OT: Joe V, I seez ya lurking!

[WayOutWest]

Why you no post?  :huh:  

[westkoast]

Why you no post?  :huh:

Cuz Karl Malone is in the finals in the wrong color jersey

[Joe Vancil]

Because I've not been watching basketball as closely the last few days.

I gave up on FanHome a couple of months back, although I still post there on occasion.  Then again, it's pretty juvenile stuff that I post there;  anyone here silly enough to think Kevin Garnett is a big wimp because he didn't punch Anthony Peeler?  Nope...I didn't think so.  We all realize Kevin Garnett has *PLENTY* of time to punch Anthony Peeler...next season, when a couple of games won't be costly.  (I would point out that that makes the folks here much more basketball-wise than a lot of sportswriters.)

Anyone here think Kobe Bryant is "knocking on Jordan's door?"  Nope...I didn't think so.  Even with his titles, which are superior to Jordan's titles at this point in his career, Bryant still has scoring championships, an Olympic ring, a rookie-of-the-year, an NCAA championship, and two NCAA player-of-the-years, plus getting in the top 10 of another NBA category that he's down to Jordan.  At best, he's walking up Jordan's sidewalk...not knocking on his door.  And of course, I'll point out that, since it's a team sport and team goals should be more important than individual goals, he's knocking on the wrong door.  <Insert joke about where Bill Russell wears his 11th ring here.>  Point out that Kobe needs the next 19 titles consecutively in order to achieve Russell's title winning percentage for his career.  Point out that Jordan lost as many titles in his time in Washington as Russell did in his career.  Correct a few mistaken assumptions by kids who don't check their facts and don't think anyone else will, either...welcome to FanHome.

The Indy/Detroit series is interesting.  I'm pulling for Detroit, because I think Detroit can give LA a run for their money.  With Wallace, Okur, and Campbell, Detroit has a lot of big bodies to throw at Shaq - each that gives him a different look.  Plus, they can always throw Milicic out there as a chew-toy for the big dog.  And I'd like to see a Hamilton-Bryant match-up.

Is there any way of getting Gary Payton and Karl Malone rings without giving any more to Kobe Bryant, Shaquille O'Neal, or Phil Jackson?  As mouthy as Payton can be, he's nowhere near the ego of Bryant, O'Neal, or Jackson.  Maybe the Lakers will win the title, and Malone and Payton will go elsewhere, so I can start cheering for them actively again.

Am I the only person who thinks that Karl Malone may be the key element to the Lakers success?  Malone's passing is really helping the Lakers, and he seems to be the one to bring the level head to this crew.  And speaking of "level" and "head" in the same sentence, even I think he should be sitting for the shot to Darrick Martin.  I thought a flagrant-2 was an automatic one-game suspension.  When did the rules change?

Note to Phil Jackson:  bench Kareem Rush.  After having a break-out kind of game, you can count on him to tank very soon.  Trust me;  I watched him at Mizzou.  Don't know what it is about the guy, but he seems allergic to success.

McGrady doesn't want to play with Orlando?  What - when they were offering him all the money to get him to sign originally, didn't he realize he was going to a non-playoff team?  Oh...that's right...that was a 41-41 team that succeeded on hustle alone.  Bo Outlaw...Darrell Armstrong...come on - these guys were going to break down.  Let's replace them with Mr. Work Ethic from Denver Juwon Howard and I'm-much-younger-and-have-a-ring-and-a-defensive-reputation Tyronn Lue.  Am I the only one who saw through the Juwon Howard/work ethic smokescreen?  CONTRACT YEAR, people.  Does the name "Greg Ostertag" ring any bells?

And where were Armstrong and Outlaw this season.  Oh - they were busy playing for their teams in the post-season - New Orleans and Memphis.  I guess McGrady needs to learn that money can buy things, but it can't FIX things.

Some people are saying Orlando should trade the Number One pick.  ARE THEY CRAZY?  You need big bodies in Orlando.  Who are they going to get that's better than Okafor?  Oh...I forgot...since the Clippers have the #2 pick, you could probaby trade the pick for Brand.  Sterling could then grab the high school kid with the number 1 pick to replace Quentin Richardson, and Okafor with the number 2 pick to replace Brand.  They'd be cheaper, and when time comes for their option year, he can keep Okafor more cheaply because he signed him as the second pick rather than the first pick.  Anybody else think Sterling might think of this?  Plus, he could use the extra money to go after Kobe Bryant...**laughing**...does anyone else find that absolutely ridiculous?  Bryant - if he leaves the Lakers (which I still say he won't do) - is going to go to a CURRENT PLAYOFF TEAM.  By my estimation, that makes the Clippers 30th on the list of his possible destinations.

Joe's pick to watch in the draft: <spoken> Andre Uskevicius. </spoken>  No - that's just his last name.  Martynas Andriuskevicius - an 18-year-old Lithuanian center trained by Arvydas Sabonis.  Sabonis...Ilgauskus...if this guy pans out into either of these guys, with the lack of centers in the NBA these days, he'd be a steal.  Figure on Phoenix to give him a look at #7.  And I think it'd take a minor miracle for him to slip past Golden State at #11.  After all, you've got Charlotte (4), Atlanta (6), Phoenix (7), Toronto (, Philadelphia (9), and Golden State (11) that need centers.  Of course, you could always just go after Ostertag in free agency.

Speaking of Juwon Howard and contract years:  here's this year's name to watch:  Eric Dampier.  Giant underachiever who makes huge stride during the season only to have the year end with an injury just in time to opt out of his contract.  I want to write the disclaimer for his contract:  May not work as advertised.  Subject to breakdown.  Use only as necessary.  Results not typical.

Well there are my basketball thoughts - have at them.


                                               Joe
 

[Lurker]

Hey Joe...great to hear from you.

Quick replies:
If you visited more often you would know that I have clearly stated Malone is LA's MVP this year.

Okafor will help T-Mac open a line of back clinics with the grand openings scheduled for mid-April.

Kobe won't leave LA....PJ will.  Shaq won't get an extension until he figures out that he has to play more than 60-70% of the season....and then play at least 90% to his potential in those games.

Some players will always be rewarded for contract years....it's not their fault but the owners.  "Gee, this guy sucked for the past 4 years but this year he was great.  Let's give him 7 years at near max."

Fanhome has a few good posters but they are very clique-ish.  If you are not part of the "inner circle" then they tend to berate you.  Either that or you have to argue about some of those great topics you mentioned.

Drop in more often......
 

[Guest_Randy]

Because I've not been watching basketball as closely the last few days.

I gave up on FanHome a couple of months back, although I still post there on occasion.  Then again, it's pretty juvenile stuff that I post there;  anyone here silly enough to think Kevin Garnett is a big wimp because he didn't punch Anthony Peeler?  Nope...I didn't think so.  We all realize Kevin Garnett has *PLENTY* of time to punch Anthony Peeler...next season, when a couple of games won't be costly.  (I would point out that that makes the folks here much more basketball-wise than a lot of sportswriters.)

Anyone here think Kobe Bryant is "knocking on Jordan's door?"  Nope...I didn't think so.  Even with his titles, which are superior to Jordan's titles at this point in his career, Bryant still has scoring championships, an Olympic ring, a rookie-of-the-year, an NCAA championship, and two NCAA player-of-the-years, plus getting in the top 10 of another NBA category that he's down to Jordan.  At best, he's walking up Jordan's sidewalk...not knocking on his door.  And of course, I'll point out that, since it's a team sport and team goals should be more important than individual goals, he's knocking on the wrong door.  <Insert joke about where Bill Russell wears his 11th ring here.>  Point out that Kobe needs the next 19 titles consecutively in order to achieve Russell's title winning percentage for his career.  Point out that Jordan lost as many titles in his time in Washington as Russell did in his career.  Correct a few mistaken assumptions by kids who don't check their facts and don't think anyone else will, either...welcome to FanHome.

The Indy/Detroit series is interesting.  I'm pulling for Detroit, because I think Detroit can give LA a run for their money.  With Wallace, Okur, and Campbell, Detroit has a lot of big bodies to throw at Shaq - each that gives him a different look.  Plus, they can always throw Milicic out there as a chew-toy for the big dog.  And I'd like to see a Hamilton-Bryant match-up.

Is there any way of getting Gary Payton and Karl Malone rings without giving any more to Kobe Bryant, Shaquille O'Neal, or Phil Jackson?  As mouthy as Payton can be, he's nowhere near the ego of Bryant, O'Neal, or Jackson.  Maybe the Lakers will win the title, and Malone and Payton will go elsewhere, so I can start cheering for them actively again.

Am I the only person who thinks that Karl Malone may be the key element to the Lakers success?  Malone's passing is really helping the Lakers, and he seems to be the one to bring the level head to this crew.  And speaking of "level" and "head" in the same sentence, even I think he should be sitting for the shot to Darrick Martin.  I thought a flagrant-2 was an automatic one-game suspension.  When did the rules change?

Note to Phil Jackson:  bench Kareem Rush.  After having a break-out kind of game, you can count on him to tank very soon.  Trust me;  I watched him at Mizzou.  Don't know what it is about the guy, but he seems allergic to success.

McGrady doesn't want to play with Orlando?  What - when they were offering him all the money to get him to sign originally, didn't he realize he was going to a non-playoff team?  Oh...that's right...that was a 41-41 team that succeeded on hustle alone.  Bo Outlaw...Darrell Armstrong...come on - these guys were going to break down.  Let's replace them with Mr. Work Ethic from Denver Juwon Howard and I'm-much-younger-and-have-a-ring-and-a-defensive-reputation Tyronn Lue.  Am I the only one who saw through the Juwon Howard/work ethic smokescreen?  CONTRACT YEAR, people.  Does the name "Greg Ostertag" ring any bells?

And where were Armstrong and Outlaw this season.  Oh - they were busy playing for their teams in the post-season - New Orleans and Memphis.  I guess McGrady needs to learn that money can buy things, but it can't FIX things.

Some people are saying Orlando should trade the Number One pick.  ARE THEY CRAZY?  You need big bodies in Orlando.  Who are they going to get that's better than Okafor?  Oh...I forgot...since the Clippers have the #2 pick, you could probaby trade the pick for Brand.  Sterling could then grab the high school kid with the number 1 pick to replace Quentin Richardson, and Okafor with the number 2 pick to replace Brand.  They'd be cheaper, and when time comes for their option year, he can keep Okafor more cheaply because he signed him as the second pick rather than the first pick.  Anybody else think Sterling might think of this?  Plus, he could use the extra money to go after Kobe Bryant...**laughing**...does anyone else find that absolutely ridiculous?  Bryant - if he leaves the Lakers (which I still say he won't do) - is going to go to a CURRENT PLAYOFF TEAM.  By my estimation, that makes the Clippers 30th on the list of his possible destinations.

Joe's pick to watch in the draft: <spoken> Andre Uskevicius. </spoken>  No - that's just his last name.  Martynas Andriuskevicius - an 18-year-old Lithuanian center trained by Arvydas Sabonis.  Sabonis...Ilgauskus...if this guy pans out into either of these guys, with the lack of centers in the NBA these days, he'd be a steal.  Figure on Phoenix to give him a look at #7.  And I think it'd take a minor miracle for him to slip past Golden State at #11.  After all, you've got Charlotte (4), Atlanta (6), Phoenix (7), Toronto (, Philadelphia (9), and Golden State (11) that need centers.  Of course, you could always just go after Ostertag in free agency.

Speaking of Juwon Howard and contract years:  here's this year's name to watch:  Eric Dampier.  Giant underachiever who makes huge stride during the season only to have the year end with an injury just in time to opt out of his contract.  I want to write the disclaimer for his contract:  May not work as advertised.  Subject to breakdown.  Use only as necessary.  Results not typical.

Well there are my basketball thoughts - have at them.


                                               Joe

Anyone here think Kobe Bryant is "knocking on Jordan's door?"

I HATE this comparison -- why?  Because Kobe is never going to be MJ -- there will NEVER be another MJ.  Kobe has some of the skills and capabilities of MJ but some of those qualities are missing.  We have a tendency to remember the best and forget the worse -- unless you are a Clippers fan and then you don't remember anything and we all remember the best of MJ -- however, IMO, it's people that compare the best of Kobe to the best of MJ that forget to do the opposite -- compare the worst of Kobe to the worst of MJ.  There are times that Kobe's best deserves comparison with MJ's best -- but Kobe's worst, IMO, is much worse that MJ's bad days.  Kobe makes too many bad decisions on the court and there are times that he forgets his teammates.  I think there were times that MJ strapped the team on his back but he never forgot his teammates.  MJ also came to realize that it was a TEAM sport -- Kobe is still figuring that out (of course, I don't think his father helps in this area).  As for scoring titles, PLEASE, Joe, don't make me sick.  ANYONE can win a scoring title -- AI has proven that year after year after year.  If you jack up enough shots, you too can have the highest scoring percentage in the league -- please don't encourage Kobe to seek this title -- it means VERY little, IMO.

The Indy/Detroit series is interesting.  I'm pulling for Detroit, because I think Detroit can give LA a run for their money.  With Wallace, Okur, and Campbell, Detroit has a lot of big bodies to throw at Shaq - each that gives him a different look.  Plus, they can always throw Milicic out there as a chew-toy for the big dog.  And I'd like to see a Hamilton-Bryant match-up.

Well, I think that Detroit will give a better match-up than Indy but for a totally different reason than you have stated, Joe.  Chauncey Billups!  The Lakers have problems with quick point guards and Billups fits that bill a lot more than Tinsley.  Plus Detroit has a more physical center quad -- but I think it's hilarious to hear how the EC has been such a "defensive" matchup -- that's a nice way of saying that these two teams can't find a way to score.  Detroit can better match the Lakers defense but they can't match their offense.  I too look foward to see Kobe vs. Rip.

Am I the only person who thinks that Karl Malone may be the key element to the Lakers success?

Actually, there are many on the board (Laker fans as well as non-Laker fans) who have said the same thing.  I actually made this comment before the season began because Malone brought something to the Lakers that nobody else on the team has -- a high level of competitiveness with a strong sense of team.  Kobe is competitive but lacks the sense of team -- Shaq understands, at least better than Kobe, teamwork but lacks any kind of competitive drive (he responds better to losing face than he does losing a game).  Malone's work ethic has helped Shaq and Karl has been the glue to help the Lakers win -- don't underestimate that it was Karl , as much as PJ and Tex, who brought the Lakers back from being down 0-2 to the Spurs.  With that said, I don't expect to see him back next year -- I imagine if he can win a title, he won't think it's worth another season in the mire of the Lakers.  BIG props for Malone's comments about giving up the title to help Kobe -- definately something that I wish both Kobe AND Shaq understood -- but they would have to stop thinking about themselves long enough to think about someone else to make a comment like that.  

Note to Phil Jackson:  bench Kareem Rush.  After having a break-out kind of game, you can count on him to tank very soon.  Trust me;  I watched him at Mizzou.  Don't know what it is about the guy, but he seems allergic to success.

I think you are wrong here, Joe.  I too watched Rush at Mizzou (my dad and brother are HUGE fans -- I, personally, don't watch much college ball except for the Tigers and a little March madness) but I DO think this kid can experience success in the NBA.  He is totally without fear and has really worked on his outside shot over the course of the year.  He STILL needs to work on his drive to the basket -- the kid has some moves in finishing at the rim but while he showed his outside shot in the playoffs, he didn't show his finishing abilities around the rim.

McGrady doesn't want to play with Orlando?

TMac is forgetting what got him to Orlando and what made him a star.  He is a gifted player but he needs to always make sure that his competitiveness is bigger than his ego -- and this year that wasn't the case.  TMac is a gifted player but the Magic have made some big mistakes (like getting rid of Armstrong and Outlaw and getting Hill and Howard).  Anyone who is a student of the NBA should know that Juwann Howard ISN'T going to make his team better -- he will have some decent stats at times all the while helping his team LOSE!

[westkoast]

Joe you sound a bit bitter lol

I agree with the Kobe assesment but I believe you went a little overboard.  Kobe is the next Kobe.  Not the next Michael.  You are asking him to produce things he obviously cannot produce....like an NCAA title.  I will say this.....Kobe at 25 is smarter basketball wise than Jordan was at 25.  Jordan had more raw talent.

I also dont believe ego has anything to do with winning a championship.  Every player has an ego.  Every single star has a huge ego.  So to say one set of people dont deserve another title because they have a big ego....well that means that alot of guys aside from Duncan and well, no one else who is a star doesnt deserve to ever win one.  Does Wallace not deserve to win one because his ego is HUGE?  Moreso than Kobe or Phil.

[Joe Vancil]

Kobe won't leave LA....PJ will. Shaq won't get an extension until he figures out that he has to play more than 60-70% of the season....and then play at least 90% to his potential in those games.

Phil Jackson is an intersting question.  I don't see him coaching this season, much less next season.  So do you give the job to Jim Cleamons?  He'd seem to be the logical choice.  But it's reasonably obvious that Jackson's troops are in the midst of revolt.  The triangle doesn't work worth a darn for Payton, Bryant doesn't like his role in it, and Malone is much more familiar with pick-and-roll, which fits Payton, and Bryant does like.  Is this the death-knell for the triangle offense league-wide?  Personally, I think it is.  Isolation with pick-and-roll offers more opportunities to be stars.

As for Shaq, he'll get his extension, but only when it comes time for it.  Why do it any earlier?  What's Shaq going to do - sign for less money somewhere else a few years down the road?  Threaten to sit out in games (as opposed to sitting out with injury)?  

Payton is the interesting story, at least to me.  It's obvious that he's not a fit for Phil Jackson's offense, and it's obvious that his defense is so grounded in trapping that he really doesn't do anything else all that well.  But if he leaves, where does he go?  The only place that really seems like a good fit for him right now would be Houston, and they don't run a trap.  Personally, I'd like to see Payton go to Cleveland...but they don't run a trap, either.  Ditto with the other place where I think Payton could have a major impact:  Golden State.

And talking about Payton reminded me that I have a suggestion for our U.S. Olympic team.  We need more big men, right?  I suggest they offer an invitation to Shawn Kemp.  After all - you know he won't pull out.

 

[Joe Vancil]

I agree with the Kobe assesment but I believe you went a little overboard. Kobe is the next Kobe. Not the next Michael. You are asking him to produce things he obviously cannot produce....like an NCAA title. I will say this.....Kobe at 25 is smarter basketball wise than Jordan was at 25. Jordan had more raw talent.

On the contrary - I'm not asking him to produce things that he cannot produce, but I am holding him responsible to the choices which he made - something that quite a few NBA players seem to be missing out on.  Kobe *CHOSE* to forgo college, and therefore *CHOSE* not to produce NCAA accomplishments.  As for Bryant being smarter basketball-wise?  No way.  Not even close.  And personally, I don't see any difference in the raw talent.

The reason I chose this as a topic is because it's one of the few FanHome threads I've been on lately.  Truth is that the only way Bryant is comparable to Jordan is that their fan appeal is the same.  Basketball purists could care less about the fact that Jordan is gone and (this time) not coming back.  Basketball purists didn't need Michael Jordan in 1994 or 1995...heck, in 1984 to 2004.  He is a player who came and went, did some spectacular things while he was here, and won games and championships.  Personally, I found his marketing appeal to be distasteful, in that it overshadowed his basketball skills.  And to me, Bryant is even worse.  His marketing appeal currently overshadows his basketball skills, and worse yet, when he broke into the league, his marketing appeal overshadowed his LACK of basketball skills.  And he's starting to get me to believe that ego is an inherited trait.

I also dont believe ego has anything to do with winning a championship. Every player has an ego. Every single star has a huge ego. So to say one set of people dont deserve another title because they have a big ego....well that means that alot of guys aside from Duncan and well, no one else who is a star doesnt deserve to ever win one. Does Wallace not deserve to win one because his ego is HUGE? Moreso than Kobe or Phil.

I don't think ego has anything to do with winning a championship, either....I think it's the opposite way around.  With winning a championship comes ego.  And I don't think that every single star has a huge ego.  Not just Duncan, either.  There's a difference in *PRIDE* and *EGO*.  I don't have a problem with stars having a sense of pride.  Pride can be applied to the team - pride can be applied to performance.  Ego can't be.  Ego seeks to build itself.

A good example is Garnett.  He has a sense of pride, but not one of ego.  Jason Kidd.  John Stockton.

Contrast that with a player who has struggled with ego:  Karl Malone.  Of the "ego" players, Malone seems to have the best grip on the idea that ego isn't always good.  Malone understood pride was important - and he has that, but he never could separate himself from the ego side while he was in Utah.  Not only did he want to win, but he wanted to "prove himself" to critics while winning.  And what happened?  It cost him.

And finally, you get to players who are nothing but ego:  Shaq, Kobe, Iverson.  Winning is not enough - you've got to look good, and you've got to get recognition while doing it.  These are guys who could never take a supporting role - even if it was to win a championship.

As for Wallace (I'm referring to Rasheed...I hope you were, too) - the guy has precious little of either pride or ego.  He's an angry man who isn't really sure why he's angry, but he knows there's a reason to be.  If he had pride, he'd be focusing on improving his game and making use of some of the natural talent he has.  If he had ego, he'd spend more time talking down those people who shadow his accomplishments.  Wallace is simply a WASTE.

 

[WayOutWest]

Joe V,

Good to see you posting on a REAL board!

You bring up many interesting points that I will be more than happy to shred to tiny pieces when I have some time later tonight.

Hope to see you around more often, hopefully you'll swing by later tonight to pick up your arse that I will be handing to you.  

[Joe Vancil]

WayOut,

     Well, possibly I'll swing back by tonight, but no promises.  You see, I've got big events to prepare for - namely:

Generation Hexxed is getting married!

     The planning has been in the works for a little over a month.  Skander proposed to his girlfriend of 3 years on their anniversary (April 22).  The wedding is coming up this month (June 19), so lots of stuff going on.  We've got the rehearsal and dinner tomorrow, and Shannyn's bridal shower is Friday (and apparently, they're wanting all the guys to come instead of just the girls), and Skander is going out-of-town this weekend with me and a couple of other friends (we're heading in to St. Louis) in celebration of my birthday (yesterday).  Plus, there's NBA playoffs (can't forget the important stuff).

     Skander would probably love to hear from those of you who played in the fantasy league;  his e-mail address is skandery@yahoo.com if anyone wants to drop him a line.

                                                  Joe
 

[WayOutWest]

Because I've not been watching basketball as closely the last few days.

I gave up on FanHome a couple of months back, although I still post there on occasion.  Then again, it's pretty juvenile stuff that I post there;  anyone here silly enough to think Kevin Garnett is a big wimp because he didn't punch Anthony Peeler?  Nope...I didn't think so.  We all realize Kevin Garnett has *PLENTY* of time to punch Anthony Peeler...next season, when a couple of games won't be costly.  (I would point out that that makes the folks here much more basketball-wise than a lot of sportswriters.)

I don't think KG is a wimp for not retaliating, pretty smart on his part delivering a Malone like blow to set Peeler off.  Some sports casters were saying Peeler was PO'd at KG for a shot he took and mistakenly though KG had delivered it.  He said after that shot he started taggin KG.

KG has dropped a notch in my eyes.  He's pulled some cheap shots of his own and has been acting up like a little punk.  KG's been playing more like JO than TD.

Anyone here think Kobe Bryant is "knocking on Jordan's door?"  Nope...I didn't think so.  Even with his titles, which are superior to Jordan's titles at this point in his career, Bryant still has scoring championships, an Olympic ring, a rookie-of-the-year, an NCAA championship, and two NCAA player-of-the-years, plus getting in the top 10 of another NBA category that he's down to Jordan.  At best, he's walking up Jordan's sidewalk...not knocking on his door.  And of course, I'll point out that, since it's a team sport and team goals should be more important than individual goals, he's knocking on the wrong door.  <Insert joke about where Bill Russell wears his 11th ring here.>  Point out that Kobe needs the next 19 titles consecutively in order to achieve Russell's title winning percentage for his career.  Point out that Jordan lost as many titles in his time in Washington as Russell did in his career.  Correct a few mistaken assumptions by kids who don't check their facts and don't think anyone else will, either...welcome to FanHome.

I think Kobe is superior to MJ at the same age, not the same years in the NBA, except for defense and shooting percentage.  Much of what contributed to MJ's popularity was his highlights at the rim.  Kobe doesn't attack the rim like MJ and therefore doesn't have the high FG%.  

You can't compare college stats or acomplishments since Kobe opted not to goto college.  I think it's rather hypocritical to knock kids for skipping college and going strait to the NBA.  I NEVER EVER hear about the baseball farm system being an issue with high schoolers.  Plus MJ was just along for the ride on the NCAA title.  Worthy and Perkins were the cornerstones, MJ just hit an open jumper.  It was after the departure of Worthy that MJ made his mark as a tarheel.

Not sure where you're going with the Russel comparisons with Kobe since even the great MJ couldn't carry Bill's jock.  Kobe is a more refined offensive player than MJ but not the defensive stopper, I doubt he ever will be BUT Kobe does have a shot a passig MJ in regards to rings.  

The Indy/Detroit series is interesting.  I'm pulling for Detroit, because I think Detroit can give LA a run for their money.  With Wallace, Okur, and Campbell, Detroit has a lot of big bodies to throw at Shaq - each that gives him a different look.  Plus, they can always throw Milicic out there as a chew-toy for the big dog.  And I'd like to see a Hamilton-Bryant match-up.

At first I thought the Pacers would be a better matchup because of JO and Artest but after watching Malone just handle his buisness no the two best PF's in the game today I figured JO would just be shut down and the series would be over in 6.  Detroit has shown to be a better match up because of Billips and Rip BUT they hae alot of problems scoring and I think the series will be over in 5.  If the Pistons fielded a roster of 8 centers, 2 forwards and 2 guards they still are not going to have success against Shaq.  Daddy is just going to send the Detroit kids to bed crying.

Is there any way of getting Gary Payton and Karl Malone rings without giving any more to Kobe Bryant, Shaquille O'Neal, or Phil Jackson?  As mouthy as Payton can be, he's nowhere near the ego of Bryant, O'Neal, or Jackson.  Maybe the Lakers will win the title, and Malone and Payton will go elsewhere, so I can start cheering for them actively again.

What?  Check your head because you just had a brain fart.  Kobe had and ego with the talent to back it up.  I don't like how Kobe has to turn everything into drama, especially from behind the arc, but no way Kobe has a bigger ego than Payton, T-Mac or AI.  All players who don't have the game to back up their mouths.

Am I the only person who thinks that Karl Malone may be the key element to the Lakers success?  Malone's passing is really helping the Lakers, and he seems to be the one to bring the level head to this crew.  And speaking of "level" and "head" in the same sentence, even I think he should be sitting for the shot to Darrick Martin.  I thought a flagrant-2 was an automatic one-game suspension.  When did the rules change?

Malone has been the glue that has kept the Lakers together in all the games he's played.  Kobe and Shaq polarize the Lakers, Karl is a great buffer/de-fuser of that situation and it's been the Lakers saving grace.  Anyone who thinks Malone is riding coat tails is an idiot.  That term is best reserved for Payton.  Fisher has been a better player in the playoffs at the PG.

Note to Phil Jackson:  bench Kareem Rush.  After having a break-out kind of game, you can count on him to tank very soon.  Trust me;  I watched him at Mizzou.  Don't know what it is about the guy, but he seems allergic to success.

I don't agree.  Rush has always been fearless and was terrific when Kobe was out durring the regular season.  He killed in the Rockets series and has killed the Wolves as well.

McGrady doesn't want to play with Orlando?  What - when they were offering him all the money to get him to sign originally, didn't he realize he was going to a non-playoff team?  Oh...that's right...that was a 41-41 team that succeeded on hustle alone.  Bo Outlaw...Darrell Armstrong...come on - these guys were going to break down.  Let's replace them with Mr. Work Ethic from Denver Juwon Howard and I'm-much-younger-and-have-a-ring-and-a-defensive-reputation Tyronn Lue.  Am I the only one who saw through the Juwon Howard/work ethic smokescreen?  CONTRACT YEAR, people.  Does the name "Greg Ostertag" ring any bells?

Jowan Howard is a role player and a very good one at that, I think people expect too much of him, I'd love to see him on the Lakers.  T-Mac has stated he would like to play for Indy or Detroit because they have trouble scoring but his preference would be Houston.  IMO his best bet at a title would be Detroit.

And where were Armstrong and Outlaw this season.  Oh - they were busy playing for their teams in the post-season - New Orleans and Memphis.  I guess McGrady needs to learn that money can buy things, but it can't FIX things.

T-Smack is just that, all mouth and no heart.

Some people are saying Orlando should trade the Number One pick.  ARE THEY CRAZY?  You need big bodies in Orlando.  Who are they going to get that's better than Okafor?  Oh...I forgot...since the Clippers have the #2 pick, you could probaby trade the pick for Brand.  Sterling could then grab the high school kid with the number 1 pick to replace Quentin Richardson, and Okafor with the number 2 pick to replace Brand.  They'd be cheaper, and when time comes for their option year, he can keep Okafor more cheaply because he signed him as the second pick rather than the first pick.  Anybody else think Sterling might think of this?  Plus, he could use the extra money to go after Kobe Bryant...**laughing**...does anyone else find that absolutely ridiculous?  Bryant - if he leaves the Lakers (which I still say he won't do) - is going to go to a CURRENT PLAYOFF TEAM.  By my estimation, that makes the Clippers 30th on the list of his possible destinations.

The only reason they would trade the #1 pick is to appease T-Mac.  That would be a mistake.  I think even Clipper fans would revolt at the thought of losing Brand.  I pray to the B-Ball gods that Kobe becomes a Clipper.  Kobe is not leaving LA if his wife has anything to say about it, and right now she's making all the rules.  I would wet my pants if Kobe became a Clipper but I fear there would be problems with Kobe, Magette and Q.

Joe's pick to watch in the draft: <spoken> Andre Uskevicius. </spoken>  No - that's just his last name.  Martynas Andriuskevicius - an 18-year-old Lithuanian center trained by Arvydas Sabonis.  Sabonis...Ilgauskus...if this guy pans out into either of these guys, with the lack of centers in the NBA these days, he'd be a steal.  Figure on Phoenix to give him a look at #7.  And I think it'd take a minor miracle for him to slip past Golden State at #11.  After all, you've got Charlotte (4), Atlanta (6), Phoenix (7), Toronto (, Philadelphia (9), and Golden State (11) that need centers.  Of course, you could always just go after Ostertag in free agency.

I haven't really been able to keep tabs on draft prospects lately, I know there are two promising PG in the draft and I only know that because that's what the Clippers need.

Speaking of Juwon Howard and contract years:  here's this year's name to watch:  Eric Dampier.  Giant underachiever who makes huge stride during the season only to have the year end with an injury just in time to opt out of his contract.  I want to write the disclaimer for his contract:  May not work as advertised.  Subject to breakdown.  Use only as necessary.  Results not typical.

I don't expect much from Dampier but I do expect someone to pay a huge price for his services.  He should go to the East were his half arse effort could land him in the all star game.

Well there are my basketball thoughts - have at them.


                                               Joe

Don't be such a stranger!

[westkoast]

Joe,

I believe Kobe is superior to 25-Jordan mentally for the simple fact of the offense they were playing under.  At 25 I believe Jordan was playing in Doug Collins system.  While Kobe is playing in the triangle offense.  Right now, Kobe is running the triangle as well as Jordan was in his prime.  I do not think that can be debated.  He initiates the offense, he reads and reacts like he is suppose to within the triangle, and he has also learned where to get his shots from.  He picked it up quite fast I might add.  Kobe had a bigger adjustment to that style of offense than Jordan did who was a seasoned vet at the time.  Thats just my opinion.

He has also been apart of 3 championship teams and going on his 4th if all goes well.

[Joe Vancil]

I think Kobe is superior to MJ at the same age, not the same years in the NBA, except for defense and shooting percentage. Much of what contributed to MJ's popularity was his highlights at the rim. Kobe doesn't attack the rim like MJ and therefore doesn't have the high FG%.

You can't compare college stats or acomplishments since Kobe opted not to goto college. I think it's rather hypocritical to knock kids for skipping college and going strait to the NBA. I NEVER EVER hear about the baseball farm system being an issue with high schoolers. Plus MJ was just along for the ride on the NCAA title. Worthy and Perkins were the cornerstones, MJ just hit an open jumper. It was after the departure of Worthy that MJ made his mark as a tarheel.

Baseball is an entirely different animal that basketball.  A better comparison is football.  Baseball has an entire minor league system, fully functional, with each team having minor league affiliates.  Major league teams essentially run those minor league affiliates, thus deciding the development process for the players they sign.

Football and basketball have a single development process:  sign the kid, and put him on the roster.  College acts as the only development these kids have.  So we pay to watch a player not play, while taking the roster spot of a person who presumably might play.  And this means that we now have NBA farm teams:  Chicago, the Clippers, etc. - teams that take other players, develop them, and then lose them to free agency when the player becomes passable.  It's bad for basketball all the way around.

And personally, I don't see why anyone can't hold Kobe Bryant accountable for his decision to skip college, and thereby short-cutting the possibility of adding additional accomplishments to his list.  Consider this:  had Bryant attended two years of college, and then come out early, it's extremely likely he'd have put up the same kind of numbers that he did in his third season.  Bryant was a bit player his first two years in the pros...despite that completely undeserved All-Star selection his second year.  Folks act as if Byrant had no choice - that he did what he had to do.  That's garbage.  He *CHOSE* to forgo college.  I, for one, say that he should be held accountable for not having the accomplishments from that.

Futhermore, you can't say any player who won a starting job at North Carolina was just "riding coattails."  No, Jordan wasn't "the man" for North Carolina.  Then again, Kobe wasn't "the man" in LA's previous titles.  If you want to discount Jordan's accomplishments at Carolina, or on the 1984 or 1992 Olympic teams, then you need to discount Kobe's accomplishments to this point as a Laker.

Detroit has shown to be a better match up because of Billips and Rip BUT they hae alot of problems scoring and I think the series will be over in 5. If the Pistons fielded a roster of 8 centers, 2 forwards and 2 guards they still are not going to have success against Shaq. Daddy is just going to send the Detroit kids to bed crying.

First of all, I don't deny that Billups and Hamilton will be huge for Detroit's chances.  However, it's going to be the Piston big folks that decide the series, because unless they slow down Shaq, the series is over.  What I like about Detroit's front line is that it gives them so many different ways to attack Shaq.  You've got the bruiser in Campbell, the outside-shooter in Okur, and the mobility/defense guy in Wallace.  If I were coaching Detroit, my strategy would be to make Shaq work as hard as he could, because it's not something you see teams try to do against him.  If Shaq has an exploitable weakness - other than free-throw shooting - then it's probably conditioning.  If Larry Brown can't find a weakness, then you're right - Shaq will send the Detroit kids to bed crying.

Secondly, I see the series going 4 or 6, but not 5.  I figure the first two games in LA are a lock for the Lakers.  If LA wins game 3 in Detroit, the series is over in 4.  If LA loses in Detroit in game 3, I can't see Detroit dropping both games 4 and 5.  The 2-3-2 format is awful.  It essentially means that a series will go 4 or 6 games.  And the idea of winning both 6 and 7 on the road consecutively?  I hate the format.  2-2-1-1-1 works for every other series - the Finals should be the same way.

What? Check your head because you just had a brain fart. Kobe had and ego with the talent to back it up. I don't like how Kobe has to turn everything into drama, especially from behind the arc, but no way Kobe has a bigger ego than Payton, T-Mac or AI. All players who don't have the game to back up their mouths.

Ego isn't about mouth, WayOut.  Ego is about how good you looking getting where you're going.  Payton proved he could sacrifice ego by signing on to play third or fourth fiddle on the Lakers.  He knew his numbers would go down, that he'd make less money, and that he'd hurt future earning potential as well.  Sure, Payton is mouthy on the court;  Reggie Miller is another good example.  Neither is currently as talented as Bryant - I don't think that's a question - but they talk a lot more than Bryant.  Yet Bryant, despite his talent, is the one with the ego.  It's about being in the spotlight with him.  The only reason Payton and Miller were ever in the spotlight is because they earned it - not because they "needed" it.

I don't agree. Rush has always been fearless and was terrific when Kobe was out durring the regular season. He killed in the Rockets series and has killed the Wolves as well.

The book on Rush has always been that he's streaky.  John Starks kind of streaky.  When you're 6-6, it's called fearless.  When you're 2-19, it's idiotic.  Rush can just as easily shoot you out of a game as he can shoot you into one.  Over the years, I've seen him do more of the former than the latter.  Derek Fisher or Rick Fox might not be able go 6-6, but they'll never go 2-19.  You can't say the same with Rush.

I'd love to see him on the Lakers.

I'd love to see Juwon Howard on the Lakers, too.  Willing to trade Payton and Malone for him?

I think even Clipper fans would revolt at the thought of losing Brand.

I'd think the Clipper fans would revolt at the thought of losing, but so far, they haven't.  Brand being there or not being there won't change that one iota.  The team is suffering from severe head-rot.  The team will never be a serious contender for anything other than the lottery as long as Sterling is the owner.  For the good of the sport, that guy has got to go.


                                                     Joe
 

[Joe Vancil]

I believe Kobe is superior to 25-Jordan mentally for the simple fact of the offense they were playing under. At 25 I believe Jordan was playing in Doug Collins system. While Kobe is playing in the triangle offense. Right now, Kobe is running the triangle as well as Jordan was in his prime. I do not think that can be debated. He initiates the offense, he reads and reacts like he is suppose to within the triangle, and he has also learned where to get his shots from. He picked it up quite fast I might add. Kobe had a bigger adjustment to that style of offense than Jordan did who was a seasoned vet at the time. Thats just my opinion.

I find this argument unconvincing, since, other than Gary Payton, no Laker has fought using the triangle offense more than Kobe Bryant.  Jackson has blasted Kobe for going outside the offense, Tex Winter has blasted Kobe for going outside the offense, and even Shaq has blasted Kobe for going outside the offense (although in O'Neal's case, I'm not sure that he knows what that means).  So I *DO* think which of the two was running the triangle better is up for debate;  I never remember Phil Jackson or Tex Winter blasting Jordan's running of the offense.  And I believe Bryant's learning of the offense was forced;  revolting against the supposed saviour of the franchise before giving him a chance would have been a hugely disastrous PR move by Kobe.  Besides, he probably expected to fill Jordan's role in the triangle, and ascend to what he saw as his "rightful place."  Bryant didn't argue about things until he saw that it was Shaq who'd get the spotlight in Phil's triangle.

He has also been apart of 3 championship teams and going on his 4th if all goes well.

I don't deny that Bryant has won more rings at the same age.  What I can't figure out is why Bryant isn't content with success year after year, and instead tries to revolt against the people who brought him this success.  Jordan had better sense.

 

[westkoast]

I believe Kobe is superior to 25-Jordan mentally for the simple fact of the offense they were playing under. At 25 I believe Jordan was playing in Doug Collins system. While Kobe is playing in the triangle offense. Right now, Kobe is running the triangle as well as Jordan was in his prime. I do not think that can be debated. He initiates the offense, he reads and reacts like he is suppose to within the triangle, and he has also learned where to get his shots from. He picked it up quite fast I might add. Kobe had a bigger adjustment to that style of offense than Jordan did who was a seasoned vet at the time. Thats just my opinion.

I find this argument unconvincing, since, other than Gary Payton, no Laker has fought using the triangle offense more than Kobe Bryant.  Jackson has blasted Kobe for going outside the offense, Tex Winter has blasted Kobe for going outside the offense, and even Shaq has blasted Kobe for going outside the offense (although in O'Neal's case, I'm not sure that he knows what that means).  So I *DO* think which of the two was running the triangle better is up for debate;  I never remember Phil Jackson or Tex Winter blasting Jordan's running of the offense.  And I believe Bryant's learning of the offense was forced;  revolting against the supposed saviour of the franchise before giving him a chance would have been a hugely disastrous PR move by Kobe.  Besides, he probably expected to fill Jordan's role in the triangle, and ascend to what he saw as his "rightful place."  Bryant didn't argue about things until he saw that it was Shaq who'd get the spotlight in Phil's triangle.

He has also been apart of 3 championship teams and going on his 4th if all goes well.

I don't deny that Bryant has won more rings at the same age.  What I can't figure out is why Bryant isn't content with success year after year, and instead tries to revolt against the people who brought him this success.  Jordan had better sense.

Ok Joe but whats the reason for him going out of the triangle?  For him to create and make plays for himself and others.  There are certain situations where you do need to get out of the triangle.  We've seen Jordan do it.  We've seen the Lakers do it to adjust to SA.  Obviously since you dont live in the area you dont get to catch as many Lakers games as myself or others....if you did you would see that he runs the triangle more times than he does going out of it.  Those blasts from Phil, Tex, and Shaq came after losses when the team couldn't do much and Kobe felt he needed to strap the team on his back.  Sometimes he makes the wrong decision in that situation but that has nothing to do with not knowing the triangle or being against it.  Like I said those first years he had to adjust from the HS/street ball mentallity of using your raw talent to go one on one to a more team game.  That is one of the biggest things a young player has to adjust to.   All players comming into the league learn that, especially ones straight out of high school.  In the playoffs Kobe is the court general.  He runs the offense.  He initiates the offense and he directs traffic.  If Kobe wasn't as good or better than Jordan running the triangle offense the Lakers would not have 3 titles going on 4.  So again I dont think that is debatable.  Ask Kareem Rush if Kobe reads the defense and reacts inside the triangle the way Phil and Tex would like him to.

You have to understand he doesn't want to leave.  He wants to win.  He is a competitor.  How would you feel if you showed up for work, pulled alot of weight, and had one of your co-workers every so often try to discredit what youve done?  Better yet I know youve worked with a guy who has a HUGE ego.  I think all of us have.  Imagine working with a guy like Shaq on top of what I mentioned above.  You are right his ego does have a little bit to do with it....but at the end of the year I believe he will choose to be a winner rather than a superstar on a team that is home every summer.