Pacers-Indy suspension of game

[Reality]

Wait till you see the goodies on the criminal record of the fan who threw the bottle on Artest.  ESPN has the thrower on tape now in detail.

When you see how far and how high he threw the bottle, depending on how much booze was in it, that could have hurt.

[jn]

Regarding the fat losers who stepped on to the floor and the idea that they posed "no threat."  One name:

Monica Seles.

How could you possibly know what the guy is going to do? In a riot situation there can't be any good reason for someone like that to be coming toward you.  

This morning George Mikan mentioned that he actually had a knife thrown at him on one ocassion and a radiator cap on another.  I wish his comments would go nationwide in the hopes it would shoot down the lame brains who are pinning all of this on the "hip hop generation" of players.  

[spursfan101]

When you see how far and how high he threw the bottle, depending on how much booze was in it, that could have hurt.

My sis and bro were having an argument ( I have a feisty sister) and my sis turned his back on him. He got so frustrated, he threw a half emptly gatorade bottle at her from across the kitchen. As fate would have it at that very moment, she turned around to tell him something, as soon as she did, the PLASTIC bottle shattered on her nose, breaking it!  Who would have thought a plastic bottle would have done so much damage. :huh:  

[westkoast]

Regarding the fat losers who stepped on to the floor and the idea that they posed "no threat."  One name:

Monica Seles.

How could you possibly know what the guy is going to do? In a riot situation there can't be any good reason for someone like that to be coming toward you.  

This morning George Mikan mentioned that he actually had a knife thrown at him on one ocassion and a radiator cap on another.  I wish his comments would go nationwide in the hopes it would shoot down the lame brains who are pinning all of this on the "hip hop generation" of players.

That's exactly what I was thinking.  Not that those guys reached for a knife or anything but in that situation when 2 guys are stepping up to you after an incident like that, you just never know.

[Joe Vancil]

If everyone thinks Ron Artest was considering himself in danger from the fans, why did he go into the stands, where they were?  Most of us have the good sense to walk, if not run, away from danger.

The fans coming onto the court was a matter for security.  Of course, this didn't happen until Artest went into the stands.

The root cause of this isn't the fans.

Heck, REFEREES get  things tossed at them at a far greater frequency than players.  I've yet to see one of them go ballistic and go into the stands.  Yet we blame the fans for provoking Artest?  That's crap.
 

[Guest_Randy]

we blame the fans for provoking Artest?

Joe, I don't know ANYONE making this connection.  However, why is it that JO is suspended 25 games when a fan comes onto the court.  There HAS to be a line betwen the fans and the players -- that line starts and ends with the basketball court.  JO is out for 25 games because of the fact that a fan broke that line and JO is the one who is punished.  Artest DESERVES to get what he got -- why?  Because he broke the rules and went past the line into the stands.  Jackson DESERVES what he got -- because he broke the rules and went past the line into the stands.  JO deserves what he got?  Why?  Because a FAN broke the rules and stepped onto the court.  This IS wrong!  

I'm not totally defending JO -- he deserves to be suspended but I truly question the 25 game suspension -- esp. when I see the league doing NOTHING to prosecute the fan.

Here is the unwritten rule:
  1.  The stands are off-limits to players, the court is off-limits to fans.  

Now, just as Artest and Jackson bear the responsibility for breaking that rule, so is the fan that stepped onto the court.  HE is the one who broke the rule -- not JO.  The league is trying to tell players that they are responsible for their behavior -- which IS absolutely correct -- but why aren't the fans responsible for their behavior as well?

I have a difficult time following your logic on this.  

Let me say this a different way:
  Artest is responsible for his actions no matter WHAT fans did to him (i.e. heckling, throwing a cup, throwing beer, etc.).  He is being punished, and rightfully so, for breaking the rule and entering the stands -- and it doesn't make any difference WHY he did it -- he did it.
  So let's apply that same principle to the fans -- because we should hold the principle as the standard in this situation.  The fan (that walked onto the court) is responsible for his actions no matter WHAT Artest did (i.e. going into the stands, hitting fans, etc.).  The fan SHOULD be punished, rightfully so, for breaking the rule and walking onto the court -- and it doesn't make any difference WHY he did it -- he did it.

Should a fan in the stands be responsible for Artest coming into the stands?  No, absolutely not!  JO should be suspended for throwing a punch -- but only for throwing a punch -- the fact that it was a fan should not come into play here because he was on the court and should be treated as an opposing player.  Therefore, IMO, the suspension should be no longer than Ben Wallace's.

[Joe Vancil]

JO should be suspended for throwing a punch -- but only for throwing a punch -- the fact that it was a fan should not come into play here because he was on the court and should be treated as an opposing player.

And this is where I disagree.

Jermaine O'Neal should be suspended for throwing a punch, but the length of the suspension should be longer because it's a fan involved, regardless of where the fan is.  O'Neal went out of his way to come level the guy.  YES, the fan was on the court, but O'Neal isn't responsible for policing the court.  The reason Stern hit O'Neal with the stiff penalty is because he came running in from out of the area to throw the punch, and because the punch was thrown at a fan.  As Stern likely saw it, the suspension is only partly because of the punch thrown - part of it is because O'Neal wasn't involved and decided to charge in and get involved.

True, the fan shouldn't have been on the court - for any reason.  But just because he's out there doesn't give O'Neal a right to start punching, the same way that fans didn't have the right to start punching when Artest went into the stands.

 

[Guest_Randy]

But Stern, and seemingly few others, aren't holding the fan accountable -- just Jermaine O'Neal.  And THAT is very very wrong!

Vernon Maxwell was suspended 10 games for going into the stands and hitting a fan -- IMO, that's more in line with Jermaine O'Neal coming over and clocking a fan who is walking onto the court towards a fellow player.  IF security had been doing their job, then the guy would have never even been ON the court -- and if security isn't protecting players on THEIR hallowed ground (the court), then I find it VERY hard to tell a player that they can't protect themselves and their teammates.