Author Topic: Belated Congrats  (Read 2287 times)

Offline Laker Fan

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Belated Congrats
« on: July 26, 2005, 03:04:12 PM »
BTW, congratulations to the absolutely, unequivocally, irrefutably, no question whatsoever, greatest athlete to have ever lived on planet earth, Lance Armstrong. He accomplished the impossible, he succeeded where men have tried for over 100 years, he completed a feat no human will probably EVER repeat, 7 consecutive wins in the most gruelling sporting event in the world, the most gruelling by a long, long, sea mile.

He did it without doing drugs, without a ton of punk thug "peeps" hanging on, without being an overpriced, overhyped, overrated, spoiled, selfish, self-centered, arrogant, full of himself "superstar" like, well, a very, very large pecentage of professional athletes.  It was just him and his team of dedicated and loyal riders against 180 of the most elite athletes in the world. For 2,232.7 miles over 3 weeks, across 18 mountian ranges, unbearable heat, dangerous rain slicked roads, day in, day out, (save 2 rest days) all but 3 of those days riding well over 100 miles every day, he battled these athletes, and in the end, he proved for the 7th straight time, he has no equal in the world of pure, unadulterated athleticism.

It is a shame that a world where your typical sports fan, caught up in thug life, in "bling bling", in virtually worshipping sport stars I for the most part would be embarrassed to number among my friends, athletes that with only a few notable exceptions, qualify as roles models only if you want to be some gangsta punk, that Lance Armstrong's quiet dignity and committment to pure athletics will go largely ignored, just because there is no flash associated with what he does. But make no mistake, while every sport has its legitimate superstars, while it is rarified air indeed to be able to compete at a professional level in any real sport (bowling doesn't count), when it comes to being a pure athlete, with all the hard work and training that it requires, history has never seen the like of Lance Armstrong.

Congratulations Lance.
Dan

Guest_Randy

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« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2005, 03:22:18 PM »
Do you know what I thought was cool -- here he is after his 7th consecutive Tour de France and his kids are hanging all over him -- and he doesn't mind.  Says a lot for him as a dad, IMO.  I thought that was pretty cool!

What wasn't cool?  Watching all the celebs who went over just to become part of the publicity!  

rickortreat

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Belated Congrats
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2005, 03:23:29 PM »
Agree wholeheartedly.  Lance is up there as one of the greatest of all time, if not the greatest.  

Winning the Tour de France is an incredible accomplishment to win it even once, to win it  Seven consecutive times is an astounding feat.

 :hail:  :hail:  :hail:  :hail:  :hail:  :hail:  :hail:  :hail:  :hail:  :hail:  :hail:  :hail:  :hail:  

Offline Laker Fan

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« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2005, 03:31:08 PM »
What he did to the field near the top of the mountain on stage 10 was flat out breathtaking, he took a field of 38 riders who were with him in the chase group and proceeded to destroy them, riding their legs clean off their bodies, and this with over 100 mountian miles already behind them, when he turned to teamate Popovich and said OK, let's lose these guys, it was a demonstration of physical fitness and training that was unbelievable to watch, he caught the breakaway, reduced Jan Ullrich to tears, and IMO LET ValVerde win the stage, THAT was my favorite moment of this years tour.
Dan

Offline Skandery

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« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2005, 04:32:00 PM »
I know next to nothing about cycling, yet even I can appreciate the incredible accomplishment of winning seven Tour de France titles.  I think as a specimen of human endurance conditioning, there is perhaps no one in history who is Lance Armstrong's equal.  But to call him the best "Athlete" ever, I do wonder about.    

I ran into this article on ESPN by Skip Bayless (on Cold Pizza).  Of all the Lance Armstrong articles, this one seems the to take the most objective look at the argument of best athlete without letting the emotion of a cancer survivor winning seven Tour de France's overwhelm the discussion.    

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story...=bayless/050725
« Last Edit: July 26, 2005, 04:34:58 PM by Skandery »
"But guys like us, we don't pay attention to the polls. We know that polls are just a collection of statistics that reflect what people are thinking in 'reality'. And reality has a well-known liberal bias."

Offline Laker Fan

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« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2005, 05:23:59 PM »
I had already read that article, it's typical of Bayless, although I don't disagree with some of what he writes, I would only say, it is apples and oranges when it comes to sports, the fact that Lance CHOSE to ride a bicycle as opposed to learning a ball sport means zero, zilch. All great athletes, or actually most great athletes, LEARN to play a sport, LEARN and DEVELOP hand eye coordination, PRACTICE until they practically faint to perfect a move or improve a portion of their game, virtually none, and I do mean NONE, would be great without dedicated, hard work, exceptions being someone who is so huge they simply have no equal, Shaq for example, but I daresay there is not an athlete in the ball sports who could compete for even one stage of a serious bicycling stage race, and Bayless's comment about him having perfect equipment is laughable when compared to the millions of dollars spent on trainers, euipment, therapists, scientific regimens and all the other perfect effort that goes into giving the professional ball sport athlete an edge, Lance's equipment isn't even worth 10 minutes work for Shaq in a given game, this is simply a joke.

If a naturally talented athlete like Lance had applied himself to say baseball, and LEARNED and DEVELOPED hand eye cooridation like all ball players must, who's to say where he would be in the Majors, likewise a ball sport athlete who had chosen instead to master the SPORT of endurance riding and supreme physical fitness? Crossover athlete like Bo Jackson only prove my point, they are so EXTREMELY rare as to be almost a nonfactor. Look at Jordan, his failure at baseball by Bayless' criteria relegates him to: "So what he can play basketball? He can't play baseball so he is less than brilliant". So what Lance can't play baseball, Joe Montanta probably couldn't have played pro Baseball at the level he played football, so he is less of an athlete than Wille Mays was? Give me a small break?

When you stand athletes side by side, and when it comes down to pure, unadulterated physical fitness and conditioning, Lance Armstrong has no equals, period. Being a ridiculously avid rider myself, I know what kind of balance, control, focus, and dedication it takes to ride at a high rate of performance. Add to that the fact that in the Tour De France, you do over 100 miles a day (the longest stage is 143 miles) for 21 days in a crowd of 200 riders with completely uncontrolled crowds pressing in on you, throwing water on you, waving flags and towels in your face, often while you are moving at better than 30 MPH, avoiding crashes in front of you, fighting off challenges from 200 riders behind you, to the professional bicycle racer, that is the 7th game of the world series or the NBA Finals, it is the Superbowl, and it is not you against one batter, one defender, one free safety, it is you against 200 other riders who would do anything, including gang up on you, to destroy you. You have 21 chances to win even just one stage and it is so rare that riders will ride the Tour for 15 years and never come close to winning a stage, Lances teammate George Hincappie won his first stage this year after 10 straight years riding the tour and said now he can retire a happy man having won one yellow jersy, in 210 tries. It is so difficult to do that in the cycling world, stage winner in the The Tour De France behind a rider's name is equivelant to having a Superbowl ring.

I never said Lance is the best ball sport player, I said when it comes to being a purely physical fit athlete, he is the best that ever lived.
Dan

Offline JoMal

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« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2005, 06:37:07 PM »
Two things:

1 - What was Lance ranting about on the podium, when I thought the cyclers were just supposed to accept their medals and pose for pictures instead of providing a weird commentary about all those critics of cycling out there who never respected what they did?

 :huh:

2 - Hate to say it, but with Armstrong retiring, little mention is going to be made of cycling in this country in the foreseeable future.

Oh, maybe that is what Armstrong meant.
"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty.....We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason.....We are not descended from fearful men, not from men who feared to write, to speak, to associate and to defend causes that were for the moment unpopular....We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home."

Offline Laker Fan

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« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2005, 02:01:21 PM »
I know what he meant JoMal, there are plenty of sports writers who flat out say professinal cycling isn't a sport and Lance Armstrong is no athlete and then in the next sentance will argue golf is.

They say anyone can ride a bike, and that is true, but anyone can toss a fotball around as well, anyone can play baseball, or softball, street basketball is one of the most brutal sports there is, and anyone can get in there and mix it up. Can just anyone take these sports to a professional level? Not in their wildest dreams. Same goes for pro cycling, anyone can ride a bike, I don't have the knees for ball spors anymore, but I can ride, and I train, workout, diet, and suffer every week to do one thing, be the best cyclist I can be. I don't believe there are more than a handful of ball sport players, most likely the smaller basketballers or the more energetic baseball player or 2, who could even keep me in sight on just one of my training rides, and I probably would just ride the legs off of them. And yet, on my absolute best day, I couldn't stay within 20 miles of the worst rider to enter the Tour De France this year. Stage racing is the ultimate endurance sport, and only ultimate athletes need apply.

I don't blame Lance for his comments as I know you don't, but that is what he meant, cycling gets no respect in this country because there is no gangsta bling bling flash associated with it, and I'm quite sure you are correct, with Lance gone, this sport will once again die here, and names like Basso, Ullrich, and ValVerde will illicit nothing more than a blank stare from narrowminded US "sports fans".
Dan

Offline WayOutWest

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« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2005, 02:24:16 PM »
This is probably not the thread to make a case for Doyle Burnson....so I won't.

Wonder how he would have done as a Laker had he not been injured.  
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jn

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« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2005, 03:20:08 PM »
Doyle Brunson?  He tried out for the Celtics and got torched by Garry Kasparov.


Armstrong is a king. His is certainly one of the most remarkable sports accomplishments of all time and it really is too bad that most Americans will just bail on cycling.  I started to enjoy the Tour de France when LeMond started to become a factor and I really admired Miguel Indurain, another freak of nature.  Sadly, the Daily Show summed it up last night with comments about how to top Armstrong's story the new winner will have to be a hot, blind Americna girl who survived a fall down a well otherwise it will be Jean Pierre I don't care and Bjorn Yaaaaawwwnn to most U.S fans.\

That said I must say I always have a hard time saying "greatest of all time" about any athlete.  In this case calling Armstrong the greatest endurance athlete of all time is tough because of this guy

http://www.urheiluarkisto.fi/paavonurmi/life.htm

It's just too tough to compare eras and sports to say one person is unquestionably the greatest endurance athlete.   In addition to the above mentioned Nurmi it's hard to compare Armstrong to swimmers and people like ultra marathoners, triathletes, etc.  

Offline Laker Fan

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« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2005, 01:03:22 AM »
I agree JN, he was certainly a great runner. Runners, even marathoners, however, do not run a marathon every day for 21 days, a truly gifted triathlete competes in 5-6 events a year, and it is only a one day event, same with ultra iron man competitions and ultra marathoners, they are one day events. Personally I think those events are are for the fanatical fringe lunatic fitness freaks, and I can totally appreciate and dig it, because that is exactly what stage race cyclists are, lunatic fitness freaks. All these cats that are seriously competative in their respective sport, and triathletes and iron men in particular, are better pure athletes from a fitness standpoint than most ball players, the exception being basketball, because it is a seriously aerobic sport requiring huge outputs of energy, but even they get rests during a game and the game only last 48 clock minutes. Triathletes, marathoners, iron men, put out at 80+% for several hours at a time, but only in one day events, there is no comparison to what stage racing does.
Dan