Terribly called game last night

[Laker Fan]

Both ends of the court but Denver got the lion's share of bogus calls in their favor, the 4th quarter was an absolute joke! Playoff basketball should not be called that way, it was a physical but not really a chippy game, Utah was getting mauled in the paint but any little touch foul on the end was getting called. Now I am NOT saying it was a conspiracy because quite frankly if I believed that a certain team was foreordained to win it all or even a given series by the powers that be, I would be an utter moron to follow the sport, I would be an even bigger moron to follow the sport and whine like a girl about that conspiracy on a sports forum.

This is not to say there haven't been questionable INDIVIDUAL efforts to influence a game, and that home teams don't get some good old homecookin', and superstars don't get superstar pampered treatment (thanks for NOTHING Jordan!). However, games like last night were nothing more than perfect a example of ridiculous over-zealousness with the whistle or just plain incompetence, not some "design" to get Denver past Utah, nothing more, nothing less. And guess what gang? The same thing applies to when the Lakers play! And Phil Jackson laments bad officiating like every other coach does! And Kobe gets the least favorable superstar treatment of them all! I, and every single other fan on this board or anywhere else would be IDIOTS to follow this game if we believed otherwise, we might as well follow pro wrestling where the outcome is predetermined, at least then we would have no illusions about the sport being a farce.

Sorry guys, I had to get that off my chest, my big, massive muscular chest.

[WayOutWest]

Both ends of the court but Denver got the lion's share of bogus calls in their favor, the 4th quarter was an absolute joke! Playoff basketball should not be called that way, it was a physical but not really a chippy game, Utah was getting mauled in the paint but any little touch foul on the end was getting called. Now I am NOT saying it was a conspiracy because quite frankly if I believed that a certain team was foreordained to win it all or even a given series by the powers that be, I would be an utter moron to follow the sport, I would be an even bigger moron to follow the sport and whine like a girl about that conspiracy on a sports forum.

This is not to say there haven't been questionable INDIVIDUAL efforts to influence a game, and that home teams don't get some good old homecookin', and superstars don't get superstar pampered treatment (thanks for NOTHING Jordan!). However, games like last night were nothing more than perfect a example of ridiculous over-zealousness with the whistle or just plain incompetence, not some "design" to get Denver past Utah, nothing more, nothing less. And guess what gang? The same thing applies to when the Lakers play! And Phil Jackson laments bad officiating like every other coach does! And Kobe gets the least favorable superstar treatment of them all! I, and every single other fan on this board or anywhere else would be IDIOTS to follow this game if we believed otherwise, we might as well follow pro wrestling where the outcome is predetermined, at least then we would have no illusions about the sport being a farce.

Sorry guys, I had to get that off my chest, my big, massive muscular chest.

I only caught the 4th quater but I totally agree.  Utah was on the verge of getting robbed but to their credit they pulled it out.  That charging call on Kover was unbelievable, he gets hacked across the arm and practically gets shoved in the back and then gets called for the offensive foul.  Major props to Kover for not crying and giving up on the play and was able to draw a legit charging call on Denver.  Big props to Utah.

[westkoast]

Both ends of the court but Denver got the lion's share of bogus calls in their favor, the 4th quarter was an absolute joke! Playoff basketball should not be called that way, it was a physical but not really a chippy game, Utah was getting mauled in the paint but any little touch foul on the end was getting called. Now I am NOT saying it was a conspiracy because quite frankly if I believed that a certain team was foreordained to win it all or even a given series by the powers that be, I would be an utter moron to follow the sport, I would be an even bigger moron to follow the sport and whine like a girl about that conspiracy on a sports forum.

This is not to say there haven't been questionable INDIVIDUAL efforts to influence a game, and that home teams don't get some good old homecookin', and superstars don't get superstar pampered treatment (thanks for NOTHING Jordan!). However, games like last night were nothing more than perfect a example of ridiculous over-zealousness with the whistle or just plain incompetence, not some "design" to get Denver past Utah, nothing more, nothing less. And guess what gang? The same thing applies to when the Lakers play! And Phil Jackson laments bad officiating like every other coach does! And Kobe gets the least favorable superstar treatment of them all! I, and every single other fan on this board or anywhere else would be IDIOTS to follow this game if we believed otherwise, we might as well follow pro wrestling where the outcome is predetermined, at least then we would have no illusions about the sport being a farce.

Sorry guys, I had to get that off my chest, my big, massive muscular chest.

I only caught the 4th quater but I totally agree.  Utah was on the verge of getting robbed but to their credit they pulled it out.  That charging call on Kover was unbelievable, he gets hacked across the arm and practically gets shoved in the back and then gets called for the offensive foul.  Major props to Kover for not crying and giving up on the play and was able to draw a legit charging call on Denver.  Big props to Utah.

Yeah man, my thoughts exactly on that Korver play.

What I don't get is why Kevin Durant gets the benefit of the doubt but a guy like Deron Williams doesn't.  How is it determined that players start to get super star calls?  When it comes down to pure basketball skills I don't think anyone could really say there is a huge gap between Deron and Durant.

[Laker Fan]

What I don't get is why Kevin Durant gets the benefit of the doubt but a guy like Deron Williams doesn't.  How is it determined that players start to get super star calls?  When it comes down to pure basketball skills I don't think anyone could really say there is a huge gap between Deron and Durant.

There isn't a huge gap, Durant is the only legit scorer on his team and so naturally he gets the bulk of his shots, thus inflating his importance and numbers, but Williams is a point guard which is indispensable in Sloan's system and without him, the Jazz would be in the same boat as OK would be without Durant, and Williams is a more versatile player. The kid gets no love from the refs but then there wasn't a lot of hype for him when he came into the league like there was with Durant and I think that makes somewhat of a difference. I did love the Jazz stealing game 2 though, in fact I would love for them to take out Denver, not just because of the nightmare match up problems they give the Lakers but because I really can't stand that smug little punk Marshmallow Anthony and would love to see Utah wipe that smirk off his face.

[rickortreat]

At least you didn't have to watch the torture that was the Miami-Boston game.  Miami had no answer for Big Baby Glen Davis, and they couldn't even make a basket, except for Flash.  Glen was a one-man wrecking ball last night, and the refs let him get away with everything.  I had to stop watching.

[westkoast]

At least you didn't have to watch the torture that was the Miami-Boston game.  Miami had no answer for Big Baby Glen Davis, and they couldn't even make a basket, except for Flash.  Glen was a one-man wrecking ball last night, and the refs let him get away with everything.  I had to stop watching.

I saw some of it last night but didn't watch long enough to realize that the calls were one sided like that.  I just assumed they were letting them play tough.

[rickortreat]

At least you didn't have to watch the torture that was the Miami-Boston game.  Miami had no answer for Big Baby Glen Davis, and they couldn't even make a basket, except for Flash.  Glen was a one-man wrecking ball last night, and the refs let him get away with everything.  I had to stop watching.

I saw some of it last night but didn't watch long enough to realize that the calls were one sided like that.  I just assumed they were letting them play tough.

I think some of it was tolerance for tough play, but that in itself favors Boston, which is a bigger more physical team.  I just got done watching the Charlotte- Orlando game and the Bobcats were trying to come back and make a game of it at the end.  Unfortunately for them, they got screwed by the refs on several plays in succession.  I saw Stephen Jackson get called for a reach-in foul after a Orlando player took the ball by hacking his arm. The next play he drives the lane for a score an Orland player hits him in the head pulling down his headband over his eyes, no foul called again, and Orlando got a break-away basket at the other end.

I don't know if this is incompetence or by design, but I saw it all the time during the season watching the Sixers. Whatever the reason, it is ruining the game for me.  They always seem to kick a team when it's down, thus preventing the game from becoming close or interesting. It is as though the people who are calling the game are soul-less assholes.  "Gee, sorry I didn't see that one, too bad it resulted in a 4-point swing against your team. Don't you dare complain, or I'll throw you out!"  With such provocation the players are showing a good deal of restraint in the face of some very bad calls.

[westkoast]

At least you didn't have to watch the torture that was the Miami-Boston game.  Miami had no answer for Big Baby Glen Davis, and they couldn't even make a basket, except for Flash.  Glen was a one-man wrecking ball last night, and the refs let him get away with everything.  I had to stop watching.

I saw some of it last night but didn't watch long enough to realize that the calls were one sided like that.  I just assumed they were letting them play tough.

I think some of it was tolerance for tough play, but that in itself favors Boston, which is a bigger more physical team.  I just got done watching the Charlotte- Orlando game and the Bobcats were trying to come back and make a game of it at the end.  Unfortunately for them, they got screwed by the refs on several plays in succession.  I saw Stephen Jackson get called for a reach-in foul after a Orlando player took the ball by hacking his arm. The next play he drives the lane for a score an Orland player hits him in the head pulling down his headband over his eyes, no foul called again, and Orlando got a break-away basket at the other end.

I don't know if this is incompetence or by design, but I saw it all the time during the season watching the Sixers. Whatever the reason, it is ruining the game for me.  They always seem to kick a team when it's down, thus preventing the game from becoming close or interesting. It is as though the people who are calling the game are soul-less assholes.  "Gee, sorry I didn't see that one, too bad it resulted in a 4-point swing against your team. Don't you dare complain, or I'll throw you out!"  With such provocation the players are showing a good deal of restraint in the face of some very bad calls.

We've had many discussions on here involving the refs, momentum, and the more aggressive team getting the calls.   At times it seems as if the team with more points is treated as the more aggressive team when that is not always true.  There are plenty of times when the team catching back up is much more aggressive.  How else would they be catching up? heh

[rickortreat]

At least you didn't have to watch the torture that was the Miami-Boston game.  Miami had no answer for Big Baby Glen Davis, and they couldn't even make a basket, except for Flash.  Glen was a one-man wrecking ball last night, and the refs let him get away with everything.  I had to stop watching.

I saw some of it last night but didn't watch long enough to realize that the calls were one sided like that.  I just assumed they were letting them play tough.

I think some of it was tolerance for tough play, but that in itself favors Boston, which is a bigger more physical team.  I just got done watching the Charlotte- Orlando game and the Bobcats were trying to come back and make a game of it at the end.  Unfortunately for them, they got screwed by the refs on several plays in succession.  I saw Stephen Jackson get called for a reach-in foul after a Orlando player took the ball by hacking his arm. The next play he drives the lane for a score an Orland player hits him in the head pulling down his headband over his eyes, no foul called again, and Orlando got a break-away basket at the other end.

I don't know if this is incompetence or by design, but I saw it all the time during the season watching the Sixers. Whatever the reason, it is ruining the game for me.  They always seem to kick a team when it's down, thus preventing the game from becoming close or interesting. It is as though the people who are calling the game are soul-less assholes.  "Gee, sorry I didn't see that one, too bad it resulted in a 4-point swing against your team. Don't you dare complain, or I'll throw you out!"  With such provocation the players are showing a good deal of restraint in the face of some very bad calls.

We've had many discussions on here involving the refs, momentum, and the more aggressive team getting the calls.   At times it seems as if the team with more points is treated as the more aggressive team when that is not always true.  There are plenty of times when the team catching back up is much more aggressive.  How else would they be catching up? heh

An excellent point!  I really don't believe there is a bias, but at times it certainly seems that way.  Whatever the reason, if can often make an interesting game into a bad one. A few possessions in succession make a huge difference in momentum. A pass goes out of bounds..they score, you get called for on offensive foul, they score, you miss a shot they come down make one and get the and one foul call.  That's a seven point swing, which in most games is significant. If your down when that happens now you're behind by more than 10. If you were up by less than 10, now the game is close to being tied and you have to call a time-out.  NON-calls are the worst. You drive the lane and get fouled the other team gets a fast-break opportunity and you can't see 'cause your headband is now covering your eyes.  That just seems to absurd be to allowed to happen. For it to happen and not be corrected seems very wrong.

[Reality]

And Kobe gets the least favorable superstar treatment of them all! I, and every single other fan on this board or anywhere else would be IDIOTS to follow this game if we believed otherwise, we might as well follow pro wrestling where the outcome is predetermined, at least then we would have no illusions about the sport being a farce.

Sorry guys, I had to get that off my chest, my big, massive muscular chest.

I'll get the exact gametime upon review, late 2nd or early-mid 3rd, but anyone catch (or make that did everyone catch) the play whereupon Kobes Bryant went up in the air, got caught neither shooting nor passing, Krystic got a finger on the ball (maybe), Kobes regained full possession of the ball (never lost it?) and yet comes down on the floor failing to pass or shoot.  Travel, ridiculously easy call, right?  And so the one ref made the call as such.   Hold on!  Kobes Bryant goes running over to the one ref and starts whining.  Conference.....and.....Laker ball!
Priceless. 

Most def ignighted the entire crowd and coach Brooks look of disgust I'm happy to say he channelled it right back to the players and the game.
Perhaps we can get a clip up.

[Joe Vancil]

And Kobe gets the least favorable superstar treatment of them all! I, and every single other fan on this board or anywhere else would be IDIOTS to follow this game if we believed otherwise, we might as well follow pro wrestling where the outcome is predetermined, at least then we would have no illusions about the sport being a farce.

Sorry guys, I had to get that off my chest, my big, massive muscular chest.

I'll get the exact gametime upon review, late 2nd or early-mid 3rd, but anyone catch (or make that did everyone catch) the play whereupon Kobes Bryant went up in the air, got caught neither shooting nor passing, Krystic got a finger on the ball (maybe), Kobes regained full possession of the ball (never lost it?) and yet comes down on the floor failing to pass or shoot.  Travel, ridiculously easy call, right?  And so the one ref made the call as such.   Hold on!  Kobes Bryant goes running over to the one ref and starts whining.  Conference.....and.....Laker ball!
Priceless. 

Most def ignighted the entire crowd and coach Brooks look of disgust I'm happy to say he channelled it right back to the players and the game.
Perhaps we can get a clip up.

The proper call, in the event Bryant never released the ball (it never left contact with his hand), but the ball was touched while in his hand by an opposing player is *NOT* a travel.  Lots of people think it is, but it's not.  It's a JUMP BALL.

If the ball is NOT touched by an opposing player, then obviously it's a travel.

If the ball was released and touched by another player, then it should be a no-call - even if Bryant caught it in the air and came back down with it.

[WayOutWest]

The proper call, in the event Bryant never released the ball (it never left contact with his hand), but the ball was touched while in his hand by an opposing player is *NOT* a travel.  Lots of people think it is, but it's not.  It's a JUMP BALL.

If the ball is NOT touched by an opposing player, then obviously it's a travel.

If the ball was released and touched by another player, then it should be a no-call - even if Bryant caught it in the air and came back down with it.

I was not sure how that should be called but CLEARLY is was NOT a travel.

Sometimes when I am posting up and I am just ONE step away from the spot I want to be I purposely hold the ball out and entice the defender to slap at it so I can pick it up and take one more dribble.  I get into arguments sometimes but if they slap the ball out of my hands then re-establish posession then I should be free to dribble again. 

The Kobe play was a little different, the slap by the Thunder guy was enough to jar it loose but not enough for Kobe to lose posession, Kobe sort of let it go.  Since that was CLEARLY the case then it should be treated the same as a blocked shot, as you stated, jump ball.

[Reality]

The proper call, in the event Bryant never released the ball (it never left contact with his hand), but the ball was touched while in his hand by an opposing player is *NOT* a travel.  Lots of people think it is, but it's not.  It's a JUMP BALL.

If the ball is NOT touched by an opposing player, then obviously it's a travel.

If the ball was released and touched by another player, then it should be a no-call - even if Bryant caught it in the air and came back down with it.

Here is the order it happened.
Galsol is screening Kobes man up top.  Gasol then screen rolls.  Kobes sees this and attempts to drive into the opening.
Kobes drives, picks up his very low dribble with both hands and attempts to bring up the ball from below position. 
Krystic sees his teamate screened off, guards Kobes and attempts to reach in on the ball with his left hand.  Krystic gets his left hand on the ball.  He pulls his left hand away from the ball and out as he sees Kobes is about to run into his own teamate, Gasol.
Kobes now runs completely into Gasol, they are "schmushed" together.  The basketball is between them like an egg being passed by two hugging penguins.  Or two West Hollywood errr nevermind I'll let W.O.W. handle that one.
Gasols body/arm causes interference with Kobes arms (and the ball too??) as Kobes is attempting to bring the ball up.  Krystics senses this after Kobes "frees" himself from Gasol, Krystic now sticks a right hand on the ball.  Kobes still has possession and continues upward.  Krystic attempts to dislodge the ball, but Kobes holds on with both hands.
Krytic does not dislodge the ball but does succeed in slowing up and screwing up Kobes attempt to get the ball above his head in shooting/passing position.
Krystic now pulls his r hand completely away from the ball. Kobes has about hit his arc, all the while so far Kobes has had both his hands on the ball.
Kobes decides not to shoot or pass as he is "stuck" in mid air, still has both hands on ball.  Krystic -repeat- has now completely withdrawn any contact with ball.
Kobes starts downward (again) continuing with possession of the ball, both hands on it.  This is clear as a bell on slo mo frame by frame replay.
Kobes now, voluntarily under his own will, lets go of the ball with both hands -completely-.
Ball bounces on floor, Kobes picks it up and throws it to Swisher.
Whistle.

So Joe, what is the correct call?

The final call made was neither travel nor jump ball but inadvertant whistle, Laker ball out of bounds..

[Joe Vancil]

Described as such, the officials blew the call.  From the sound of things, the proper call was a jump ball at the time Krstic slowed the ball with his right hand, with Kobe not able to get the ball above his head.  That *MIGHT* get let go - and that's not out-of-the-ordinary, and if it does get let go, that's one of those cases where the officials may end up having to make a late call (which is something I absolutely detest).  Since I haven't seen the play, I can't really say.

What I don't see here in your description is when Kobe actually left the floor.  If Krstic touched the ball after Kobe left the floor, then the proper call, as you described it, is live ball.  If the play was stopped by a whistle, inadvertent whistle would be correct.

Also, if Kobe travelled because of Krstic's hand on the ball, then it should be a jump ball, unless Krstic removed the hand prior to any sort of travel.

I really need to see this one, because on this one, timing is everything.  You've got potential calls for travelling before Kobe gets into the air, travelling after he lands, jump ball due to the impeding of action by Krstic's hand, jump ball due to the touch of the ball in Kobe's hand, discontinuance (double dribble), and no call/live ball.

WayOut referred to this one in his post - but the fact that Kobe let go of the ball is one of classic basketball tricks to use.  It's one of those tricks that players who know the rules use on players who DON'T know the rules.  But you have to be careful, because, as I said, on things like this, timing is everything.

[westkoast]

They made the wrong call.  They also missed the reaching in foul on Westbrook on the play coming around with his arm and hitting part of Kobe's forearm as he went past him.

I do enjoy the super fine focus on one play on a 20 point blow out.  I also enjoy that when these type of plays happen in other games they are not mentioned or even argued in great detail.  I mean this is not an out of the ordinary play for a player to do this.  I watched Wade do something similar today.  Now if only we had this much focus on a debate of a real series changing event like say, Robert Horry checking Steve Nash into the side lines, we could have a real awesome thread.