What do you guys make of the changes in Cleveland? Coach fired now GM resigns.

[WayOutWest]

Do these changes indicate anything in regards to LeBron? 

Is LeBron flexing his muscles or does this indicate he is moving on? 

Does it mean abolutely nothing?

My guess is what ever ziggy posts utilizing his uber-metrics.

[ziggy]

Being the pompous know-it-all that I am, I need to learn some humility.  I will step back this time and say that I agree with WOW on this one.  

[WayOutWest]

Being the pompous know-it-all that I am, I need to learn some humility.  I will step back this time and say that I agree with WOW on this one.  

  

I guess it's CASE CLOSED!

[rickortreat]

Allow me to step up to the plate with some speculation.

LeBron told the GM to fire Brown and to get a good coach. When the GM didn't find a decent coach quick enough, LeBron talked with the Owner and got the GM to resign. Now, this is the Owner AND LeBron's team, because both of them know the franchise isn't worth squat if LeBron leaves.  If all this is correct, then LeBron is staying in Cleveland, as both he and the owner are aligned to bringing multiple championships there.

[westkoast]

Allow me to step up to the plate with some speculation.

LeBron told the GM to fire Brown and to get a good coach. When the GM didn't find a decent coach quick enough, LeBron talked with the Owner and got the GM to resign. Now, this is the Owner AND LeBron's team, because both of them know the franchise isn't worth squat if LeBron leaves.  If all this is correct, then LeBron is staying in Cleveland, as both he and the owner are aligned to bringing multiple championships there.

Also another possibility.....

Knowing that both Brown and Ferry failed at bringing a title to the Cavs before Bron hit the free agent market they both were pushed out because he is gone.  Ferry, being that he has been around this franchise for almost 15 years, was able to 'resign'' instead of being fired. 

You know the argument that the team wasn't good enough is kind of bs.  I am sorry but a team that wins 60 games in the regular season is not 'poor' by any means.  Ferry put together a solid team but when it came down to playing their star fell flat in 3 games in an important series.

[Joe Vancil]

I'm with 'koast here.  There's nothing wrong with Cleveland.  It's a good team that didn't win it all.  It has the parts and pieces, but it needs time together.  The problem is that with Shaq and Ilgauskus aging, it's not going to get a lot of time.  But Williams/West/James/Jamison is a solid 4, and Varajeo/Parker/Gipson/Powe is a solid bench.  It's just that they now need a center and another big body or two, and those aren't easy to come by.

[Reality]

koast and Joe,
How about Gasol, Bynum and Odom for Shaq, Z and Ant Jamison?  Would that be fair?

Since LeBron fell flat 3Xs, right?

[westkoast]

koast and Joe,
How about Gasol, Bynum and Odom for Shaq, Z and Ant Jamison?  Would that be fair?

Since LeBron fell flat 3Xs, right?

Reality, a team that wins 60 games in BACK TO BACK seasons is not 'poor'  Just because they are not as talented as THE DEFENDING CHAMPS does not mean their team is poor.  A poor team hovers around .500 not one that has the best record in the league.

Sorry buddy, nothing you can say is going to change basketball fans minds here (or elsewhere) when it comes to game 2 4 and 5 with Lebron James against the Celtics.

[Reality]

That the Cavs won 60 games is a testament to how good Lebron is.

That you and Vancil try to diss a near triple double game he had is sorry.  All kinds of people are convinced LeBron is better, or at worst equal to Kobme.
No comment on Gasol Odom and Byns for Shaq Z and Jamison.
You can sure as shootin bet LeBrons team would be better (I say Championship hands down) and i doubt Kobes wins anywhere near 60 games with that crew.  See 2005 6 7.
All kinds of fans all over the place who know that.

[westkoast]

That the Cavs won 60 games is a testament to how good Lebron is.

That you and Vancil try to diss a near triple double game he had is sorry.  All kinds of people are convinced LeBron is better, or at worst equal to Kobme.
No comment on Gasol Odom and Byns for Shaq Z and Jamison.
You can sure as shootin bet LeBrons team would be better (I say Championship hands down) and i doubt Kobes wins anywhere near 60 games with that crew.  See 2005 6 7.
All kinds of fans all over the place who know that.

Sorry Reality, Lebron James is GREAT but you dont win 60 games back to back years like that in this league with a horrible squad.  If the team was poor they wouldn't have won 60 games in back to back years since this is a TEAM sport.  There really is no getting around that.   Mo Williams made the all-star team.  Antawn Jamison is a talented player and former all-star.   I have no clue why you are bringing up Shaq as if I wasn't the one who said it was a bad move and you were chanting for an end to the Lakers after the deal   

How can Lebron, at worst, be equal to Kobe?  He studies his moves in June from his home when Kobe is in the finals.  He also does not have 4 championships.    While I think they are pretty darn close in terms of raw basketball skill there is one key difference.  Kobe has killer instinct and he doesn't.  This fact was on full display in the Cavs/Celtics series and The Lakers/Suns in the final 2 games.   Also, I am very much aware there are people who like Lebron more than Kobe, how these random people are the deciding factor like I should just roll over and say 'You are right Reality because 'all kinds of people' think Lebron is better, certainly he has to be, you are such a RealGenius' is beyond me.  I bet you were pounding away at the keyboard one handed sippin spinach juice thinking to yourself 'Wet Toast is getting pwned with this point!'  No one really cares what your assumption of what Kobe would or wouldn't do with that squad.  We don't live in WHATIFWORLD where you are the god who dictates how events happen, so its a waste of time to even talk about it.  I hate having to type this out at least once a month.

Oh one more thing before I go....If he is the star player, the leader, and the reason they win games when they lose important playoff games he gets to shoulder that.  Just like when they win he gets to look like the super star.  As for 'dissing a near triple double' it's not so much dissing it as pointing out that it wasnt his numbers but rather his body language and the way he was acting.  I said that before in my original comment, I know you read it in the other thread, you did quote it.   I mean really, Kobe had 3 games against the Suns that were 'near triple doubles' but you still think he sucks so just stfu while you are ahead

[westkoast]

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/67031/20100605/wesley_claims_lebron_leaning_strongly_toward_bulls/

Meanwhile, it was reportedly made clear by James' inner circle that he wanted both Mike Brown and Danny Ferry to be removed from their positions with the Cavaliers.

"LeBron never had to come out and say that he wanted Brown and Ferry gone," said a team executive familiar with the dynamic in Cleveland's front office. "But the anti-Brown and anti-Ferry sentiment from LeBron's crowd was loud and clear to Dan Gilbert. He knew where LeBron stood."

Read more: http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/67031/20100605/wesley_claims_lebron_leaning_strongly_toward_bulls/#ixzz0q6SJsCZY

(It also mentions that a source has said he is leaning towards Chicago)

[Joe Vancil]

That the Cavs won 60 games is a testament to how good Lebron is.

No, on how good THE TEAM is.  Unlike some, LeBron actually USES the team.

That you and Vancil try to diss a near triple double game he had is sorry. 

Because there's more to a game than numbers.  It was a good game.  But some choices he made were exceptionally poor, and went against what the team was trying to do.  It was atypical of what James normally does, and it turned out to be a big loss.  The fact that you want to essentially give him a trophy for a game which the Cavs lost tells me that you're not paying attention to the results.

All kinds of people are convinced LeBron is better, or at worst equal to Kobme.

...including me.  Your point?  Do I not also call Bryant out when he does selfish stuff - regardless of the numbers he puts up?

No comment on Gasol Odom and Byns for Shaq Z and Jamison.

It didn't deserve a comment.  Come on, seriously, you want a comment on that?  Fine - here it is:  Why don't you shut up about things that no *GOOD* GM would ever consider?

Come on, Reality.  Skander and I were *BOTH* on here, calling the Gasol deal ridiculous.  Skander recently called it a deal that made him absolutely lose interest in the NBA.  The fact that you dwell on that deal is annoying.  It happened two years ago.  Drop it.  You over-use that sort of thing to the point that everyone glosses over just how big a deal it really was just on sheer exhaustion.

You can sure as shootin bet LeBrons team would be better (I say Championship hands down) and i doubt Kobes wins anywhere near 60 games with that crew.  See 2005 6 7.
All kinds of fans all over the place who know that.

Ditto if you gave them to Wade in Miami.  Or Carmelo Anthony in Denver.  Or Roy in Portland.  What's your point - that the Lakers have assembled a good core of bigs?  Do you think *ANYONE* doesn't agree with that?

[rickortreat]

There is a big difference between a team that wins 60 regular season games and a team that wins the Championship.  Both are good teams, but the one that wins the Championship beats all the other teams with good records.  There are a lot of teams that help to inflate your record because they don't win a lot.

All teams have weaknesses or flaws that can be exploited by others. That is to say, they don't do all the things necessary to win a basketball game consistently. Only more complete teams have the ability to exploit that weakness, and it's only be having a team take advantage of that weakness is to be able to realize the problem.

This is why you see teams like Boston and LA, perform so well in the playoffs. They are the most complete teams in the league and do a consistent job of doing what it takes to win. They expose the weaknesses of their opponents, like Boston showing that Cleveland's Centers can't do it any longer.

IMO, Cleveland did as well as they could trying to bring talent in, but it wasn't enough.  LeBron needs better, and he's in a position to demand it.

[Reality]

Well said rt, you could add the Phoenix Suns and their run of 60+ seasons and no titles.
Below are responses to Joe.  I'm not gonna use the quote/quote feature because unless one has HideyW.O.W. level computer expertice it louses things up.

Quote from: Reality on June 06, 2010, 01:32:01 PM
That the Cavs won 60 games is a testament to how good Lebron is.

JoeV:  No, on how good THE TEAM is.  Unlike some, LeBron actually USES the team.
Kobes Bryant in 2004-5 and 5-6 had what i would consider an equal cast to LeBrons current support, all things being equal (Mike Brown vs Phil J included).
LeBron?  60 wins and at least a push to the Championship.  Kobes?  No playoffs at all and 1st round and out, quitting in Game 7.

That you and Vancil try to diss a near triple double game he had is sorry.

JoeV:  Because there's more to a game than numbers.  It was a good game.  But some choices he made were exceptionally poor, and went against what the team was trying to do.  It was atypical of what James normally does, and it turned out to be a big loss.  The fact that you want to essentially give him a trophy for a game which the Cavs lost tells me that you're not paying attention to the results.
I watched the entire mid 3rd qtr to the end.  He made two selfish plays, the second being with the game over, the one where you pointed out he passes the ball to the other team.  You must mean his turnovers in the 1st 2 1/2 quarters because in no way shape or form did he have a Kome type final mid 3rd to end of 4th game.


Quote Reality
All kinds of people are convinced LeBron is better, or at worst equal to Kobme.

JoeV:  ...including me.  Your point?  Do I not also call Bryant out when he does selfish stuff - regardless of the numbers he puts up?
Alrighty then.

Quote Reality
No comment on Gasol Odom and Byns for Shaq Z and Jamison.

JoeV:  It didn't deserve a comment.  Come on, seriously, you want a comment on that?  Fine - here it is:  Why don't you shut up about things that no *GOOD* GM would ever consider?
See above and below.  Also this is your quote  "I'm with 'koast here.  There's nothing wrong with Cleveland.  It's a good team that didn't win it all.  It has the parts and pieces, but it needs time together." 


JoeV:  Come on, Reality.  Skander and I were *BOTH* on here, calling the Gasol deal ridiculous.  Skander recently called it a deal that made him absolutely lose interest in the NBA.  The fact that you dwell on that deal is annoying.  It happened two years ago.  Drop it.  You over-use that sort of thing to the point that everyone glosses over just how big a deal it really was just on sheer exhaustion.
Laker Fan keeps denying it as a reason Kome went from .500 to contender.  From a basketball perspective it is beyond over-used, glossed and exhausting.  From a business mans point of view they are a continuinal cash cow for me.


Quote Reality
You can sure as shootin bet LeBrons team would be better (I say Championship hands down) and i doubt Kobes wins anywhere near 60 games with that crew.  See 2005 6 7.
All kinds of fans all over the place who know that.

JoeV:  Ditto if you gave them to Wade in Miami. 
True, he already outdid Kome by titling with a much older and injured Shaq and co. in 2006.

JoeV:  Or Carmelo Anthony in Denver. 
That punk?  I don't think so.  Even with the strong cast Kome currently enjoys.

JV:  Or Roy in Portland. 
Maybe.

JV:  What's your point - that the Lakers have assembled a good core of bigs?  Do you think *ANYONE* doesn't agree with that?
Same as above.  As long as Laker Fan keeps parroting how the 2008 Championship *proves* that Kobme is better then Lebron.  Tell them to drop it.  Please.

[Joe Vancil]

Well said rt, you could add the Phoenix Suns and their run of 60+ seasons and no titles.
Below are responses to Joe.  I'm not gonna use the quote/quote feature because unless one has HideyW.O.W. level computer expertice it louses things up.

Quote from: Reality on June 06, 2010, 01:32:01 PM
That the Cavs won 60 games is a testament to how good Lebron is.

JoeV:  No, on how good THE TEAM is.  Unlike some, LeBron actually USES the team.
Kobes Bryant in 2004-5 and 5-6 had what i would consider an equal cast to LeBrons current support, all things being equal (Mike Brown vs Phil J included).
LeBron?  60 wins and at least a push to the Championship.  Kobes?  No playoffs at all and 1st round and out, quitting in Game 7.

Completely disagree.  A team of Kwame Brown, Rony Turiaf, Lamar Odom, Luke Walton, Vladimir Radmanovic, Maurice Evans, Jordan Farmar, Sasha Vujacic, and Smush Parker gets *DESTROYED* by O'Neal, Ilgauskus, Varajeo, Powe, Jamison, Anthony Parker, West, Gibson, and Williams.  In fact, I can't see how you can even make this kind of claim.  Don't just switch LeBron and Kobe - REMOVE THEM COMPLETELY.  Cleveland's supporting cast is MUCH stronger.  And the 2005 team didn't have some of these guys, but in addition had a brand new coach in Rudy T., who didn't even last throughout the year.