Author Topic: Stoudemire calls Bowen a dirty player  (Read 4172 times)

Offline westkoast

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Re: Stoudemire calls Bowen a dirty player
« Reply #15 on: May 12, 2007, 08:40:15 PM »
Insult to injury...

Bowen knees him in the family jewels...

Personally I didn't think it was on purpose but yet more gas to be thrown on the Suns fire.
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Offline msc

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Re: Stoudemire calls Bowen a dirty player
« Reply #16 on: May 14, 2007, 12:53:20 PM »
The food and wine were even better than I could have imagined!   Everyone told me I'd love it (those are two of my fav things on the planet), but I couldn't have imagined it would be that spectacular. 

I went to Positano, Florence and Lake Como/Bellagio.  It was my first trip to Italy and Europe in general.  Since we flew direct to Heathrow I wanted to stay a few days in London as well, which was cool, very expensive, but still enjoyed it. 

I loved Italy, the people were great the country is beautiful and obviously the wine and food.  Reality, I must say I wasn't super impressed by the women.  I know there are some beauties there, but I really only saw a few.  I will say this, when I come back someday I hope to come back as a 20-something Italian male living in Florence.  There are a ton of female US students that study abroad there and it is literally like shooting fish in a barrell for them.  Oh well, I was with my lovely girlfriend of 3 years, so I had my own beauty and was more than happy w/her  ;)  Oh and I did check the internet for scores via my blackberry, but wasn't checking in on forums. 

Weeelll....if you had mentioned you were going to those three places and that you like Italian food and the wine, I could have hooked you up with three of the absolutely best restaurants in the country. I guess people on this board aren't interested in the fact that I have travelled to Europe every year, sometimes more then once within a 12 month period, and have found some pretty interesting things to do while there, and places to visit.

In Como, on Lake Como, there is a restaurant called La Spana, or The Spanish. Why they call it that is not important, but this place has THE best pizza and seafood pasta in the world. Bellagio is lovely village as well. They filmed a movie there about five years back. I think it was a made for TV movie remake of Pinnochio. You will easily recognize Bellagio from the scenes.

In Florence, if you did not eat at ll Latini, or no one told you about ll Latini, or the guide books you used had it listed but you didn't notice, or you in any other way did not go there, you really blew it. Period.

This restaurant is the type of place that you will talk about for years after going there. It is huge, noisy, crowded, and the wait to be seated takes around an hour......and it was the best experience we had both times we ate there.

On our last Italian trip, we made a detour for a day to visit Florence...not for the art or the museums, all of which we had seen previously, but to eat at ll Latini....and the night we chose was Monday....and it was closed on Mondays.

I sat on the curb outside and was unconsolable for 30 minutes.

Positano is one of our favorite places to visit in the south. Since the food is generally so good in the South, it really does not matter about any recommendations for that places, as we enjoyed just about all of our meals we had while there on our last trip. No, I am telling you that you probably went through Sorrento on the way there. maybe even stayed a night or two, because the bus to Positano goes from there, unless you rented a car. Anyway, stay in Sorrento the next time for a few nights. For a relatively small town, the food there is outstanding and it is in a lovely location. We always make Sorrento our headquarters for visits back to Pompei and Herculenium. Great spot, as is Positano.

I can also recommend other places to stay and visit that are worthy on any trip to Italy. Wonderful country. 

As for the women, I saw quite a few beauties. What struck me about them is that they check you out. I think what they are really doing is checking out if you are checking THEM out. They all walk and dress like they are attending Pret'-a'-Porter.

Hey JoMal! 

Thanks for the tips, even though they are retroactive, which BTW is entirely my fault. 

You will be relieved to know that I did eat at Il Latini.  Actually, my girlfriend studied abroad in Florence seven years ago or so and a few of her friends married local Italian guys (go figure?).  Anyway, one of her good friends has another friend who is engaged to a guy that works at Il Latini.  As a result, we were ushered in past a huge crowd waiting outside for the late seating, were comp'd a bunch of wine and in general just had an incredible time and meal.  We basically sampled all of it, apps, three pastas, and then a plethora of meats including steak, veal and rabbit.  I absolutely loved Il Latini; however, I personally liked La Giostra better.  A friend had recommended this place to me and it blew me away.  A crazy old man with long white hair is the chef and owner and it's completely run by him and his family.  Great atmosphere and food to die for.  You've probably tried it already, but if not I would highly recommend it.  Of course debating which of these restaurants is "better" is akin to debating whether the Ferrari or Lamborghini is a finer sports car. 

Just to stay on topic, the more I've seen the Bowen/Stoudimire replays from different angles (i.e., not the one on the youtube link I provided), the less I believe this was a cheap shot.  It looks like Bowen just sort of awkwardly tries to slow is pace and his foot ends up sticking out a little far for balance.  I don't think it was calculated or cheap in any way and I'm having a hard time getting behind Stoudimire and his crybaby coach at all in this series.  Go Spurs Go!

Offline Skandery

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Re: Stoudemire calls Bowen a dirty player
« Reply #17 on: May 14, 2007, 01:22:40 PM »
Quote
It looks like Bowen just sort of awkwardly tries to slow is pace and his foot ends up sticking out a little far for balance.

True enough, its not hard to believe Bowen didn't genuinely go out to hurt Amare, but the problem with Bowen is the list of questionable plays and chance altercations is starting to get pretty long.
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Offline JoMal

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Re: Stoudemire calls Bowen a dirty player
« Reply #18 on: May 14, 2007, 02:05:45 PM »
Hey JoMal! 

Thanks for the tips, even though they are retroactive, which BTW is entirely my fault. 

You will be relieved to know that I did eat at Il Latini.  Actually, my girlfriend studied abroad in Florence seven years ago or so and a few of her friends married local Italian guys (go figure?).  Anyway, one of her good friends has another friend who is engaged to a guy that works at Il Latini.  As a result, we were ushered in past a huge crowd waiting outside for the late seating, were comp'd a bunch of wine and in general just had an incredible time and meal.  We basically sampled all of it, apps, three pastas, and then a plethora of meats including steak, veal and rabbit.  I absolutely loved Il Latini; however, I personally liked La Giostra better.  A friend had recommended this place to me and it blew me away.  A crazy old man with long white hair is the chef and owner and it's completely run by him and his family.  Great atmosphere and food to die for.  You've probably tried it already, but if not I would highly recommend it.  Of course debating which of these restaurants is "better" is akin to debating whether the Ferrari or Lamborghini is a finer sports car. 

Just to stay on topic, the more I've seen the Bowen/Stoudimire replays from different angles (i.e., not the one on the youtube link I provided), the less I believe this was a cheap shot.  It looks like Bowen just sort of awkwardly tries to slow is pace and his foot ends up sticking out a little far for balance.  I don't think it was calculated or cheap in any way and I'm having a hard time getting behind Stoudimire and his crybaby coach at all in this series.  Go Spurs Go!

msc -

I did not mean to rag on you about not asking my opinion before going, and that sounds pretty presumptuous of me anyway, but what I like to hear is that someone WENT there at all. It still surprises me how few people I know have actually gone to Europe, or visited places that I have been.

The food at II Latini certainly bears mention, but you missed the fun part - waiting out there with the huge crowd clamoring to get in. "The Bear", I am sure, you met. He keeps that large crowd in line, remembers faces, and matches them up to other people to sit at the same tables, and while you wait, brings out wine and cheese. In other words, you go to II Latini to sit with strangers, not people you already know. Both times we went there, "The Bear" had to ask us to leave because we were enjoying ourselves so much, the place closed around us. I love a place that has to throw you out for having a good time!!

I might have gone to La Giostra, though the name does not ring a bell. I have a journal I keep on every trip to Europe and my wife also compiles a hotel and restaurant information guide for reference. There are two other restaurants in Florence that were outstanding, but I have to look them up to see if one of them was La Giostra. There also is one I logged in for opposite reasons. A place I tell people to avoid at all costs. Run by a bitch who provides slop to tourists and figures she won't see them again so who cares if they complain.

Final comment. Don't know if your girlfriend ever visited these places while studying in Italy, but if not, well - go there next time anyway - Sirimioni, on Lake Garda; Orvieto, on the train route south right before Rome; the Cinqueterra, near Pisa on the Mediterranean; and Siena, which is near Florence. To properly enjoy each, try to stay at least two nights in each. If interested at some point on more info on them, don't hesitate to ask.

Now, on topic. I have to disagree about Bowen, simply because there seem to be too many similar cases where his foot, or his knee "just happens" to be where it does the most damage. It stopped being a coincidence after the twentieth or thirtieth time it occurred. He is very good at making people think it was accidental, but that is the beauty of it.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2007, 03:49:11 PM by JoMal »
"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty.....We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason.....We are not descended from fearful men, not from men who feared to write, to speak, to associate and to defend causes that were for the moment unpopular....We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home."

Offline Lurker

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Re: Stoudemire calls Bowen a dirty player
« Reply #19 on: May 14, 2007, 02:52:42 PM »
Now, on topic. I have to disagree about Bowen, simply because there seem to be too many similar cases where his foot, or his knee "just happens" to be where it does the most damage. It stopped being a coincidence after the twentieth or thirtieth time it occurred. He is very good at making people think it was accidental, but that is the beauty of it.

Now wouldn't it really be nice if we had the plethora of video for some of the other great defensive players.  I bet if enough video from enough angles were available we would find Cooper used a lot of the same tactics.  Rodman grabbed people's thumbs, held jerseys and would even occasionally step on the others player foot while "battling" for position.  Every great shutdown defender played "dirty".

The most ironic part of the whole thing is that if Bowen & Raja switched teams the Suns fans would be supporting Bruce all over the place.  I agree Bowen is "dirty"...but it is great that he is on MY team.
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Offline westkoast

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Re: Stoudemire calls Bowen a dirty player
« Reply #20 on: May 14, 2007, 03:11:43 PM »
Now, on topic. I have to disagree about Bowen, simply because there seem to be too many similar cases where his foot, or his knee "just happens" to be where it does the most damage. It stopped being a coincidence after the twentieth or thirtieth time it occurred. He is very good at making people think it was accidental, but that is the beauty of it.

Now wouldn't it really be nice if we had the plethora of video for some of the other great defensive players.  I bet if enough video from enough angles were available we would find Cooper used a lot of the same tactics.  Rodman grabbed people's thumbs, held jerseys and would even occasionally step on the others player foot while "battling" for position.  Every great shutdown defender played "dirty".

The most ironic part of the whole thing is that if Bowen & Raja switched teams the Suns fans would be supporting Bruce all over the place.  I agree Bowen is "dirty"...but it is great that he is on MY team.

The problem I have with it is that some of the source of the dirty comments are players who got shut down and are known to whine.   Ray Allen for example has been shut down by him many times and he really gets under his skin.  I don't see Dirk, Gilbert Arenas, Kobe,  or alot of the very talented players he has guarded saying the same thing.    Amare certainly doesn't whine like Ray Allen and in no way am I saying the guys who complain are not talented...I am just pointing out frustration seems to be the motive.  The other problem is when one person says something it spreads and all the sudden no matter what you do you are labeled as such and such.

Raja Bell does alot of pulling, grabbing, flopping, and has had his fair share of cheap shots (blatant ones I might add not ones debatable) but he has not been labeled as a dirty defender so no one focuses in on him like crazy.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2007, 03:21:49 PM by westkoast »
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Offline Reality

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Re: Stoudemire calls Bowen a dirty player
« Reply #21 on: May 14, 2007, 03:22:23 PM »
Bowens attempting to stop on the play.
I don't know of anyone trying to *stop* who with one foot planted kicks up the other leg and foot like a stage chorus girl or an NFL kicker doing an extra point.

Seems his intent was definitely to nudge Stoudamire in the back of the heel/achilles/lower leg.

Offline JoMal

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Re: Stoudemire calls Bowen a dirty player
« Reply #22 on: May 14, 2007, 03:57:34 PM »
Now, on topic. I have to disagree about Bowen, simply because there seem to be too many similar cases where his foot, or his knee "just happens" to be where it does the most damage. It stopped being a coincidence after the twentieth or thirtieth time it occurred. He is very good at making people think it was accidental, but that is the beauty of it.

Now wouldn't it really be nice if we had the plethora of video for some of the other great defensive players.  I bet if enough video from enough angles were available we would find Cooper used a lot of the same tactics.  Rodman grabbed people's thumbs, held jerseys and would even occasionally step on the others player foot while "battling" for position.  Every great shutdown defender played "dirty".

The most ironic part of the whole thing is that if Bowen & Raja switched teams the Suns fans would be supporting Bruce all over the place.  I agree Bowen is "dirty"...but it is great that he is on MY team.

The problem I have with it is that some of the source of the dirty comments are players who got shut down and are known to whine.   Ray Allen for example has been shut down by him many times and he really gets under his skin.  I don't see Dirk, Gilbert Arenas, Kobe,  or alot of the very talented players he has guarded saying the same thing.    Amare certainly doesn't whine like Ray Allen and in no way am I saying the guys who complain are not talented...I am just pointing out frustration seems to be the motive.  The other problem is when one person says something it spreads and all the sudden no matter what you do you are labeled as such and such.

Raja Bell does alot of pulling, grabbing, flopping, and has had his fair share of cheap shots (blatant ones I might add not ones debatable) but he has not been labeled as a dirty defender so no one focuses in on him like crazy.

Ah, yes, the old fall back, "If all these other great defenders did it, then what Bowen is doing is okay".

No, it isn't. What Rodman did was not 'basketball', and it was mostly illegal, but the refs let it go because he was playing with Jordan and Jordan got special privileges. Cooper was not the same type of defender as Rodman and you can't compare the two to each other, and certainly can't compare Cooper to Bowen. I agree that some of the best whinners in the NBA hate what Bowen does to them and throws them off their games, what we should be most upset about is how often Bowen gets away with what he does. Again, it is not basketball.

The best way to deal with Bowen's tactics? Review what Bonze Wells did in last year's Kings/Spurs playoff series. Bowen wanted nothing to do with either Artest or Wells in that series.
"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty.....We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason.....We are not descended from fearful men, not from men who feared to write, to speak, to associate and to defend causes that were for the moment unpopular....We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home."

Offline Lurker

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Re: Stoudemire calls Bowen a dirty player
« Reply #23 on: May 14, 2007, 04:04:13 PM »
and certainly can't compare Cooper to Bowen.

I guess I'm not the only one who thinks so...

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-24-62/Feeling-Violated-by-Playoff-Basketball.html

Quote
Which are both excellent reasons for the Suns to especially remember Magic Johnson's Lakers now. They may not have been the bullies of the league, but they were plenty physical in their way. (Consider the career of Kurt Rambis. Also, watch old video of Michael Cooper and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar -- I'm sure Bruce Bowen and Tim Duncan have done just that.) And more than anything, when Magic Johnson's Lakers encountered extremely physical teams like the Celtics of Kevin McHale, Larry Bird, and Robert Parish, they didn't let all that fire burn up their playbook. They were able to impose their fast-breaking style nonetheless. Even in that environment, the Lakers could often be in their element, and more often than not, Los Angeles ended up not whining at all, but smiling.

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Offline WayOutWest

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Re: Stoudemire calls Bowen a dirty player
« Reply #24 on: May 14, 2007, 04:13:20 PM »
and certainly can't compare Cooper to Bowen.

I guess I'm not the only one who thinks so...

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-24-62/Feeling-Violated-by-Playoff-Basketball.html

Quote
Which are both excellent reasons for the Suns to especially remember Magic Johnson's Lakers now. They may not have been the bullies of the league, but they were plenty physical in their way. (Consider the career of Kurt Rambis. Also, watch old video of Michael Cooper and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar -- I'm sure Bruce Bowen and Tim Duncan have done just that.) And more than anything, when Magic Johnson's Lakers encountered extremely physical teams like the Celtics of Kevin McHale, Larry Bird, and Robert Parish, they didn't let all that fire burn up their playbook. They were able to impose their fast-breaking style nonetheless. Even in that environment, the Lakers could often be in their element, and more often than not, Los Angeles ended up not whining at all, but smiling.


To a certain extent I think that if nothing is being done about Bowen then the Suns should take upon themselves to deal with it.  I am no pro but I can certainly step under a player with the intent of trying to tweak and ankle.  Bowen being a spot up jump shooter should make it easy, so would going after a guy like TD who plays close to his defender in the post. 
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Offline JoMal

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Re: Stoudemire calls Bowen a dirty player
« Reply #25 on: May 14, 2007, 04:33:47 PM »
and certainly can't compare Cooper to Bowen.

I guess I'm not the only one who thinks so...

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-24-62/Feeling-Violated-by-Playoff-Basketball.html

Quote
Which are both excellent reasons for the Suns to especially remember Magic Johnson's Lakers now. They may not have been the bullies of the league, but they were plenty physical in their way. (Consider the career of Kurt Rambis. Also, watch old video of Michael Cooper and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar -- I'm sure Bruce Bowen and Tim Duncan have done just that.) And more than anything, when Magic Johnson's Lakers encountered extremely physical teams like the Celtics of Kevin McHale, Larry Bird, and Robert Parish, they didn't let all that fire burn up their playbook. They were able to impose their fast-breaking style nonetheless. Even in that environment, the Lakers could often be in their element, and more often than not, Los Angeles ended up not whining at all, but smiling.


Sorry, but it hardly matters to me what a blogger feels is comparable here. The Rodman/Bowen comparision makes a whole lot more sense, but saying that these players of another era are comparible to these current players is ludicrous. Cooper never had the type of rep that Bowen is getting. Duncan is a great defender who works at it, while Jabber was a tall defender who was effectively tall.

The Suns are not the team that should worry about Bowen anyway. They are not going to get by the Spurs because they do not play NBA "playoff" style basketball, which the Spurs do. No, the team that will truly answer the question about where Bowen stands defensively will be Detriot.
"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty.....We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason.....We are not descended from fearful men, not from men who feared to write, to speak, to associate and to defend causes that were for the moment unpopular....We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home."