Author Topic: I hope TD gets suspended for game 6.  (Read 2920 times)

Offline Laker Fan

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Re: I hope TD gets suspended for game 6.
« Reply #15 on: May 18, 2007, 12:01:55 AM »
That's cute WOW how your little fishing expeditions pull up the trash fish but mine and/or JoMal are serious responses to your transparent attempts at goading, I suppose I should use a fine wire mesh to filter out the guppies huh?
Dan

Offline JoMal

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Re: I hope TD gets suspended for game 6.
« Reply #16 on: May 18, 2007, 10:31:26 AM »
Cut the cheese, already.

You throw a guy a lifeline and they go and tie an anvil to it.
"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty.....We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason.....We are not descended from fearful men, not from men who feared to write, to speak, to associate and to defend causes that were for the moment unpopular....We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home."

Offline JoMal

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Re: I hope TD gets suspended for game 6.
« Reply #17 on: May 18, 2007, 10:57:45 AM »
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I also want make this very clear...I can spell intellect.

Yeah, but can you also spell "pedantic"?

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Also I NEVER said I thought the suspensions were fair.  In fact I posted that I thought all involved should just have been fined.

My position is that the rules which have clearly stated, clearly enforced and regularly preached to the players and teams have been upheld.  Were the players and coaches aware of the rules?  It isn't like this is something new that was just instituted this season.  Is the rule fair?  I would probably vote no.

So far, we have been in agreement on this issue, then. Including the enforcement of the rule as it currently exists.

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But did anyone hear Stern's interview?  He is right...what factors do you take into account?  Playoff game?  Does round 3 give the player more leeway than round 2?  If happens in the first quarter is it less punishible than the 4th quarter?  A tight game vs a blowout?  Your (or the media's) favorite team?

But at what point do you suspend a player?  When he confornts someone?  When he makes grabs another player?  When he cocks his fist?  When he decks another player? 


Okay, you are starting to lose me a bit here. The rule is the rule, and if Stern simply kept his comments to that aspect of what happened, this incident would have blown over by now. But he went out of his way to point out how horrendous the actions of Stoudemire and Diaw were. They were not horrendous. The were just wrong, but not "wrong, wrong, wrong!!!", to paraphrase what Stern said at the time.

Bottom line? It made it way too easy to assert that the League, represented by Stern, treated what Horry did to Nash, which affected the player directly, as less in significance then two players who immediately reacted to a downed teammate and made it sound like THOSE actions were much worse!

Correctly interpreting the rule and stating that was the reason the players had to be suspended is one thing, but to make it sound worse then the original offense is pooring gas on the fire, IMO. 

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Is the uproar because it was Amare & Diaw?  No one made that uproar a few years ago when it was Artest & Jalen Rose.  There was not this much uproar when it cost the Knicks a series and possible title run.  Why is this situation so bad that everyone is appalled?

Would it have been different if it had been Burke and Banks?  If the situation had been reversed and "dirty" Bowen & Ginobili had been suspended would the media being crying foul?

It is because it appears, from the suspension and the outcome of game five, that Horry's decking of Nash ended up benefitting the team that Horry plays for over the "victimized" team. This is like serving mantra on a silver platter to the media.


"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty.....We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason.....We are not descended from fearful men, not from men who feared to write, to speak, to associate and to defend causes that were for the moment unpopular....We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home."

Offline Lurker

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Re: I hope TD gets suspended for game 6.
« Reply #18 on: May 18, 2007, 11:05:50 AM »
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Is the uproar because it was Amare & Diaw?  No one made that uproar a few years ago when it was Artest & Jalen Rose.  There was not this much uproar when it cost the Knicks a series and possible title run.  Why is this situation so bad that everyone is appalled?

Would it have been different if it had been Burke and Banks?  If the situation had been reversed and "dirty" Bowen & Ginobili had been suspended would the media being crying foul?

It is because it appears, from the suspension and the outcome of game five, that Horry's decking of Nash ended up benefitting the team that Horry plays for over the "victimized" team. This is like serving mantra on a silver platter to the media.

And when 5 or 6 Knicks were suspended in a altercation started by the Heat which cost them a second round series (and possible title run) didn't punish the "victimized" team?  The NBA's big market mainstay in NYC and there was not this much uproar.  Also the majority of the uproar came BEFORE the outcome of game 5 so using that as a justification is VERY, VERY weak.

So again, what made this upholding of the rule so much more unreasonable?
It riles them to believe that you perceive the web they weave.  Keep on thinking free.
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Offline JoMal

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Re: I hope TD gets suspended for game 6.
« Reply #19 on: May 18, 2007, 11:31:57 AM »
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So again, what made this upholding of the rule so much more unreasonable?

Who is saying that upholding the ruling is unreasonable? If anything, this is exposing a poorly worded RULE, but to say that UPHOLDING that rule is being called unreasonable is not at all what I am hearing from people.

The only part the Spurs are playing in all of this is that they happen to be the team that has the player who's actions seemingly benefitted his team over the victimized team.

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And when 5 or 6 Knicks were suspended in a altercation started by the Heat which cost them a second round series (and possible title run) didn't punish the "victimized" team?  The NBA's big market mainstay in NYC and there was not this much uproar.  Also the majority of the uproar came BEFORE the outcome of game 5 so using that as a justification is VERY, VERY weak.

Since you can clearly remember the details of the Heat/Knicks altercation and the aftermath, as we all can, I have to say that incident was also well reported at the time and it makes sense to compare the latest flap to that series. And I beg to differ - the uproar at that time was very loud. It just did not affect San Antonio at the time.

But I have to take exception to your using the term "justification". This is YOUR word regarding the uproar. What I am seeing is a "reaction" to it. It only would be looked at as a "justification" if you are looking at the incident through the eyes of a Spurs fan, because no one else is feeling anything like "justified" regarding it. 

"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty.....We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason.....We are not descended from fearful men, not from men who feared to write, to speak, to associate and to defend causes that were for the moment unpopular....We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home."

Offline Lurker

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Re: I hope TD gets suspended for game 6.
« Reply #20 on: May 18, 2007, 12:11:39 PM »
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So again, what made this upholding of the rule so much more unreasonable?

Who is saying that upholding the ruling is unreasonable? If anything, this is exposing a poorly worded RULE, but to say that UPHOLDING that rule is being called unreasonable is not at all what I am hearing from people.

The only part the Spurs are playing in all of this is that they happen to be the team that has the player who's actions seemingly benefitted his team over the victimized team.

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And when 5 or 6 Knicks were suspended in a altercation started by the Heat which cost them a second round series (and possible title run) didn't punish the "victimized" team?  The NBA's big market mainstay in NYC and there was not this much uproar.  Also the majority of the uproar came BEFORE the outcome of game 5 so using that as a justification is VERY, VERY weak.

Since you can clearly remember the details of the Heat/Knicks altercation and the aftermath, as we all can, I have to say that incident was also well reported at the time and it makes sense to compare the latest flap to that series. And I beg to differ - the uproar at that time was very loud. It just did not affect San Antonio at the time.

But I have to take exception to your using the term "justification". This is YOUR word regarding the uproar. What I am seeing is a "reaction" to it. It only would be looked at as a "justification" if you are looking at the incident through the eyes of a Spurs fan, because no one else is feeling anything like "justified" regarding it. 

Yes, the uproar was so loud that the rule got changed, right?  So the same rule, the same consequences.  Why is everyone so upset?


No the "justification" part is that you are using an event AFTER the discussion to support the reason for the discussion.  If you throw out the events of Wednesday night how do you justify the uproar on Tuesday?  That is were your argument got weak.  If the Suns had won on Wednesday would you have come back and said that the uproar was much ado about nothing?

If the Suns win games 6 & 7 will you go back and say that Spurs no longer "benefited" from the suspension?
It riles them to believe that you perceive the web they weave.  Keep on thinking free.
-Moody Blues

Offline JoMal

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Re: I hope TD gets suspended for game 6.
« Reply #21 on: May 18, 2007, 12:51:56 PM »

Yes, the uproar was so loud that the rule got changed, right?  So the same rule, the same consequences.  Why is everyone so upset?


No the "justification" part is that you are using an event AFTER the discussion to support the reason for the discussion.  If you throw out the events of Wednesday night how do you justify the uproar on Tuesday?  That is were your argument got weak.  If the Suns had won on Wednesday would you have come back and said that the uproar was much ado about nothing?

If the Suns win games 6 & 7 will you go back and say that Spurs no longer "benefited" from the suspension?

No
"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty.....We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason.....We are not descended from fearful men, not from men who feared to write, to speak, to associate and to defend causes that were for the moment unpopular....We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home."