Yes and Sacramento paid a fat, worthless, talentless slob like Ostertag what they would have had to to pay Vlade, and sacrificed a team leader, a fair amount of chemistry and in no small measure I think, disrupted Peja's game and mindset for what? To "rehabilitate" Ostertag?
And what I meant by "I certainly have never seen where the Kings take in headcase misfits and turn out well-adjusted, rehabilitated players" is just that, name me one player of the group you just mentioned that even remotely in your wildest headcase fantasy land dreams compares to Bonzi Wells, notwithstanding the fact that headcase is one thing, chemistry killer is quite another. Jackson came as close to being a chemistry killer as any you mentioned and he wasn't even in the same universe as Bonzi. Webber was still a headcase even when he played for the Kings and the only time he DIDN"T disrupt chemistry is when he was injured, so I guess since he sat out injured so much he was GREAT for chemistry. I agree with Koast, I don't remember Christie ever being as bad as you've intimated, certainly not "uncoachable". You may be able to make a better case for Pollard but come on JoMal, 2-3 isolated players who did well in a very freeflowing offense where they could basically just forget about having to play defense and all of a sudden the Kings are the lone shining light in the NBA for headcase players? Methinks perhaps you are reaching a little bit.
And yes let's do discuss Polynice, Ostertag and Duane Causwell. They all did wonderfully well in that headcase sanctuary in Sacramento didn't they? I wonder how many times Polynice got away with impersonating a cop there while he was putting up the same mediocre numbers he has put up everywhere he's ever played, certainly his last 2 years at Utah were no better and no worse than his last year in Sacramento. And Ostertag did significantly worse (as if that was possible) in Sacramento than he did in Utah.
We in LA LA land may have our minds overly affected by the filtered sunshine, but I don't think our reasoning is nearly as clouded as yours is on this topic (which is not typical of you, I count you as one of the most well reasoned poster here), I wonder if it's too much methane gas.
Hmmmm.
I think that maybe my point is not quite reaching through the ozone layer covering LA.
Vlade just was not going to get the money he felt he deserved in Sacramento. What made that look bad was that Petrie then went out and signed Ostertag for two years for more money. Vlade's contributions in the locker room get a bit diluted when the player is not playing, or the Lakers would have been a bit more well-oiled with him on the sidelines last year. As you found out, paying for a seven foot cheer leader has its drawbacks and Peja had to realyze that or flounder himself.
BTW, Peja's latest comments on the subject is that he expects to resign with the Kings after this season. No more trade talks that popped up after the Kings did not sign Divac, and now that Vlade is on the verge of retiring, I doubt this subject merits any more serious consideration since nothing will come of it from here on out.
No two NBA headcases carry the exact same type of baggage, Laker Dan. I would have to say that Webber's baggage was way, way more sophisticated and diverse then Wells' baggage on his best day. But then he was a player who made an impact, one way or the other, whether he was playing or sitting. You never could get away from Webber issues. Wells, on the other hand, tends to implode, and get arrested for stupid things, (unlike Webber, the thinking man's rap sheeter).
Wells can only WISH he had Webber's problems to deal with. Instead, he has to deal with teammate problems and cancer-in-the-locker-room issues.
How can you compare the two? Easy. They both can lead to disruptions affecting the team chemistry in their own way. But if Webber's problems affected the Kings' play, they hid it well. I know what you are saying, Dan. Other then the rap that Jimmy Jackson brought with him, we have not had to deal with anyone like Bonzi.
And I agree with that. Wholeheartedly. But I also recognize the position that Wells is in coming to Sacramento. His contract, his past, that reputation. He has much more to lose here then a few dollars in fines, Dan.
If that motivates him into a great year so he can cash in on a bigger contract, the Kings benefit. If he fails, we have the problem for only a year, then he is gone. I really do not see how this disrupts anything in the long term with the team. There is a upside there, afterall.
Christie, BTW, wore out his welcome in Toronto by demanding more playing time and complaining about coming out of games. Similar to what occurred in Orlando. He was pushed down the bench by the coach at the time and eventually got traded to the Kings.
"You may be able to make a better case for Pollard but come on JoMal, 2-3 isolated players who did well in a very freeflowing offense where they could basically just forget about having to play defense and all of a sudden the Kings are the lone shining light in the NBA for headcase players? Methinks perhaps you are reaching a little bit."
Mmmmmokay.
I seem to have missed where I claimed Sacramento to be the lone shining light in the NBA for headcase players, but regardless, the Kings certainly do have a history for salvaging players who either failed elsewhere or were just not wanted by anyone anymore, then letting the player prove his worth. I do believe I have a case on that point.
And I have no idea if Bonzi Wells is going to be the next one.
I just know he gets his year to prove he is worthy of a bigger paycheck and he has much to gain by doing what is right and not falling into his old pattern. That also was true of Webber, BTW, or do we all forget what his underachieving rep was prior to his trade to the Kings?
Polynice was a decent player in Sacramento, who got plenty of double-doubles while here.
HIS problem was one of disrespect. Guy never knew when to just keep quiet. Causwell never really liked playing basketball, preferring to play video games instead. Had the IQ of the quarters he fed into the machines around town. We, nor anyone else in the NBA, could be expected to salvage THAT. Ostertag was a legitimate failure and I have nothing to add to that mistake except to say it is now Utah's job to motivate him because we could not do it either. Could be these guys just were not that interested in basketball. The connecting factor in all three is that they grew to be very tall men and it was expected of them to play basketball. And none of them really like the game.
I think I am being reasonable about Wells, Dan. You think it was an utterly foolish mistake by Petrie. I say, Petrie gambles a ton on players and looks smart when it works out, and manages to dispose of the mistakes as soon as possible. That is a trick I would not mind figuring out for myself.
In Well's case, his extremely colorful baggage is either going to be a burden he can't get clean away from at all (and thereby will lose out on millions of dollars), or he is going to prove he can fit in with this team and justify someone paying him that contract.
Yeah, it is certainly another Petrie risk, but with an 'out' clause for everyone to see.
No pressure, Bonzi.
