PhillyArena Forums
PhillyArena Community => Philadelphia 76ers => Topic started by: TheGuiltyParty on June 28, 2008, 09:32:11 AM
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I know Reggie Evans' name came up in trade talks along with Andre Miller before the draft for Shawn Marion. At the time, it seemed like he was just filler but now that we've taken Speights, I'm wondering if Evans is as good as gone. Most of us assume that Stefanski will acquire a PF one way (free agency) or another (trade) so if that's the case, then our depth chart will look like:
1: Miller/Williams
2: Iguodala/Green
3: Young/Carney
4: NEW PF/Evans/Speights/Hill
5: Dalembert/Smith/Blount
It would seem to me that the removal of Evans off of this roster would open up a decent amount of PT for Speights. Also, when you consider that the new PF will probably chew up 36 minutes a game and Sam will take up 33 minutes, that leaves just 27 minutes a game for the reserves 4/5. I'm sure Mo will run a small lineup during the game with Thad getting 4 or 5 minutes at the 4, so that trims the free minutes left to 22 to be split between Smith, Evans, and Speights.
Considering his salary and the lack of a need for him, should Reggie Evans find himself having a "One and Done" career in Philly? I think so.
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It's possible that reggie evans had a 'career' year in philadelphia and may never have more trade value than he has now, i think the sixers should explore ALL options
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By the way, I don't want to come off as someone who is NOT a fan of Evans. I think he's one of the very few Sixers who actually showed up in the playoffs but my point is that when I factor his salary against his production against the minutes he'll take away from the Speight Train.... well, I think that we should look into moving him. That said, I wouldn't trade him just for the sake of trading him... I would want some value in return.
Wouldn't Memphis make some sense since they have some holes in their frontcourt and way too many PGs?
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Reggie Evans is a bench player, pure and simple, he has one very very good skill and a lot of very lacking skills. If traded, I expect fans will bemoan the return cause they don't think it's enough.
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Reggie Evans is a bench player, pure and simple, he has one very very good skill and a lot of very lacking skills. If traded, I expect fans will bemoan the return cause they don't think it's enough.
You're not kidding. I posted this over on realgm as well and there are some people that have a bromance going on with Evans.
By the way, when Iguodala signs his massive deal, do you believe he will instantly have the worst contract on the team? Right now it's a toss up between Dalembert's 3 years/$34MIL, Green's 3 years/$11MIL, and Evans 3 years/$14.6MIL. I think Dalembert's is still probably the hardest to move so he's the worst right now but wouldn't Iguodala override him?
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No I don't - I've had this debate too many times about andre iguodala - the nba is what it is, iguodala is a 10+ mil a year player in todays nba, if the sixers don't give it to him someone else will
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Evans is a candidate to be dumped if it clears up more cap room (either this year, to a team with a trade exception or memphis, or for next year). That being said, his odds of being trained IMO aren't any more or less than before the draft, at least until Speights shows he can be a 20+ mpg contributor, and improves his defense.
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No I don't - I've had this debate too many times about andre iguodala - the nba is what it is, iguodala is a 10+ mil a year player in todays nba, if the sixers don't give it to him someone else will
+1
Being the 12 highest paid SF in the league will give him a huge payday, but he will be getting market value for a good but not great swing-man.
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If Reggie had a smaller contract and we were not trying to clear cap space I would be all for keeping him. I'm not in favor of dumping him because I like what he brings to the table as a player and team mate, especially for such a young team. He is most certainly limited in his skill set and is a 15-20 mpg back-up on a good team, but he has value. He brings a toughness and energy to the team that is difficult to measure stats wise, and would be a great guy to have busting on Speights every day in practice. If we trade him and free up cap space I would be OK with it, but if there is any way WG can go instead I'd be a lot happier.
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I would absolutely prefer for Willie Green to go first if it's strictly a salary dump. Anyone care to put odds on whether Green will be in a Sixer uni come October??
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I feel the same about WG as I do about Evans. The though of either as a starter makes me cringe, but both are good role players to bring off the bench. Both fill a role that is otherwise lacking. I would trade either to free up cap if that is what is needed to land a premiere FA like Brand (neither are as valuable as KK was.) But I don't mind having both as key role players off the bench.
Green is a solid defender of quicker, physical small guards. Miller can cover similar players- but he is not long for this team. I don't see any of the other guards being able to keep up with the quicker sg's in the league (DWade being the prime example.) Not that WG shuts anyone down, but he's a better defender against quicker guards than Lou, Iguodala or Carney.
Maybe Carney has the quicks to develop into a player who can be a defensive specialist?
I certainly wouldn't keep WG just for this reason, but if we can't get rid of him I would not mind havingf him as a 15 mpg bench player. 3 M may be a bit high for a streaky shooting, undersized scoring guard, but he is not killing the cap.
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According to sixerfans latest update... we're shopping Green hard right now. That makes a lot of sense with Dala shifting to the 2 and Young to the 3. I mean, I just don't see Willie getting the minutes that he has in the past and that could cause a problem.
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According to sixerfans latest update... we're shopping Green hard right now. That makes a lot of sense with Dala shifting to the 2 and Young to the 3. I mean, I just don't see Willie getting the minutes that he has in the past and that could cause a problem.
But are there any TAKERS for willie green?
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My guess is no which is why he's still a Sixer. I mean, who's going to trade for Willie before July 1st? I would think that teams would try all sorts of other angles first and then maybe in August getting Green. This is the same as going to a bar at 8PM and leaving at 8:15 with the ugliest girl in the joint. Most guys would prefer to stick around until 2:30 when last call is announced before taking some Beast home or better yet... going to a beast's home.
Am I wrong??
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My guess is no which is why he's still a Sixer. I mean, who's going to trade for Willie before July 1st? I would think that teams would try all sorts of other angles first and then maybe in August getting Green. This is the same as going to a bar at 8PM and leaving at 8:15 with the ugliest girl in the joint. Most guys would prefer to stick around until 2:30 when last call is announced before taking some Beast home or better yet... going to a beast's home.
Am I wrong??
My guess is that after last call we end up having to take home Willie Green for another season. I'm fine with that as long as he agrees to stay in his room and sit on the bench.
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Willie green didn't keep starting willie green or giving him too many minutes
Mo Cheeks did that - if mo can be convinced what willie truly is (to me he's like the 8th or 9th man in the rotation) then fine, keep willie, but if mo is stempted to make him the starter, then he's gotta go
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So what you're saying is that Mo Cheeks can't quit Willie Green? Man... this is like Brokeback Sixers.
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So what you're saying is that Mo Cheeks can't quit Willie Green? Man... this is like Brokeback Sixers.
I think we need to send you back to your hotel room with your white powder...
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This thread has gotten out of control.
Based on SF76's recent report, I got the feeling that it won't take much on another team's part to acquire Evans. Besides Evans and Green... I imagine Booth is another guy we are looking to move. Then again, he's a veteran and has a 1 year deal at the minimum.
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I agree with others that we should certainly explore any trade opportunities involving Evans. I personally thought he got way way overrated during the playoffs. Not to say that he didn't have a good series, but people act as though his one dimensional skill set is the glue to our success. One of my larger pet peeves this past season was how we'd continue to give Reggie touches in the paint, which is essentially turning the ball over. His toughness, intensity, and rebounding presence are nice things to have off the bench, but if moving him gives us the extra flexibility we need to woo our targeted FA then we'd be foolish not to pull the plug on Evans.
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i thought evans got overrated by the announcers but the fans all realized that his great play was going to be short lived and to enjoy it while it lasts, which the last 2 games show...it didn't. I'd like to keep evans but if the right deal comes around he shouldn't hold anything back. Oh and i agree anklebreaker, the man shouldn't get any touches (no kaman joke).
*this in no way changes my thoughts that reggie evans is a cross between wilt chamberlin, Ali, barry sanders, and Mr. T. a giant among men.
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*this in no way changes my thoughts that reggie evans is a cross between wilt chamberlin, Ali, barry sanders, and Mr. T. a giant among men.
As if there was any doubt- although I would exchange Barry Sanders for Barry white- they have the same voice- and you know that draws to ladies to arena- insert Wilt joke here.
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So now that Brand is a Sixer, does that mean that Evans is definitely gone? I think Ed would probably love to move him for a shooter to bring off of the bench.
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If he could get that done that would only further cement his reputation for me. The only thing is we become VERY young with our bigs off the ench
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I just hope we don't try and do too much too fast. I'll admit that I like Evans off the bench... he's a big reason why we were so effective in rebounding (and I would love for Speights to learn from him for a year).
If it's a good trade, then do it. However, if it's only so-so, we'll be in a better shape to contend NEXT year (2009-10) because (a) we'll have the MLE, (b) we'll have next years' draft pick, (c) all of our young guys will have had a year to mature.
The only reason to continue to be aggressive is if Miller won't resign. 24 Hours ago, I thought that was definite. Now... who knows.
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My only concern is we need a shooter who can contribute and Evans may be our only option in a trade if we're not moving Igoudala
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One can only hope evans is a goner...dude will probably never have a higher profile
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My only concern is we need a shooter who can contribute and Evans may be our only option in a trade if we're not moving Igoudala
Plus we need Reggie to add to the deadline trade of Miller for Baron Davis. ;)
I think Reggie starts the year here and hangs on until the trade deadline depending on Speights' progress. Just to be extra cautious with a guy coming off of an achilles injury I would not thin out our big man depth too fast.
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Ugh, bite your tongue, not even funny, i'd rather have gilbert arenas on the sixers than baron davis
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My only concern is we need a shooter who can contribute and Evans may be our only option in a trade if we're not moving Igoudala
Plus we need Reggie to add to the deadline trade of Miller for Baron Davis. ;)
LOL! Is it possible that Elton Brand filmed an episode of Punk'd with Kyle Korver a week ago? I mean, did Brand call Davis up and talk the Clippers up and about how they could win together and then last night while Davis was getting in his car to go home from some club, out came the camera crews and Elton Brand with a Sixer Uni on? Will we get to see this?
Korver sort of set this up (not by his own doing) by being traded for the cap space and a draft pick that helped the Sixers get Brand so I think this is all too perfect.
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My only concern is we need a shooter who can contribute and Evans may be our only option in a trade if we're not moving Igoudala
Plus we need Reggie to add to the deadline trade of Miller for Baron Davis. ;)
LOL! Is it possible that Elton Brand filmed an episode of Punk'd with Kyle Korver a week ago? I mean, did Brand call Davis up and talk the Clippers up and about how they could win together and then last night while Davis was getting in his car to go home from some club, out came the camera crews and Elton Brand with a Sixer Uni on? Will we get to see this?
Korver sort of set this up (not by his own doing) by being traded for the cap space and a draft pick that helped the Sixers get Brand so I think this is all too perfect.
That is funny because it is someone else's team.
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You are correct but we've lost a lot of talented players in this city the past couple of years (Iverson, TO, Forsberg) and so I'm tired of seeing episodes of SportsCenter dominated by talk of how our ex-star player is going to help his new team win something meanwhile we're told that "we're going in a different direction". It's about time we get hear how we got the player and we're headed up.
Screw the Clippers and screw Penny Marshall, Billy Crystal, Bill Simmons, and any other C-List celeb that has season tickets to watch them. Take that!
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I think frankie muniz is a clippers fan, i feel bad for him cause he's going to look 15 forever
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I think frankie muniz is a clippers fan, i feel bad for him cause he's going to look 15 forever
That. Just. Happened.
I do believe the name of Frankie Muniz being mentioned on any Sixers' board is a first. I feel like confetti should fall from the sky right now with the sound of casino jackpot bells filling the air. Game over, my friend. You should get a prize for that.
By the way, screw Frankie Muniz. I've had an unknown hatred for that kid (how old is he now??) ever since he first appeared on my tv set during an Eagles' game. Everybody Hates Frankie.... FACT!
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I don't mind frankie, and early malcolm in the middle was quite funny (though dewey was really the star)...
How can you hate cody banks?
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I don't mind frankie, and early malcolm in the middle was quite funny (though dewey was really the star)...
How can you hate cody banks?
I don't know how, but I thank the gods I somehow missed Cody Banks.
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Twice, not one,but TWO cody banks movies :)
Anthony Anderson is in the wsecond one, i like anthony anderson
BTW - strangest acting role (after the fact) that i think i realized recently was that dane cook was the co-star in the dennis rodman action movie, way back when, he wasn't funny then either
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Anthony Anderson played Teddy on Hangtime...and Teddy could hit the 3 ball
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Anthony Anderson played Teddy on Hangtime...and Teddy could hit the 3 ball
Wasn't he also in Kangaroo Jack? I'm pretty sure Jack could get on the break and throw it down with his big-time ups. I hate me right now.
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Back to Evans, someone else said it best... if we can't get something decent for him (a shooter) then I wouldn't move him now. I'm fairly happy with this roster as is and I wouldn't make another move unless it was for the right player at the right price.
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If someone agress to take willie green on as well, i'd trade reggie evans for almost anyone, i just HATE that mo can still be tempted by that black ho
I really hope someone gets the black ho reference
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If someone agress to take willie green on as well, i'd trade reggie evans for almost anyone, i just HATE that mo can still be tempted by that black ho
I really hope someone gets the black ho reference
That one is over my head... hopefully or else it's just wrong.
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You haven't seen the whoopi goldberg classic EDDIE?
Edwina "Eddie" Franklin: Hey, Patton, pass the ball! What are you, the black hole of basketball? Come on!
Joe Sparks: (to Stacy) You going to let her call you a black ho?
Darren Taylor: Man, a HOLE.
Stacy Patton: What's a black hole?
Polynice, Olden: A black hole is a theoretical object in space. It is so dense that matter collapses... and light itself cannot escape. (shoots his free throw)
Terry Hastings: I knew that.
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Ah Olden Polynice.....I was a fan
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LOL! It isn't so much that I missed Eddie as I somehow missed both Cody Banks' movies (I just learned there were two of them) but I avoided Eddie. Wasn't John Salley in that?
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Yeah, john salley was in that, eddie is so bad it's enjoyable, iw atch it every time i find it on cable (and hackers and empire records)
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Yeah, john salley was in that, eddie is so bad it's enjoyable, iw atch it every time i find it on cable (and hackers and empire records)
I'm a sucker for Hackers. I can't help but laugh the entire time I watch that film. Oh god, I hope that comes out on blu-ray soon.
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Hackers is so bad it's good - plus it's angelina jolie before all the implants and such.
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Hackers is so bad it's good - plus it's angelina jolie before all the implants and such.
I seriously love Jolie in that flick but not so much anymore. I did see "Wanted" (ugh!) and she looked extremely hot in a couple of scenes.
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I'll see wanted when it comes out on dvd, i just don't pay to see much any more, not worth it, and people suck
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The best part of hackers, if you care about these things is that almost everyone in there has gone on to be at least recognizable (except the phreak)...i mean crazy dude who was in scream and scooby doo...eli stone was also in trainspotting and has done a lot of british stuff....jolie...and of course jesse bradford who was in the amazing and underrated king of the hill movie.
Hell, it even has bunk from the write and what the HELL was lorraine bracco doing in it?
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I don't think so. Evans isn't supposed to be a starter. He's an AWESOME rebounder, especially off the bench. His body always is beat up, and he can't score much. He's suited for the backup role. And he only played 23.2 MPG, so it's not like it'll be that drastic of a decline. And besides, at least of now, we don't have a backup center, so that means that will probably have to be Jason Smith's job. Speights isn't ready, and Thad will be a SF, so Evans has to be our backup PF. If he could get us a shooter...then we could trade him, but he's not a goner.
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Evans is an awesome offensive rebounder, and i'm still waiting to see what percentage of his offensive rebounds are due to his own piss poor shooting from 2 feet and less
He's not needed on a team OVERWHELMED with power forwards
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The great thing about this team now versus where we were last year, is that we are now at a point where we need to start trading and drafting for position of need and not just stockpiling talent. I think Evans' for what he is (role player) but if he is the piece that we need to give up to obtain a shooter... then so long Reggie.
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We have one center, so unless we sign someone, Jason Smith will probably be our backup C as of now. Speights isn't ready, Thad's a SF, so Reggie's our backup PF as of now.
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We have one center, so unless we sign someone, Jason Smith will probably be our backup C as of now. Speights isn't ready, Thad's a SF, so Reggie's our backup PF as of now.
I don't think Eddie's afraid to test the young guys. I also think he wouldn't mind slotting Thad to PF and running from time to time.
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Exactly. I'm sure Mo will run with a small lineup at times that will look something like this...
PG: Miller
SG: Williams
SF: Iguodala
PF: Young
C: Brand
I don't think the sky will fall if Evans is moved but I just don't want to see him sold for 10 cents on a dollar.
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Exactly. I'm sure Mo will run with a small lineup at times that will look something like this...
PG: Miller
SG: Williams
SF: Iguodala
PF: Young
C: Brand
I don't think the sky will fall if Evans is moved but I just don't want to see him sold for 10 cents on a dollar.
We agree again!
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If this team every did win it all, I can picture Reggie as looking like the happiest man on earth. He would put Mark Madson to shame. The same part of me that hated to see KK go would regret losing Evans.
KK and Evans could not be more different as players, but they both have that passion fo the game. There's no doubt those guys are not in it for the $'s or for ego.
Then again I would trade him in an instant for a mercenary who can defend and had a dead eye jumper. Maybe another Ron Anderson?
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I think the Raptors desperately need to shore up their frontline with rebounding and toughness. What with JO being incredibly injury prone, Bargnani being possibly the worst rebounding 7 footer in the NBA and them trading away Nesterovic, I can see them being tempted into Kapono for Evans swap--Bosh can't do it all, and nobody on the team strikes me as a good rebounder at his position other than him. If I were Ed Stefanski, I would propose a trade after a Sixers--Raptors game (where we would be guaranteed to murder them on the boards): Kapono for Evans. I can easily see them tempted to go for something like that. We could even throw in the Minnesota 2nd rounder to sweeten the pot.
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I'm not a Kapono fan but I just can't see the Raptors doing that. Jason was pretty solid for the Raptors last year and I'm sure Colangelo is of the belief that with O'Neal AND Bosh down low that there will be even more kick-outs for 3's.
I just don't think there are all that many teams that would want Evans right now given his contract and lack of offensive production. If that's the case, I'm not completely opposed to the idea of at least looking at what Jason Smith could get for us (please: no mention of Cook).
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I just hate Kapono's contract. he makes 1M more per year than KK, and I see him as a weaker player. He can shoot, but he's a limited player on the floor for someone who is to make over 6M for the next 3 years.
Mat Carrol is similarly limitted, and locked into the 2nd year of 6yr/29M contract, but at least that is a cheaper price.
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Kapono will expire in the same year and Reggie Evans and makes slightly more money. At this point, I don't think cap room is an issue anymore. To paraphrase someone from realgm, worrying about cap room is the job of lower tier teams. We're done with that :)
We need to be thinking about filling needs and holes in trades, drafts and Free Agency now, and I think Kapono would do just fine.
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Most teams worry about the luxury tax, not just the lower tier teams...in a city where the team doesn't exactly draw well even when they are winning down the stretch and a corporate owner answerable to a board and stockholders, I doubt that 'whatever it takes' is a mantra floating around the halls of the sixers front office...things like paying the luxury tax and cap room matter to the sixers, it's naive to dismiss them regardless of brand or not
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Most teams worry about the luxury tax, not just the lower tier teams...in a city where the team doesn't exactly draw well even when they are winning down the stretch and a corporate owner answerable to a board and stockholders, I doubt that 'whatever it takes' is a mantra floating around the halls of the sixers front office...things like paying the luxury tax and cap room matter to the sixers, it's naive to dismiss them regardless of brand or not
After yesterday, I'm fairly certain the Sixers aren't that concerned about box office draw. Dismissing the talk about the tax is silly and while I believe Ed should continue to keep on top on the cap and not allow bad contracts to pull this team down... that said, I don't think a $1MIL difference is what would prevent an Evans for Kapono trade to happen.
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Yeah, see, that's why they didn't trade iverson for a while, cause they felt he was still a box office draw, even while the team is losing...I saw it last year, philadelphia isn't a basketball town, they don't show up to support the team as much as they do, say, the flyers...who get the fans every night every season mostly...and again, corporate ownership in professional sports is something i dislike immensely...i like that the nfl doesn't really allow it
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Iverson wasn't a box office draw for the final 3 years of his time in Philly. I agree that this isn't a basketball town but when there's excitement in the air (see: 2001), it's an AWESOME place to be. I think the Brand signing will help fill that building again. Also, the difference between that building in November versus March was night and day. The fans started coming back after that horrible start and I think they'll continue to come back unless something unfortunate happens.
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I disagree that this isn't a basketball town. I agree the fans don't come out when the team is bad, but I think that is in part BECAUSE this is a basketball town. The basketball history is rich and goes back a long way. The fans here are knowledgeable and they have seen a lot of highs and lows. They get behind Big 5 basketball...High School ball...and when they feel the pros are giving them a worthwhile product, they go and they pay attention.
I am a Sixers devotee but I didn't go to agame last year until the playoffs. Not because I don't love the game or follow the game (I watched every game on tv, and do that almost every season). I'm just smart enough to know that spending that kind of cheddar isn't something I can always do if the team isn't winning.
I think you have a lot of basketball people in the Philly area, and they're like really knowledgeable film buffs. They're not going to pay to go see schlock....sure they might check it on cable, or rent it...download/...whatever...but they know what's worth seeing in person and what doesn't make the cut.
I actually feel that attendance is a tough way to tell if it's a basketball town or not. I take pride in the fact that we won't throw blind support behind a team that gives sub-par effort. It shows we know what we're looking at and we're not being duped
Just my opinion.
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It's an opinion i've heard before, and I don't buy into. Philadelphia is a hockey town, winning or losing people show up for the flyers, knowing that they'll disappint in the playoffs, year after year after year, people show up for the eagles, year after year after year, but they only show up for the sixers if there's a transcendent talent or they are winning (and there were empty seats at last years playoff games, so it's not even just winning either)
Supporting a team (as a city) when it's winning isn't indicative of a town being a 'sports' town, it's indicative of bandwagoning and front running...(i think that's the term)...at least that's how i see it...boston for instance, is a baseball town, year in and year out, good or bad, sox fans are out in force....(they stunk for a while too don't forget)...Los Angeles really isn't an anything town, ultimate bandwagon city...overall, yes there are devoted fans, but they make up a small majority.
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Does it mean nothing that so many Flyers attendees aren't knowledgeable and are there because they've been given tickets by their employer or a friend or something?
A Canadian friend of mine who is a REAL hockey guy comments regularly how when he goes to Flyers games he's amazed at how little the crowd understands what they're watching, and how many people seem to be first timers or casual fans. It's not the rabid crowd of die-hards it used to be. A lot of those people are at home watching on TV.....just like the Sixers. I think the difference is, Hockey is more violent and because of the price point is percieved to be a bigger event for the casual fan to take advantage of seeing when they can.
I think there are more Sixer fans in my position than you may be giving credit to. My small circle of friends represents about 15 or so who fit the descripion I laid out. I would imagine there are many in the same boat.
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We aren't talking knowledge level, we are talking fan support of a team, showing up...knowledge level most phillies fans are morons stuck in the 70s as well, but they show up seemingly more often than they do for the sixers.
Quick comparison question - don't know the answer
What percentage of seats were empty at the Wachovia Center during the playoffs last year vs What percentage of seats were empty at CBP during the playoffs last year (where the phillies were much more embarassing than the sixers in relation)
BTW - quite a bit of the sixer season ticket holder base is ALSO corporate....
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Agreed, but when the Sixers product is good, you get a very blue-collar crowd filling the remaining seats.
Couldn't disagree more about knowledge vs. fan support. To me, what makes a city a "basketball city" or a "football city" is the level of interest and knowledge of the fans. I don't believe that's reflected in whether or not someone goes to the game. I feel it's reflected in WHY they do or don't go to the game. Philly has such a basketball tradition that goes FAR beyond the Sixers. Actually, the area has far more basketball history and tradition than any of the other sports, probably. As Isaid...Big 5...the Palestra...The Public League...tons of Philly area born Pros...a good amount of stars, in fact...Sonny Hill's camps...I don't want to belabor the issue, but I don't think empty seats at Sixer games is a great barometer for whether or not this is a basketball town.
Likewise, if the Eagles went south and the fans decided to show their disfavor by not going, I don't think that should tarnish the view of football interest in Philadelphia
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1. Showing up when a team is winning has been referred to earlier in my post
2. Dear god I'm tired of Philadelphia being referred to as blue collar...PITTSBURGH is blue collar, Philadelphia as much as it wants to be just isn't a blue collar city folks...it's a myth as far as i'm concerned, and it's as irritating as rocky being considered a sports icon for philadelphia.
We'll just have to agree to disagree on the knowledge base, one like you said your small group of friends, it's a small group, it's not reflective as the majority of basketball 'fans' any more than this board or realgm is a larger representation of the overall fanbase, the devoted 'fanatical' fan is a small percentage of any fan base, and those are the ones posting on the internet and calling sports radio...a city is defined by its overall fan base in my opinion not just the samll rabid portion
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If this team every did win it all, I can picture Reggie as looking like the happiest man on earth. He would put Mark Madson to shame. The same part of me that hated to see KK go would regret losing Evans.
KK and Evans could not be more different as players, but they both have that passion fo the game. There's no doubt those guys are not in it for the $'s or for ego.
Then again I would trade him in an instant for a mercenary who can defend and had a dead eye jumper. Maybe another Ron Anderson?
Or...James Posey perhaps? Sucks we used up our MLE.
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Now that I think about it... what town is a basketball town? MSG has been empty plenty of nights, Miami was a ghost town last season (they have prettier places to be) and even a place like Sacramento, which is regarded as a great fan base, only filled 80% of their tiny building last year.
What city in the NBA shows up when the team isn't winning?? We can't really judge Utah since they make the playoffs every year but we know that "Rip City" wasn't buzzing with excitement or a filled arena when John Nash was running the team. Boston was certainly empty 2 seasons ago.
This is no less a basketball town than anyplace else. The difference here is that this is a HUGE sports town and so when we compare apples to oranges, we think the fanbase is weak.
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And I think this is a basketball town. This may sound mean/racist, but one of the reasons Philly has such a basketball history is the players that come from here, i.e. the inner city. Everybody in the poorer neighborhoods would probably love basketball, but they just can't afford to come out to many games. Basketball isn't totally a white man's game, which is what most of the crowd is, which is why we don't get the biggest crowds for the Sixers, unless there's a reason.
This town will always love every sport, and just because they don't always show up, doesn't tell the whole story to me.
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What city in the NBA shows up when the team isn't winning?? We can't really judge Utah since they make the playoffs every year but we know that "Rip City" wasn't buzzing with excitement or a filled arena when John Nash was running the team. Boston was certainly empty 2 seasons ago.
Problem is not only were they losing but they had utter douchebags on the roster, a lot of the reason the fans said they weren't showing up wasn't the losing, but the 'jailblazer' attitude that permeated the team...
This town will always love every sport, and just because they don't always show up, doesn't tell the whole story to me.
Not sure they are a big polo town...
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1. Showing up when a team is winning has been referred to earlier in my post
2. Dear god I'm tired of Philadelphia being referred to as blue collar...PITTSBURGH is blue collar, Philadelphia as much as it wants to be just isn't a blue collar city folks...it's a myth as far as i'm concerned, and it's as irritating as rocky being considered a sports icon for philadelphia.
We'll just have to agree to disagree on the knowledge base, one like you said your small group of friends, it's a small group, it's not reflective as the majority of basketball 'fans' any more than this board or realgm is a larger representation of the overall fanbase, the devoted 'fanatical' fan is a small percentage of any fan base, and those are the ones posting on the internet and calling sports radio...a city is defined by its overall fan base in my opinion not just the samll rabid portion
I didn't say Philly was "blue collar", and I agree with you on that point, so I'm not sure where that comes from. There is a VERY blue collar element to the crowd was all I said. Believe it or not there are plenty of blue collar folks in the Philly are (especially S. Philly, Delaware County, NE Philly, N. Philly and South Jersey) while it isn't necessarily a blue collar town on the whole. It's status as a union hotbed encourages that reputation.
I used myself and my friends as an example...that's all. If we're judging a city by full seats, then that would mean that an arena full of people who are at a game, but have no prior knowledge of the would lend credibility and earn you the reputation of being a "basketball town".....I'm not comfortable with that criteria. Cirque du Soleil sells out EVERY time it comes....but as a theatre artist I can tell you Philly is definitely not an avant garde arts town.
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I don't believe that saying people can't go to a game because they can't afford it is racist.
Again... look at ANY market when they are losing...
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/attendance
.... and tell me who fills an arena when the team sucks? The Sixers were brutal for the first half of the season which is why it took forever for that building to even come close to looking full.
Here's our rank in attendance
2008: 23rd (No marquee player; playoffs)
2007: 29th (no Iverson and no playoffs)
2006: 21st (Iverson, Webber, and the return of Mo)
2005: 10th (Iverson, Webber, and playoffs)
2004: 4th (Iverson and Randy Ayers, Chad Ford; no playoffs)
2003: 4th (Iverson, LB, and playoffs)
Point being... when there's a buzz in the air, people show up. I also find it interesting that we ended up finishing 23rd in attendance when we were 29th for most of the year.
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Additionally, there is a feeling of ownership and pride in Philadelphia basketball circles, and the attitude is "Why would I go see the terrible Sixers when I can go see St. Joe/Nova at the Palestra or a pick-up game down the street with 3 NBA players in it?" (Not really a quote...hahaha...bad punctuation)
Sixers fans make you earn their attendance. I think that's really cool
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Sixers fans make you earn their attendance. I think that's really cool
This goes both ways... that rule seems to apply to all teams in all markets. The NFL is different because there are only 8 home games per season. Flyer fans are downright fanatical and god bless them. NBA fans in general do NOT show up if the product is perceived to be bad no matter if you're in Manhattan, Philly, Chicago, LA, or Sacramento.
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Agreed, but in my experience Flyer fans are fanatical, but the building being full doesn't really impress me. It's such a corporate environment down there. Every time I go I get more jaded about that. The fans are out there...I just wish they could afford to go to the games instead of the rest of what I see in that lower bowl
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I don't believe that saying people can't go to a game because they can't afford it is racist.
Well, it kind of is, it has nothing to do with race as much as it has to do with socio-economic status, poor white people can't afford to go to sixers games either.
If you can find it, check out the 'sounds black' research released recently in regards to pay scales.
The NFL is different because there are only 8 home games per season.
Telle that to jacksonville or phoenix...
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Agreed, but in my experience Flyer fans are fanatical, but the building being full doesn't really impress me. It's such a corporate environment down there. Every time I go I get more jaded about that. The fans are out there...I just wish they could afford to go to the games instead of the rest of what I see in that lower bowl
Luckily (well, not so much these days) I'm in the mortgage biz and have been given numerous tickets in the lower bowl from banks and and Flyers' players over the years. You're absolutely right that the building is VERY corporate and that's because a lot of those seats are owned by big business who use them as handouts.
By the way, I don't know if you guys have the chance to party in the club boxes for the Sixers or Flyers but it's HEAVEN! Decent food, solid view, and free drinks. By free drinks, I mean that they have an open bar where you make your own. Finish off a bottle of vodka and bam... they bring you another one. Ahhh, that is the life.
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You're absolutely right that the building is VERY corporate and that's because a lot of those seats are owned by big business who use them as handouts.
The sixers are no different in the lower level seats...a lot of corporate ignorance going on down there...it's the way professional sports works, it's not unique to the flyers.
Damn, now i miss kevin
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You're absolutely right that the building is VERY corporate and that's because a lot of those seats are owned by big business who use them as handouts.
The sixers are no different in the lower level seats...a lot of corporate ignorance going on down there...it's the way professional sports works, it's not unique to the flyers.
Damn, now i miss kevin
I agree. For just as many handouts I've gotten for the Flyers, I've gotten even more for the Sixers. When the Spectrum was open though... I remember going to Flyers' games with my old man and the lower bowl being INSANE. The Sixers were never really like that. Corporations have greatly changed the vibe of a Flyers games but not as much at a Sixers because Flyer fans are fanatical.
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You can get tickets to a sixers game for $14 in the upper bowl. I tried to get tickets to a flyers playoff game, and unless I wanted back row behind the net, it was over $100. The prices are ridiculous at flyers game :/
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The prices are ridiculous at a flyers game because people are willing to pay higher prices to see the playoff games.
The prices are low at sixers gams because, well, i would guess they are having trouble filling those seats, and the playoffs on tv were evident about that.
Simple supply and demand folks...
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Simple supply and demand folks...
Wasn't asking why, just saying it sucks.
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Simple supply and demand folks...
Wasn't asking why, just saying it sucks.
Try getting laker tickets ANYWHERE when the sixers are coming to town...hell clippers/sixers might be harder to get this year as well with brand hatred
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The other big difference between hockey and b-ball is that basketball is a much friendlier TV sport, while I find hockey is a significantly better sport to watch live. I have been to total of two Sixers games since the current arena opened. I find the ticket prices for the decent seats to be too expensive for their value and I really didn't enjoy watching the games in person from the upper level. Amenities aside, I liked the closeness of the Spectrum a lot more. I enjoy watching b-ball on TV and other than my monthly cable bill, which I am paying to the company that owns the team anyway, it's free. I have never been to a Flyers game as I am more of a casual hockey fan, but their prices are truly ridiculous. I live about 2 miles from the Hershey Bears (AHL) new arena and love going there to watch hockey. It is definitely a more exciting sport to watch live and is very affordable at the minor league level.
Although baseball is definitely my second favorite sport behind basketball, I go to several Phillies games a year. Even when the team sucks the stadium experience is enjoyable, especially for my kids, and it is more affordable for better seats. None of the indoor sports can match the ambiance and family friendliness of baseball.
Maybe I am a bad fan by some standards because I don't fork over obscene bucks to watch the team in person very much (admittedly having a new kid come along every four years or so since the arena opened has also affected my ability to get down to games), but I live and breathe Sixers basketball. I am just not as into actively subsidizing their huge salaries/owner profits in person. My kids are getting older so I will probably make a game or two this year, but mostly I'll be watching on TV like usual.
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FWIW, I don't think Eagles or Phillies games are much different. Every year, my dad and I go on ebay around August and get the 2 cheapest tickets we can to a game against a team like SD three years ago (I called the blocked kick return for a TD, true story) or Jacksonville two years ago (that game was brutal), or Detroit last year (one of the few good games they played, but those unis were atrocious). On all 3 occasions, we just walked right down into the lower level, 45 yard line, and there were plenty of unfilled seats everywhere. You just don't notice nearly as much in football because you rarely see the stands, and when you do, you get handpicked shots. And Phillies games, despite what the paid attendance says, always seem a quarter empty, even taking into account everybody out in CF. I got to one Sixers game last year, against the Celtics near the end of the season, and the prices of the seats are just ridiculous.
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I'm not talking about going on ebay or stubhub to buy tickets to flyers games. I'm talking about $100 being the face value of the tickets in the back row of the upper bowl. You can still get Phillies tickets for $10 (SRO).
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I'm not talking about prices, I was just pointing out that all sports are the same. Good teams and rivalries are going to draw more fans to the stadium, regardless of paid attendance, than a bad team or a team nobody cares about. And I don't think there's ever been a game in any sport it which every seat or close to it has been filled, even if the seats have been paid for.
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And I don't think there's ever been a game in any sport it which every seat or close to it has been filled, even if the seats have been paid for.
Wow, I wish i could bet you on things like this...and then point you to fenway park almost any night of the baseball season (not just yankee games)
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And I don't think there's ever been a game in any sport it which every seat or close to it has been filled, even if the seats have been paid for.
Wow, I wish i could bet you on things like this...and then point you to fenway park almost any night of the baseball season (not just yankee games)
Like I said, not paid attendance, actually going to games and sitting and watching. Not milling around "enjoying the experience". Not having the ticket and sitting home because something came up. And I bet if you looked at most sections of Fenway, there'd be empty seats to be seen.
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I know exactly what you meant...though your expanding on the issue makes it even slightly more ludicrous...so if a seats empty cause a guy got up to get a hot dog you will says it isn't filled?
As long as a person walks through the ticket booth, the seats occupied in my opinion, and trust me, the red sox have few, if any, empty seats to any home games.
Additionally, packer season ticket waiting list is into the thousands, season tickets are passed down in wills (and fought over in divorces and probate courts)...your blanket statement incorporating the history of all sports is just beyond the pale of hyperbolic statements.
Trust me, red sox have fans for every seat in attendance more often than 'never'...it's still a 'smallish' stadium with not enough seating even with the monster seats, but they got nowhere to go to expand the darn thing (except up) because of how cramped boston geography is and the location of fenway...and don't suggest doing to fenway wwhat the yankees are doing to yankee stadium, there'd be an unholy revolt in boston the likes of which you haven't seen since the boston party...
now THATS good hyperbole :)
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Just curious if anyone knows, is there anywhere to see paid attendance vs. people who walked through the gate? I think that would be an interesting stat to see.
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Just curious if anyone knows, is there anywhere to see paid attendance vs. people who walked through the gate? I think that would be an interesting stat to see.
Based no your argument you'd also need photographs of every seat and every moment on the off chance someone has to take a leak
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While that is the case, my interest in that stat has very little to do with the argument at hand. Just a curiosity because I think paid attendance numbers are a farce.
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While that is the case, my interest in that stat has very little to do with the argument at hand. Just a curiosity because I think paid attendance numbers are a farce.
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They are a farce, and I don't disagree, but your out of hand statement was that you don't think any stadium in any sport has EVER had every seat filled, even factoring in people needing to relieve themselves and eat, that's just a nonsensical statement...Did you see many empty seats in boston or la during the finals? (I'm asking, i didn't watch)...were those same seats empty the entire game?
And yes, there are actual attendance versus paid attendance numbers out there, if you are interested, you could look em up using google but i'm guessing based on history you won't
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While that is the case, my interest in that stat has very little to do with the argument at hand. Just a curiosity because I think paid attendance numbers are a farce.
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They are a farce, and I don't disagree, but your out of hand statement was that you don't think any stadium in any sport has EVER had every seat filled, even factoring in people needing to relieve themselves and eat, that's just a nonsensical statement...Did you see many empty seats in boston or la during the finals? (I'm asking, i didn't watch)...were those same seats empty the entire game?
And yes, there are actual attendance versus paid attendance numbers out there, if you are interested, you could look em up using google but i'm guessing based on history you won't
I didn't watch Boston-LA either. I figured whatever team Stern and/or the refs wanted to win would win.
And I have no clue what history you're talking about, but that's just a false statement in every sense. I'm sure it's out there, sometimes people have a link or knowledge on hand that would save me time. When I get home from work, I'll go look for it.
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The other big difference between hockey and b-ball is that basketball is a much friendlier TV sport, while I find hockey is a significantly better sport to watch live.
That's a really good point. Hockey is an odd sport in that it probably has the biggest between enjoyment on TV versus seeing it live. It also is FAR more enjoyable to watch playoff hockey versus the regular season.
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I remember when everyone said "HD will save hockey" - i've watched hockey games in HD - i'm still not that impressed :)
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I remember when everyone said "HD will save hockey" - i've watched hockey games in HD - i'm still not that impressed :)
Ah, remember the puck LED thing they tried on TV a few years ago so that everyone could follow the puck,or fuzzy red dot, around better on TV. There was a success story for you.
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The best part was the 'flames' on a slap shot.
Fox does some REALLY stupid stuff with sports, there 'screaming' baseball, the gopher cam (yes i watch nascar, crashes are fun)