Kingom of Krishna -What really happened

[westkoast]

There must be someone, somewhere that cares when you tell them you won an argument with yourself.  I mean argument with me.   I mean tell them the discussion/debate/conversation/whatever you wish to term it was with me.

Go for it.

Till then how about reffering to the other article that's word for word.  Or is the associated press also going to have their motives questioned?  :lol:

[Guest_Randy]

So much for Phil never being wrong....Lakers trade Kobe in 99-2000 and they dont win multiple championships.  Simple as that.
 

So you don't think the Lakers would have won with Shaq, Kidd, Marion and the rest of them?

Oh hell the f no.

Ray Allen/Tim Thomas is another story.  As westkoast pointed out the weak perimeter game of Kidd and Marion would have prevented the Lakers from winning a single title.  Shaq would still be ringless and PJ would have been coaching the Knicks.

PJ is loosing more and more of his luster as time wears on.  He was obviously never the X's and O's coach, that was Tex, I always thought PJ was the "people person" coach/motivator.  Sounds like he lost the team when the GREATNESS that is Jerry West bailed.

Unlike other franchises in the NBA the Lakers will always be bigger than their stars, they survived and flourished even after the departures of players like Mikam, West, Wilt, Baylor, Magic, Kareem and Worthy.  The will be back even after Shaq and Kobe, heck Kobe might even earn a couple more rings while Shaq rides off into the Krispy Kreme sunset.

Umm, PLEASE don't say Timmy Thomas -- while the guy CAN light it up from outside he has quit moving without the ball and seems to have the virus from Milwuakee ("I don't know what defense is"us).  Ray Allen I will agree with but adding JKidd and Marion for Kobe would have left the Lakers in the EXACT same position as this years "dream team" -- athletes and good basketball players who can't knock down any open shots.  JKidd would have been great for the Lakers but ONLY if he had someone to run the open floor with and someone to spread the floor so Shaq could operate.  Neither Kidd nor Marion can shoot from outside and neither are the threat in the halfcourt that Kobe is.  JKidd and Ray Allen?  Yeah, I would have pulled the trigger on THAT trade -- even as much as I like Kobe as a player.

[westkoast]

So much for Phil never being wrong....Lakers trade Kobe in 99-2000 and they dont win multiple championships.  Simple as that.
 

So you don't think the Lakers would have won with Shaq, Kidd, Marion and the rest of them?

Oh hell the f no.

Ray Allen/Tim Thomas is another story.  As westkoast pointed out the weak perimeter game of Kidd and Marion would have prevented the Lakers from winning a single title.  Shaq would still be ringless and PJ would have been coaching the Knicks.

PJ is loosing more and more of his luster as time wears on.  He was obviously never the X's and O's coach, that was Tex, I always thought PJ was the "people person" coach/motivator.  Sounds like he lost the team when the GREATNESS that is Jerry West bailed.

Unlike other franchises in the NBA the Lakers will always be bigger than their stars, they survived and flourished even after the departures of players like Mikam, West, Wilt, Baylor, Magic, Kareem and Worthy.  The will be back even after Shaq and Kobe, heck Kobe might even earn a couple more rings while Shaq rides off into the Krispy Kreme sunset.

Umm, PLEASE don't say Timmy Thomas -- while the guy CAN light it up from outside he has quit moving without the ball and seems to have the virus from Milwuakee ("I don't know what defense is"us).  Ray Allen I will agree with but adding JKidd and Marion for Kobe would have left the Lakers in the EXACT same position as this years "dream team" -- athletes and good basketball players who can't knock down any open shots.  JKidd would have been great for the Lakers but ONLY if he had someone to run the open floor with and someone to spread the floor so Shaq could operate.  Neither Kidd nor Marion can shoot from outside and neither are the threat in the halfcourt that Kobe is.  JKidd and Ray Allen?  Yeah, I would have pulled the trigger on THAT trade -- even as much as I like Kobe as a player.

Ray Allen is a whole different story.  Shaq would give him wide open shots and he would nail them most of the time....which in turn would give Shaq more space to operate.  Ray probably would be ok playing second fiddle to Shaq since hes not a super star but has the talent to be just that.  

That would have pleased Shaq.  He gets to decide who comes to the team as the GM and how much they get paid.  He then gets to decide who gets to touch the ball, when, and how many times like the great coach he is.

[Guest_Randy]

koast, but at the same time, trading Kobe for Ray Allen?  NO WAY!!!!  Not without another top player to boot.  If the Lakers HADN'T traded Shaq, Shaq would have been in worse shape this year than he was last -- remember?  When Ben Wallace was beating him all over the floor to loose balls -- Wallace even had time to run AROUND Shaq to intercept balls -- that's saying something, IMO.  It's says Wallace is quicker than I thought and Shaq was a lot SLOWER than I thought (I already knew he was lazy).  

Ray Allen would have been great but I would have wanted a PG or big man to with him -- a young one to build ANOTHER dynasty around (together with Kobe, Allen, etc.).

There's a TON of weight on Kupchak's shoulders right now -- he has to make the right moves to build the Lakers again -- but once again, the Lakers don't hit the bottom of the pile like many teams who once won a title.

[westkoast]

koast, but at the same time, trading Kobe for Ray Allen?  NO WAY!!!!  Not without another top player to boot.  If the Lakers HADN'T traded Shaq, Shaq would have been in worse shape this year than he was last -- remember?  When Ben Wallace was beating him all over the floor to loose balls -- Wallace even had time to run AROUND Shaq to intercept balls -- that's saying something, IMO.  It's says Wallace is quicker than I thought and Shaq was a lot SLOWER than I thought (I already knew he was lazy).  

Ray Allen would have been great but I would have wanted a PG or big man to with him -- a young one to build ANOTHER dynasty around (together with Kobe, Allen, etc.).

There's a TON of weight on Kupchak's shoulders right now -- he has to make the right moves to build the Lakers again -- but once again, the Lakers don't hit the bottom of the pile like many teams who once won a title.

I was speaking on the wishfull thinking trade of Kidd/Allen for Kobe.  No way in hell would I trade Kobe straight up for Allen.  He just doesnt have the playoff expierence or that kill everyone mentality Kobe does.  Nor can he slash and finish as well.  Still would have worked out on the Lakers squad.

People ask me all the time "Are you going to root for Shaq in Miami" and I always reply with "I dont know.  Its hard to say.  I like him as a player still but for him to finally decide he needs to work hard in the off-season after 4 years pisses me off"

[Derek Bodner]

erm....where's this perception that Shawn Marion can't shoot the 3 coming from?  And behing Rick Fox?  Are you f'n kidding me?  

[Guest_Randy]

koast, but at the same time, trading Kobe for Ray Allen?  NO WAY!!!!  Not without another top player to boot.  If the Lakers HADN'T traded Shaq, Shaq would have been in worse shape this year than he was last -- remember?  When Ben Wallace was beating him all over the floor to loose balls -- Wallace even had time to run AROUND Shaq to intercept balls -- that's saying something, IMO.  It's says Wallace is quicker than I thought and Shaq was a lot SLOWER than I thought (I already knew he was lazy). 

Ray Allen would have been great but I would have wanted a PG or big man to with him -- a young one to build ANOTHER dynasty around (together with Kobe, Allen, etc.).

There's a TON of weight on Kupchak's shoulders right now -- he has to make the right moves to build the Lakers again -- but once again, the Lakers don't hit the bottom of the pile like many teams who once won a title.

I was speaking on the wishfull thinking trade of Kidd/Allen for Kobe.  No way in hell would I trade Kobe straight up for Allen.  He just doesnt have the playoff expierence or that kill everyone mentality Kobe does.  Nor can he slash and finish as well.  Still would have worked out on the Lakers squad.

People ask me all the time "Are you going to root for Shaq in Miami" and I always reply with "I dont know.  Its hard to say.  I like him as a player still but for him to finally decide he needs to work hard in the off-season after 4 years pisses me off"

Always have been a Laker fan -- never was a Shaq fan.  Actually, I am a fan of what Shaq does of the court (note that I never said what he says) as long as that doesn't include his attempts at acting and singing/rapping.  Shaq, IMO, gives as much if not more than any other NBA player when it comes to time (and yes, money) off the court.  

But as a player?  No, he is way too arrogant, proud and lazy for me to have a great deal of respect for him -- EVER!  I don't hate him because of the great work he has done off the court but my favorite NBA players have always been those players who have given 110% on the court -- unfortunately, that makes me a Shaq fan for only ONE season!