The T-Mac Saga Begins!

[Reality]

But if you are a team seeking Kobe, why give the Flamers a player in trade?

There are numerous reasons for a sign and trade.

From the Lakers standpoint:
1) They can get something in return for him.
From Kobe's standpoint:
1) It increases the maximum amount of dollars he can get.  We're not talking a small margin.  We're talking the difference between a 6 year, 98 million deal to a 7 year, 132 million deal.  For the mathematically challenged, that's 34 million kobe is giving up by trying to screw his old team.  high price.
2) It increases the number of teams Kobe can go to.  No longer do you need to find a team under the cap to trade to.  You increase your # of teams you can go to from 3 to 28.
from the other teams perspective:
1) Teams that are not under the cap, and thus not in the kobe sweepstakes, can now get him.

a sign and trade can help all parties.

And rt and i mentioned such in the other post regarding other teams pursuing Kobe.
That to up their chances it may indeed turn into a bidding war and thus non Laker teams will offer player(s) for Kobe.

Does that mean they have to?  No

Can you see the possibility of NO teams offering players?
Who would that help the most?  
Other teams.

Who would that not help the most?
The Lakers.

Can you see that as a possibility even if it does not eventually happen that way?
And is that a bad thing to you?

[Derek Bodner]

Does that mean they have to? No

For every team not under the cap, they DO have to.

So then Kobe has to make the choice.  Does he want to go to one of those 3 teams for 32 million less or a team of his choice for 32 million more.

teams not under the cap DO NOT have any choice but to persue a sign and trade.  So if Kobe wants to go to one of these teams, without taking the MLE, he DOES have to try to work things out.

Everything's in Kobe's hands.  The teams have no say until he decides who he wants to go to.

[WayOutWest]

Lets see we post why should another team give the Lakers players, why not instead hold out and simply sign him as a FA.  You post because of the sign n trade Kobme could get more money and state that is the only course in which Kobme will be traded.  (As if other teams give a rats that Kobme gets max.)  Kupchake says he won't do a sign n trade.

There is alot of talk about what the Lakers WILL get if they sign and trade Kobe.  Kobe doesn't have to do the Lakers any favors and he can just walk away.  The middleground would be the Lakers might have to sign and trade Kobe to a team Kobe wants to goto if Kobe has decided not to stay in L.A.  That being the case Kobe will most likely want to goto a contender.  SA, HOU, INDY, SAC and DAL.  On the outside PHX, NJ, PHL, GRIZ and MINY.  What can the Lakers hope to get in return from those teams?

Try and keep up kido!

[Joe Vancil]

Well, Reality has a point - if the other teams get together, they can force the hand of the Lakers and of Kobe.  

Of course, that's called collusion.  Anyone remember that saga in pro baseball?

But sign-and-trades aren't always as helpful as people think.  Often, they are just about MONEY.  Grant Hill essentially screwed Orlando by doing the sign-and-trade, depleting the team he was going to of talent he could have used.

There comes a point when, if you're a competitive person, what you're doing to the team has to be more important than the cash you bank.  The big problem is that with almost all of the competitve teams, they're over the cap.  And it's rare a top-notch player wants to go to a team that isn't competitive.

 

[Derek Bodner]

But sign-and-trades aren't always as helpful as people think.

The only time a s&t doesn't make sense for the team is if the team is under the cap.  Then they can get him without giving up anything.

However, with a team over the cap it's their only option.  Does that not mean that they can give up too much for him?  absolutely, but that would be deemed a bad trade, which can happen to anyone in conventional trading means, just a s&t.

a s&t doesn't guarantee smart gm's.  it just opens up the # of possibilities.

[Lurker]

But sign-and-trades aren't always as helpful as people think.

The only time a s&t doesn't make sense for the team is if the team is under the cap.  Then they can get him without giving up anything.

 

No not entirely true.  A team under the cap does a sign & trade so that the PLAYER gets more money.  It is done to make the player happier.

And a team under the cap doesn't have to send back equal salaries.  For example the Spurs could send Malik Rose, Devin Brown and Jason Hart to the Lakers for Kobe in a sign & trade.  This is because the Spurs will have close to the max under the cap.  If the Lakers refuse then Kobe would have to decide whether it is more important to leave LA or more important to get maximum $$.

[Derek Bodner]

No not entirely true. A team under the cap does a sign & trade so that the PLAYER gets more money. It is done to make the player happier.

Heh, go back and re-read what you quoted me on.

I said the only time a s&t doesn't make sense is when a team is when the team is under the cap.

I DIDN'T say I s&t never makes sense for a team under the cap.

It's worded poorly.

basically, i meant
a s&t makes sense all the time for teams over the cap.
a s&t makes sense sometimes for teams under the cap.
a s&t sometimes doesn't make sense sometimes for teams under the cap.

[Reality]

teams not under the cap DO NOT have any choice but to persue a sign and trade.  So if Kobe wants to go to one of these teams, without taking the MLE, he DOES have to try to work things out.

dabods has enlightened me.

And he was so much more sensitive and polite then you WoW.
You keep this up insensitivity mister and it might just be dabods sitting next to me at a Lakers-Spurs game (ok Lakers-76ers).

Now Lurker has added some points.  Bottom line it for me, do Lurker and dabods agree on this cap deal?

JoeV and i agree that it is possible for the other teams to force Kobmes hand.  Wouldnt that be sweet.  Since KMalone and The Slipper Payton both took pay cuts to join LA, how sweet would it be for Kobe to take less to get on the team he wants to help win the title.   Hey, new frontiers were opened with Malone and Payton doing it last year.

[rickortreat]

No matter what happens, it's not like Kobe is going to end up in the poor house.  Teams over the cap, can always shed players just to pay Kobe more later on.

The big thing is there's no love lost between LA and the rest of the league.  Beat them on the court, beat them off the court, beat them out of the value of a top ten player, oh yeah!

Big thing is, Kobe wants to go somewhere else to get a title and proove who the REAL STAR on the Lakers was.  Beat LA like a drum!  B)