four years to develop and yet they might not ever become pro players. So, it is understandable why coaches might not want to waste numerous hours teaching a player who plans to leave after one year and with the lack of fundamentals permeating the NBA, that argument can be raised. These coaches must do a better job of teaching regardless of how many years the player stays.

- NCAA: Why won't this organization change? Why is it so difficult to understand that just an athletic scholarship is not enough these days for student-athletes to stay on campus? Especially when the NCAA is signing billion-dollar television contracts and coaches are being paid millions from schools and shoe companies. The NCAA must stop blaming the NBA for enticing underclassmen to leave and start making it appealing for players to stay at least three years by paying them a stipend so that coaches can adequately teach and prepare them for the next level.

- Players Union: The NBA Players Union must eventually give in to the age limit rule. It is obvious that teams will not set a precedent and ignore young players that have good upside when they apply for the draft, so the union must take the initiative and agree to a 20 or 21-year-old age limit. Too many veteran basketball players are losing jobs to young players who are not ready to contribute. This move will allow teams to have a better idea about how good a player will become. Instead of being 21 or 22 when teams have to extend their contracts, they would be 23-24 years old, which is a much better age to determine a player's ability.

- NBA: The NBA must do something that is totally against what put them back on top during the Magic Johnson-Larry Bird era and that continued into the Michael Jordan era – they must tone down the marketing of players based on potential and put faith in the veterans who are fundamentally sound and have proven to be professional on and off the court. Also, they need to find a system that encourages players to take better shots that raise field goal percentages, which in turn would improve scoring. During my career, if you shot below 47 percent you had a bad year. Now, 45 percent is considered very good. The one change I would encourage the league to make is to get rid of the three-point line. Yes, it is a great marketing tool, but the wrong players are taking advantage of it. Without the three-point shot, players will learn to operate in their range and use teammates to free themselves effectively. This is what the European ball player has perfected and that is why we are left wondering what happened.

Eddie Johnson is a regular contributor to HoopsHype.com


 
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rickortreat

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does anybody blame tim duncan for our
« Reply #10 on: September 05, 2004, 03:35:17 PM »
I agree with Jomal and Lurker on this one.

This team was not composed to compete in International Competition, and there was a clear anti-american bias to the officiating that this team was unable to overcome.

There was a lack of outside shooters, and not enough big men to do the rebounding. Tim Duncan was picked on by the referees, and I don't blame him for saying what he did about FIBA, in fact, I agree.

As much as I am annoyed by NBA reffing, seeing the olympics reminded me that referee's have an enormous amount of control over a game. There were so many bad calls, that the US needed a team with veterans and enough composure to overcome the blantant b.s. from the officials. The team lacked what it needed to be successful, and I blame USA basketball, and the contemptible lack of respect for international competition and the honor of representing one's country in a tournament.

The selfishness and lack of interest by Shaq, who refused to go because Larry Brown was the coach, and the absence of T-Mac, Garnett and the others is emblematic of selfishness and a lack of consideration for others that makes me ill. These guys should want to go compete in the olympics, but they don't give a crap about it. I don't think it's too much to ask NBA millionaires to take some time every four years to put on a display of talent and teamwork on the international stage. For a bunch of guys who only work nine months out of the year, their decision not to play sucks ass.

For all the criticism of Iverson, he said and did all the right things, and showed up to play. So did Timmy, but the refs wouldn't let him.