Ventre doesnt think Horry should be

[SPURSX3]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3296418/

[Reality]

"If you start to make emotional choices based on a few high-profile moments, it cheapens the honor and lowers the bar.

What a farce.
 

[Joe Vancil]

What an OUTSTANDING statement.  One that I agree with completely.

If you start to make emotional choices based on a few high-profile moments, it cheapens the honor and lowers the bar.

Nick Van Exel - Hall of Famer.  Steve Kerr - Hall of Famer.  Derek Fisher - Hall of Famer.  Yet no Maurice Cheeks.  After all, he didn't carry his team to a series victory, or hit memorable big shots in the Finals like Kerr did twice.

It's a HALL OF FAME.  People who are supposed to go in are folks like Magic, Bird, and Jordan.  People like Robert Horry need to buy a ticket to get into the Hall of Fame, just like everyone else.

Think about it this way - every year, pretty much at least two, perhaps 3 NBA players go in.  That means for every draft class that comes out, there are AT LEAST 2 LEGENDARY PLAYERS.  The heck with this "once in a lifetime" kind of player - they average 2 per draft.

Consider this about Robert Horry - in 6 finals appearances, he's faced two members of the NBA's all-time 50 Greatest - Ewing in 1994 and Shaq in 1995.  He's had at least one on his team until this year, and that's assuming Duncan isn't considered one (and since he wasn't named...there you go).

Now consider Michael Cooper.  He appeared in what - 8 finals in an 12-year career?  He faced 1 of the top 50 in 80, 1 in 82, 2 in 83,  3 in 84, 3 in 85, 4 in 87, 3 in 88, and 1 in 90.  

Assuming that San An wins this year, he's only got one more ring than Cooper, and not nearly as many appearances.  Why aren't we talking about Cooper for the Hall Of Fame?  

BECAUSE HE DOESN'T BELONG THERE.  He was carried there by folks Kareem, Magic, and Worthy - the same way Olajuwon, Shaq/Kobe, Duncan have carried Horry there.  Cooper was every bit as good of a teammate as Horry has been...in fact, a better one.  I don't ever recall Cooper blasting former teammates in the paper for their performance on the basketball court...can't say the same thing about Horry, or has everyone forgotten his statements regarding Shaq and Kobe upon arriving in San An?  Horry has never been honored with anything like a DPOY, or an All-Defensive selection.  Essentially, Cooper has a better record of winning - has superior scoring numbers for his career AND FOR THE PLAYOFFS, AND FOR THE SERIES THAT HE'S WON!  The playoff shooting numbers for Horry versus Cooper in the years that they've won rings?  One of them - a starter for 2 seasons - put up a .427 shooting percentage and 9.7 points a game.  The other,  a reserve, put up a .484 shooting percentage and 9.8 points per game.  Oh - but there's Robert Horry's outside shooting...right?  Robert Horry - .371 from 3-point range in those championship playoffs....Michael Cooper - .420.

Horry is only a Hall-of-Fame candidate because of emotional choices based on a few high-profile moments.  Performance-wise, he's got no business being there.

 

[jn]

Thank you Joe.   I agree completely.  The other guy who must be mentioned, IMO, is Dennis Johnson.  How could Horry be whilea 5 time All Star, 9 time (NINE!) All NBA defender, Finals MVP, 3 championships and two more finals appearances, who Larry Bird referred to as "the best he'd played with" still be kept out?  As for clutch performances I know Laker fans haven't forgotten his jumper to win game 4 of the 85 finals or his taking over defensive responsibilities on Magic in in game 4 of the 84 finals, slowing one of the games ulitmate winners enough to turn the tide of the series.  That's not even mentioning his bucket on the play where Bird stole Isiah's inbound pass.

This is not to diminish Horry's clutch shots.  They are thrilling and I applaud him for it.  On Sunday I was yelling "Big Shot Rob!" with the others at a bar.  However it must be remembered that we are talking about a 6'10" player who has never shot %50 from the floor  (and has rarely even approached it) and never averaged more than 7.5 rebounds.  In fact I think he has only averaged more than seven twice.  His top scoring average is 12 points and he has only averaged double figures a couple times.  As for his time in Houston he was not even close to being the clutch player in the finals.  In 94 Hakeem and Otis Thorpe were the ones who went to war against Ewing and Oakley while Cassell and Vernon Maxwell came up with the clutch outside play.  In 95, with the shortened three point line his shooting percentage paled in comparison to Mario Elie and Kenny Smith.

Also how do those who support his entry feel about the fact that in addition to DJ and the Cheeks, Dumars, Rodman, and Artis Gilmore are not in the Hall?

[JoMal]

This is a no-brainer. Joe is completely right in his assessment.

[Derek Bodner]

"If you start to make emotional choices based on a few high-profile moments, it cheapens the honor and lowers the bar.

Completely agree.

What a farce.

Bet you didn't feel that way when he was a Laker.

Yet no Maurice Cheeks. After all, he didn't carry his team to a series victory, or hit memorable big shots in the Finals like Kerr did twice.

Oh, Joe.  Maybe not memorable for the rest of the country.  But us Sixers fans still have visions of his dunking the final bucket of game four.

[Joe Vancil]

Wow.  I can't wait until Skander reads this.

I mentioned Dennis Johnson and Maurice Cheeks to him (although, not Michael Cooper) as examples of players more deserving that Horry, and he was adamant that Horry was far more deserving of the Hall.  After all, Dennis Johnson just made the bucket on the Larry Bird steal...and that was Bird, not Johnson...

Sorry, buddy...but you EARNED this one.
 

[Reality]

What a farce.

Bet you didn't feel that way when he was a Laker.

 

Why should I have?  One legit title.  Plus the Vlade Divac tipped shot, while indeed clutch, he had no choice but to shoot.  It was flukey he even got the ball in his hands.  Complete contrast to Spurs 2005 and previous Rockets.
 
Spurs Game 5 he ripped off 21 points in the 4th qtr and OT alone.
Of the Spurs final 35 points.  

Since his Laker days he has also passed MJ for most 3bies.


Cumlulative.
What's this "a few" high profile moments nonsense.

As for Dennis Johnson, of course he should be in the Hall.

Concur Skandery, here hoping Bob Horry does it again tonight for the all the board to see.

[Skandery]

*****************Public Service Announcement***************************
NOBODY SHOULD READ THIS MESSAGE TO IMPLY THAT DENNIS JOHNSON OR DENNIS RODMAN DO NOT DESERVE TO BE IN THE HALL OF FAME, BECAUSE I THINK THEY DO!!
********************************************************************

Earned what??

Everybody in the world can say over and over again about Dennis Johnson, Michael Cooper, and whoever else you guys want.  The fact of the matter that no one, NOT ANYBODY, can dispute is that Robert Horry's performances have been at the most opportune/impactful/clutch times, and some of them in the most important series, namely the Finals.  And we're not talking about one isolated incident people.  

This guy has virtually made a career out of being the guy to sink the shot, but not any shot, THE LAST SHOT at the end of the game, but not any game, A PLAYOFF GAME to swing series', but not any series, THE NBA FREAKIN' FINALS.

I dare someone out there to prove me wrong!  Has DJ, Cooper, Cheeks, Jones, or Rodman ever done that.........ONCE, let alone multiple times in a career..........MORE IMPORTANTLY that have lead to championship rings.  You see I'm a believer that if Horry doesn't make the Sacramento shot, the Lakers don't win a ring, thats one! If Horry doesn't make the shot in Game 2 of the Sixer finals, the Lakers don't win that ring, thats two! And if Horry hadn't made the shot in Game 5, the 2005 Playoffs would now be over!!  That's 3.  If he goes on to win this ring that'll be six championships.  If Horry is a regular, warm-blooded, role-playing, human being who misses those shots, Horry would have only three rings.  And nobody here would have to listen to me talk about Horry being a Hall of Famer.  

Nobody, not even a guy as stubborn as you Joe, can deny these simple facts.  The Playoffs *MEAN* more than the regular season.  The Finals Series *MEANS* more than any other series.  The 5th game of a deadlock *MEANS* more than the 4th game of a sweep.  The last second of a game *MEANS* more than the first 2,879 seconds!!  The performance(-S!!!!) of Robert Horry *MEAN* more than those of Cooper, Cheeks, etc.  They are more memorable and they were more important to the outcomes of success that has befallen every team Robert Horry has been a member of.  I think a guy like that deserves a place in the Hall of Fame.  

He can already wave to you, I'm rootin' for him to get the one to flick all the disbelievers off.