Author Topic: Refs not thrilled  (Read 1330 times)

Offline Reality

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Refs not thrilled
« on: May 10, 2005, 10:55:50 AM »
Now wait, didn't Van Gundy specifically mention "ref" last week as the one who called him?  Now he Clintonises that he said "official" meaning instead a non ref.
Ref Association wants him fired.

NEW YORK -- Houston coach Jeff Van Gundy clarified comments about an official telling him Rockets center Yao Ming was being targeted by referees in the first round of the playoffs, and the NBA now considers the matter closed.

"When I referred to an NBA official, people inferred that I was talking about a working NBA referee, instead of an official with the league," Van Gundy said Monday in a statement released by the Rockets. "I was purposely vague because I had given my word that I would keep his name out of it."

The league fined Van Gundy $100,000 -- the largest assessed against a coach -- after saying that an official who was not working the playoffs told him that Yao was being targeted following complaints by Mark Cuban, the owner of the Dallas Mavericks, Houston's first-round opponent.

Van Gundy subsequently apologized publicly for the comments.

"He has also confirmed directly to an NBA representative that, during the Houston-Dallas playoff series, he did not have any communication with a referee [working or non-working] other than, of course, during an ongoing game," NBA deputy commissioner Russ Granik said in a statement Monday. "In fact, his only conversations with league employees during the series were with league personnel in the normal course.

"In light of these circumstances, we now consider the matter to be closed."


The National Basketball Referees Association, which represents NBA officials, however, disagrees the matter is resolved and wants Van Gundy fired according to a statement reported by USA Today.


"Van Gundy flat out lied to the public," the statement said. "And in the process he called into question the reputations of all NBA game officials and the integrity of the game itself. ... The matter will truly be closed only when Van Gundy is fired."


Lamell Morris, NBRA spokesman and lead negotiator, addressed the latest developments in the Van Gundy case on Mike & Mike in the Morning on ESPN Radio on Monday morning.


"There is a tremendous amount of confusion, but the only thing that cannot be confused are the words that Jeff Van Gundy uttered," Morris said on the radio show. "And to now kind of spin it to say that he wasn't actually talking about an official, but for the last week, the integrity of the officials who officiate the games during the playoffs and during the regular season has been called into question.


"Fans have been enraged over the possibility of game fixing, and now he wants to come out and say a week later, after he's on a bit of the hot seat, if you will, that he actually was not talking about a referree, I think it's a bit of a stretch and I think it's unfair. And at the least he should be suspended, at the least. But I think to now say that he wasn't talking about an actual referee is a very egregious lie."


Van Gundy started the saga by telling three reporters at the team hotel in Dallas that a referee not working the playoffs called him after the Rockets went up 2-0 and warned that Yao was mentioned in an online evaluation from supervisor of officials Ronnie Nunn.


Van Gundy also told the reporters that referees "were looking at Yao harder because of Mark's complaints" to the league office, referring to Cuban.

"I did not want the issue to continue, so rather than clarifying my original comments, I chose to let the matter die since I was wrong to bring the official into it to start with," Van Gundy said. "I have been honest during this process, loyal to those involved and have apologized for my comments. I look forward to putting this behind me."


Stern, in Phoenix to present Steve Nash with the MVP trophy Monday night, said he considered the case finished.


"He apologized. He accepted his $100,000 fine," Stern said, "and he acknowledged that his previous statement that he got a call from an NBA referee was, shall I say, in error, was inaccurate. As far as I'm concerned, that makes it over."


In a SportsCenter interview before the Phoenix-Dallas game, Stern explained why, in a surprise, he stopped pressing for Van Gundy to name his source.


"Everybody [with every team] talks to somebody." Stern said. "I got phone calls today about officiating. That pressing [for a name ] is not necessary because as commissioner I encourage … calls from coaches, GMs, owners. This was not a question about pressing."

 

Guest_Randy

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Refs not thrilled
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2005, 11:35:30 AM »
Well, duh, of course the refs want him fired.  The don't want a bullseye painted on their foreheads!  

However, while JVG was simply trying to get an advantage for his big man, the refs SHOULD answer for alot.

They should answer for not being consistent in their calls (i.e. some look for 3 seconds in the paint, others allow 5; some look for moving screens, others ignore them; etc., etc., etc.).

They should have to answer for allowing physical play in some instances but not others.

They should have to answer for allowing an offensive player to dislodge a defensive player by backing into them and using their strength and size to assume better offensive positioning.

They should have to answer for superstar treatment of players.  Speaking of that -- did anyone see game 7 between Houston and Dallas -- early in the first half, Yao already had 2 fouls and when Howard went to the basket (I believe it was Howard), Yao fouled him but they assessed the foul to Mike James -- who wasn't even CLOSE to the play (but they didn't want to give Yao 3 fouls that early in the first half).  This kind of thing happens ALL the time.  

Bottom line is that refs aren't really held accountable -- as long as they can keep the NBA management and coaches happy, they keep their job.  The problem is that strict accordance to the rules isn't what is going to keep EITHER of these two parties happy, is it?

Offline Reality

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Refs not thrilled
« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2005, 12:14:28 AM »
Quote
However, while JVG was simply trying to get an advantage for his big man, the refs SHOULD answer for alot.
Perhaps some feel lying to attempt to get an advantage is wrong.

Imagine.

Guest_Randy

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Refs not thrilled
« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2005, 08:23:22 AM »
Quote
Quote
However, while JVG was simply trying to get an advantage for his big man, the refs SHOULD answer for alot.
Perhaps some feel lying to attempt to get an advantage is wrong.

Imagine.
So let's prosecute EVERY coach who does it -- not just one!!!

Why don't you prosecute Mark Cuban then -- remember, he is the one who stated that Shaq and TD were getting superstar calls -- Shaq for going over the free throw line and dislodging players when going to the basket -- TD for his bunny hop and pushing when going for rebounds --- yet, when JVG complains about Yao, Cuban changes his position completely and states that no players get special calls.  

Every coach in the NBA does it.  I never stated it was right -- simply stating that IF the refs took care of calling games correctly and fairly, then these complaints would be the exception -- not the rule.

Offline Reality

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Refs not thrilled
« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2005, 09:13:38 AM »
Quote
Quote
Quote
However, while JVG was simply trying to get an advantage for his big man, the refs SHOULD answer for alot.
Perhaps some feel lying to attempt to get an advantage is wrong.

Imagine.
So let's prosecute EVERY coach who does it -- not just one!!!

Every coach in the NBA does it.  I never stated it was right -- simply stating that IF the refs took care of calling games correctly and fairly, then these complaints would be the exception -- not the rule.
EVERY coach says they spoke with a ref -woops *NBA Official* who in turn told them their star was getting shafted?

Offline Derek Bodner

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Refs not thrilled
« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2005, 09:55:10 AM »
Two different situations.
- Everyone complains, and agrees, that superstars get preferential treatment.
- Not everyone says that NBA officials have agreed to a conspiracy against a player.

Offline Reality

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Refs not thrilled
« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2005, 10:05:59 AM »
Bingo.

Two different situations.
- Everyone complains, and agrees, that superstars get preferential treatment.
- Not everyone says that NBA officials have agreed to a conspiracy against a player.

and 3rdly and the whole point.

Of those who do say that NBA officials have agreed to a conspiracy against a player, Grunty is the only one (I am aware of) who publicly said as his conspiracy source is the NBA official who called him/Grunty took the call saying official told him directly of such conspiracy.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2005, 10:09:05 AM by Reality »

Guest_Randy

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Refs not thrilled
« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2005, 11:35:53 AM »
So because JVG said that he should be fired?  I don't think so!  

Offline westkoast

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Refs not thrilled
« Reply #8 on: May 11, 2005, 11:41:24 AM »
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So because JVG said that he should be fired?  I don't think so!
Id much rather be fired over that then the real reason he should be fired.......which is losing by 40 in game7 against the Dallas Frickin Mavericks!
http://I-Really-Shouldn't-Put-A-Link-To-A-Blog-I-Dont-Even-Update.com

Offline Derek Bodner

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Refs not thrilled
« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2005, 12:06:10 PM »
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So because JVG said that he should be fired?

Did I say that?  NO!  I just said the situations you described weren't the same.

Offline JoMal

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Refs not thrilled
« Reply #10 on: May 11, 2005, 12:09:45 PM »
Quote
Well, duh, of course the refs want him fired.  The don't want a bullseye painted on their foreheads!  

However, while JVG was simply trying to get an advantage for his big man, the refs SHOULD answer for alot.

They should answer for not being consistent in their calls (i.e. some look for 3 seconds in the paint, others allow 5; some look for moving screens, others ignore them; etc., etc., etc.).

They should have to answer for allowing physical play in some instances but not others.

They should have to answer for allowing an offensive player to dislodge a defensive player by backing into them and using their strength and size to assume better offensive positioning.

They should have to answer for superstar treatment of players.  Speaking of that -- did anyone see game 7 between Houston and Dallas -- early in the first half, Yao already had 2 fouls and when Howard went to the basket (I believe it was Howard), Yao fouled him but they assessed the foul to Mike James -- who wasn't even CLOSE to the play (but they didn't want to give Yao 3 fouls that early in the first half).  This kind of thing happens ALL the time.  

Bottom line is that refs aren't really held accountable -- as long as they can keep the NBA management and coaches happy, they keep their job.  The problem is that strict accordance to the rules isn't what is going to keep EITHER of these two parties happy, is it?
Randy, if they didn't have to answer for the fourth quarter of game six of the 2002 Lakers/Kings playoff game, there is absolutely nothing under God (and HE certainly cannot do anything about them) that will EVER adversely affect how refs will control the outcome of any specific game.

All of these minor little complaints about going after Yao or this official calling that foul while that ref lets it go is so inanely lame in comparison I really can't believe any of you think that anyone actually noticing the discrepancies makes a damned bit of difference to the ethereal beings who ordain who looks good on a basketball playoff game.
"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty.....We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason.....We are not descended from fearful men, not from men who feared to write, to speak, to associate and to defend causes that were for the moment unpopular....We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home."

Offline JoMal

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Refs not thrilled
« Reply #11 on: May 11, 2005, 12:18:21 PM »
The NBA rep/official who said Van Gundy should be fired - this Lamell Morris - should be told to shut the hell up and handed HIS walking papers. Who is he to dictate when an NBA coach should be fired for saying something against his precious little men in zebra shirts?

He does not have the right to open his flapper over the issue except to deny what Van Gundy said was true, that the coach got and accepted his fine for saying it, and, like Stern, announce the incident is closed. To go on a radio program and telling everyone that - oooh, a coach shamed my game officials by saying they have it in for my star center, so to protect our image with the average (and implied - extremely stupid) NBA fan, Houston should show their loyalty to them by firing their coach as a gesture of agreement that the refs are honest.

Is this guy really that stupid or that removed from reality?  
"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty.....We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason.....We are not descended from fearful men, not from men who feared to write, to speak, to associate and to defend causes that were for the moment unpopular....We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home."