OT: CANNOT believe what happened in Massachusetts tonight.

[Ted]

Has anyone witnessed a political upset like this before? All of that political capital spent on health care reform seems to have evaporated into the mist.

[westkoast]

Has anyone witnessed a political upset like this before? All of that political capital spent on health care reform seems to have evaporated into the mist.

That political capital you are talking about doesn't apply in this race like it does in many other states., Why would a state that already has a universal health care type system in place get excited about the Dems push for universal health care?  It wouldn't help them.  It would help others in many other states that do not have it.  So I don't think it 'evaporated into the mist' as much as it wasn't as of an important issue to Mass as it would say Colorado, New Mexico, or California.

I don't see it as a upset.  Coakley ran a horrible campaign and made the assumption the seat was going to be handed to her.  People who have been following this for a minute knew that it was coming within the last month.  I am GLAD she lost for mailing in her effort.    Do you also get surprised when you watch a Raider game where they mail it in and then they lose as well? 

[Ted]

Dude! On December 19, Coakley was ahead 20 points in the polls. TWENTY POINTS!

Several news outlets have dozens of voter responses from Democrats and Independents who voted for Obama and for Brown. It was health care. For every single one of them.

As far as Coakley running a lame campaign, you're probably right. Although the spin and blame game is already in full force on the blogosphere. She had a few embarrassing gaffes here and there, but most pundits agree, the more twisted and warped and sold-out the health care bill became, the closer Brown got.

If you haven't seen this, you have to watch Jon Stewart's All-Time Classic Rant on this election. Seriously. It's some of his finest work.

http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/bighollywood/2010/01/19/video-jon-stewart-anguishes-over-coakley-brown-race/#more-296530

[westkoast]

Dude! On December 19, Coakley was ahead 20 points in the polls. TWENTY POINTS!

Several news outlets have dozens of voter responses from Democrats and Independents who voted for Obama and for Brown. It was health care. For every single one of them.

As far as Coakley running a lame campaign, you're probably right. Although the spin and blame game is already in full force on the blogosphere. She had a few embarrassing gaffes here and there, but most pundits agree, the more twisted and warped and sold-out the health care bill became, the closer Brown got.

If you haven't seen this, you have to watch Jon Stewart's All-Time Classic Rant on this election. Seriously. It's some of his finest work.

http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/bighollywood/2010/01/19/video-jon-stewart-anguishes-over-coakley-brown-race/#more-296530

I know how much she was up but I still don't feel like it was surprising.   She took the entire campaign off up until the last few weeks.  Even when it was clear she was on the way to getting smacked around her speeches at rallys were boring and there seemed to be no urgency to what she was saying to outlets.  They were playing clips of her last rally and it was really quite sad.  As for those gaffs, they are not really blown out of proportion IMO.  If you want to connect with people in Mass and especially in Boston you talk Sox.  That is a no brainer.  Anyone who has even sniffed that part of the country knows that.  You would expect a politician from the area who is trying to convey this idea shes one of the 'regular people' to be a little bit more into the flippin Boston Red Sox. COME ON!   I imagined  a candidate running for mayor of Los Angeles stumbling over a Lakers comment.  He would would be lit on fire and used like a battering ram to break into a liquor store to loot after a victory before the race was over!

The Democrates (or Progressives I should say), who are pushing back because they don't understand how national politics work, made a mistake.  I honestly didn't believe people thought Barack Obama and the Dems could fix the last decade decline in one year but I guess I was wrong.  They are sticking it to themselves by sending this message.  Now some of the other issues progressives hold dear, like ones related to global warming and cap and trade, are going to be a very tough fight now.  Not sure if some of them realized that by either not voting or casting a spiteful vote for Brown.

After thinking about it a bit more  it makes sense a lot of people in Mass would cite health care as a reason.  IF America gets a nationwide plan the system they enjoy now could cease to exist.  That is not to say it wouldn't be comparable.  Who knows?  What they do know is they like their system how it is.  I don't fault them for that.  They are voting for whats best for them.  I just would like to have that same setup they do in my state lol

I did see Mr. Stewart's rant.  Though I do believe he provides that level of quality commentary on politics on a consistent basis week in and week out.

[Ted]

Dude! On December 19, Coakley was ahead 20 points in the polls. TWENTY POINTS!

Several news outlets have dozens of voter responses from Democrats and Independents who voted for Obama and for Brown. It was health care. For every single one of them.

As far as Coakley running a lame campaign, you're probably right. Although the spin and blame game is already in full force on the blogosphere. She had a few embarrassing gaffes here and there, but most pundits agree, the more twisted and warped and sold-out the health care bill became, the closer Brown got.

If you haven't seen this, you have to watch Jon Stewart's All-Time Classic Rant on this election. Seriously. It's some of his finest work.

http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/bighollywood/2010/01/19/video-jon-stewart-anguishes-over-coakley-brown-race/#more-296530

I know how much she was up but I still don't feel like it was surprising.   She took the entire campaign off up until the last few weeks.  Even when it was clear she was on the way to getting smacked around her speeches at rallys were boring and there seemed to be no urgency to what she was saying to outlets.  They were playing clips of her last rally and it was really quite sad.  As for those gaffs, they are not really blown out of proportion IMO.  If you want to connect with people in Mass and especially in Boston you talk Sox.  That is a no brainer.  Anyone who has even sniffed that part of the country knows that.  You would expect a politician from the area who is trying to convey this idea shes one of the 'regular people' to be a little bit more into the flippin Boston Red Sox. COME ON!   I imagined  a candidate running for mayor of Los Angeles stumbling over a Lakers comment.  He would would be lit on fire and used like a battering ram to break into a liquor store to loot after a victory before the race was over!

The Democrates (or Progressives I should say), who are pushing back because they don't understand how national politics work, made a mistake.  I honestly didn't believe people thought Barack Obama and the Dems could fix the last decade decline in one year but I guess I was wrong.  They are sticking it to themselves by sending this message.  Now some of the other issues progressives hold dear, like ones related to global warming and cap and trade, are going to be a very tough fight now.  Not sure if some of them realized that by either not voting or casting a spiteful vote for Brown.

After thinking about it a bit more  it makes sense a lot of people in Mass would cite health care as a reason.  IF America gets a nationwide plan the system they enjoy now could cease to exist.  That is not to say it wouldn't be comparable.  Who knows?  What they do know is they like their system how it is.  I don't fault them for that.  They are voting for whats best for them.  I just would like to have that same setup they do in my state lol

I did see Mr. Stewart's rant.  Though I do believe he provides that level of quality commentary on politics on a consistent basis week in and week out.

Do you know where that glorious Massachusetts health care system came from?

[westkoast]

Dude! On December 19, Coakley was ahead 20 points in the polls. TWENTY POINTS!

Several news outlets have dozens of voter responses from Democrats and Independents who voted for Obama and for Brown. It was health care. For every single one of them.

As far as Coakley running a lame campaign, you're probably right. Although the spin and blame game is already in full force on the blogosphere. She had a few embarrassing gaffes here and there, but most pundits agree, the more twisted and warped and sold-out the health care bill became, the closer Brown got.

If you haven't seen this, you have to watch Jon Stewart's All-Time Classic Rant on this election. Seriously. It's some of his finest work.

http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/bighollywood/2010/01/19/video-jon-stewart-anguishes-over-coakley-brown-race/#more-296530

I know how much she was up but I still don't feel like it was surprising.   She took the entire campaign off up until the last few weeks.  Even when it was clear she was on the way to getting smacked around her speeches at rallys were boring and there seemed to be no urgency to what she was saying to outlets.  They were playing clips of her last rally and it was really quite sad.  As for those gaffs, they are not really blown out of proportion IMO.  If you want to connect with people in Mass and especially in Boston you talk Sox.  That is a no brainer.  Anyone who has even sniffed that part of the country knows that.  You would expect a politician from the area who is trying to convey this idea shes one of the 'regular people' to be a little bit more into the flippin Boston Red Sox. COME ON!   I imagined  a candidate running for mayor of Los Angeles stumbling over a Lakers comment.  He would would be lit on fire and used like a battering ram to break into a liquor store to loot after a victory before the race was over!

The Democrates (or Progressives I should say), who are pushing back because they don't understand how national politics work, made a mistake.  I honestly didn't believe people thought Barack Obama and the Dems could fix the last decade decline in one year but I guess I was wrong.  They are sticking it to themselves by sending this message.  Now some of the other issues progressives hold dear, like ones related to global warming and cap and trade, are going to be a very tough fight now.  Not sure if some of them realized that by either not voting or casting a spiteful vote for Brown.

After thinking about it a bit more  it makes sense a lot of people in Mass would cite health care as a reason.  IF America gets a nationwide plan the system they enjoy now could cease to exist.  That is not to say it wouldn't be comparable.  Who knows?  What they do know is they like their system how it is.  I don't fault them for that.  They are voting for whats best for them.  I just would like to have that same setup they do in my state lol

I did see Mr. Stewart's rant.  Though I do believe he provides that level of quality commentary on politics on a consistent basis week in and week out.

Do you know where that glorious Massachusetts health care system came from?

Yes I do know who (and what party) it came from.   I don't think that refutes my point.  That system was in place for years.  Are you trying to say they are giving out the reward now?

[Ted]

It wasn't meant as a flame or an attack. I just thought it was ironic that one of the best, most progressive health care systems in the country came from a conservative "gay-hatin" Mormon.

Whether or not Coakley was a bad candidate, the Democratic party in general is not helping itself here. They've got to be more savvy than this. The Senate Health Care bill is literally a mess. Even Keith Olbermann hates it. The Dems have gone and made the Republicans who were embellishing the facts early on and made them truth tellers. Then you have Senators like Nelson holding out for what amount to bribes before they'll vote for it. And even though it's probably true, Axelrod's "oh that's how it's done in DC" explanation is a ridiculous, silly, asinine, foolish thing to say to the media.

I'm really starting to wonder about the people Obama has around him. Axelrod, Biden, Emanuel, Dunn (gone) . . . not bright.

And just in case anyone is wondering . . . I voted for him.

[Lurker]

It wasn't meant as a flame or an attack. I just thought it was ironic that one of the best, most progressive health care systems in the country came from a conservative "gay-hatin" Mormon.

First off, define best.  Mass has the highest insurance premiums in the country.  They have more and more people being squeezed out of the "system" for lack of affordability.  They are facing a doctor shortage compared to other states.  If this is the "best" healthcare and what Obamacare is based on then NO THANK YOU!

And since when did a Republican governer in the bluest state become responsible for writing a law?  I thought that the law was written...and subsequently amended...by a heavily liberal Democratic legislature.

I also find it sickly amusing that the Democratic congressional leaders pushing this extremely liberal agenda are mostly from 3 states:  Calif, Mass and NY.  Three states that are in the worse possible fiscal shape and IMO proof that the extreme liberal position that the state can provide for all is a failing premise.

[westkoast]

It wasn't meant as a flame or an attack. I just thought it was ironic that one of the best, most progressive health care systems in the country came from a conservative "gay-hatin" Mormon.

Whether or not Coakley was a bad candidate, the Democratic party in general is not helping itself here. They've got to be more savvy than this. The Senate Health Care bill is literally a mess. Even Keith Olbermann hates it. The Dems have gone and made the Republicans who were embellishing the facts early on and made them truth tellers. Then you have Senators like Nelson holding out for what amount to bribes before they'll vote for it. And even though it's probably true, Axelrod's "oh that's how it's done in DC" explanation is a ridiculous, silly, asinine, foolish thing to say to the media.

I'm really starting to wonder about the people Obama has around him. Axelrod, Biden, Emanuel, Dunn (gone) . . . not bright.

And just in case anyone is wondering . . . I voted for him.

Oh I know it wasn't.  Sorry if you thought I took it that way.  I was only brief last night because I was up late. 

I don't think it's as ironic that a gay hatin Mormon push that through as much as I was surprised that Republican would. 

I agree with everything you are saying about the Dems except I don't think those around Obama are not bright.  I think they've shown in different capacities they are bright.  I think that the White House spent too much time pandering to the right to try to be 'bi-partisan' like Obama promised in his campaign.  When there were more filibusters in one year than all the previous years of this country you would think he would have given up on the bi-partisan idea MUCH MUCH sooner.   One thing I think they did a poor job on was spreading information.  As USUAL they spent more time saying 'Nah uh, they are liars!' instead of just hitting the people in droves with more, easy to digest, information on health care reform.  People want health care reform and a large number of people (over 50%) would like to see a public option to pull costs down.  The problem is they don't know how anything is going to be structured yet.  Seems like its always changing every week.  I spend a lot of time following the debate and the bills yet even I get overwhelmed trying to constantly stay focused on a moving target while still living my every day life.  I would say most people don't have 20-30 hours a week to here every change, debate made, or proposal that could be bouncing around Washington at any given time.  Let alone the bs side deals with politicians, health companies, and organizations.

[Reality]

I have the flu.

[Ted]

It wasn't meant as a flame or an attack. I just thought it was ironic that one of the best, most progressive health care systems in the country came from a conservative "gay-hatin" Mormon.

First off, define best.  Mass has the highest insurance premiums in the country.  They have more and more people being squeezed out of the "system" for lack of affordability.  They are facing a doctor shortage compared to other states.  If this is the "best" healthcare and what Obamacare is based on then NO THANK YOU!

And since when did a Republican governer in the bluest state become responsible for writing a law?  I thought that the law was written...and subsequently amended...by a heavily liberal Democratic legislature.

I also find it sickly amusing that the Democratic congressional leaders pushing this extremely liberal agenda are mostly from 3 states:  Calif, Mass and NY.  Three states that are in the worse possible fiscal shape and IMO proof that the extreme liberal position that the state can provide for all is a failing premise.

Okay, I've done a little more research, and you are right. The MA health care situation is not looking great. I stand corrected. I had heard from a left-leaning friend that Massachusetts' health care system was the envy of the country. Should have known better than to listen to a lib.

[westkoast]

It wasn't meant as a flame or an attack. I just thought it was ironic that one of the best, most progressive health care systems in the country came from a conservative "gay-hatin" Mormon.

First off, define best.  Mass has the highest insurance premiums in the country.  They have more and more people being squeezed out of the "system" for lack of affordability.  They are facing a doctor shortage compared to other states.  If this is the "best" healthcare and what Obamacare is based on then NO THANK YOU!

And since when did a Republican governer in the bluest state become responsible for writing a law?  I thought that the law was written...and subsequently amended...by a heavily liberal Democratic legislature.

I also find it sickly amusing that the Democratic congressional leaders pushing this extremely liberal agenda are mostly from 3 states:  Calif, Mass and NY.  Three states that are in the worse possible fiscal shape and IMO proof that the extreme liberal position that the state can provide for all is a failing premise.

Okay, I've done a little more research, and you are right. The MA health care situation is not looking great. I stand corrected. I had heard from a left-leaning friend that Massachusetts' health care system was the envy of the country. Should have known better than to listen to a lib.

For people who don't have health insurance or are being denied, it is a spot of envy lol

[Joe Vancil]

Has anyone witnessed a political upset like this before? All of that political capital spent on health care reform seems to have evaporated into the mist.

I don't understand what everyone is so confused about in terms of "spending political capital."  Like pretty much every other kind of spending of capital that our government does - we spend more than we have, and we don't get anything of value for what we spend.  Sounds like DC as usual.

[Lurker]

interesting article in the wall street journal...

Scott Brown: 'People Aren't Stupid'
'And leaders should figure out they're better informed now than ever.'

By JOHN FUND

Boston

When I arrived at his cramped state senate offices, Scott Brown had just opened one of the many packages he's received since his stunning U.S. Senate victory 11 days ago. A local artist has done up a version of the iconic red, white and blue collage from the 2008 presidential campaign that shows Barack Obama with the word "Hope." This one features a smiling Mr. Brown instead, but the word below is different. It reads "Change."

By filling the seat vacated by liberal lion Ted Kennedy in a state Mr. Obama carried by 26 points barely over a year ago, Mr. Brown has certainly changed the political landscape. We sit down the morning after President Obama's State of the Union message, an address in large part shaped by what's been called "the Scott Heard 'Round the World." Mr. Obama uncharacteristically recognized some unforced errors in pushing his liberal agenda, along with expressing some new flexibility on issues ranging from small business tax cuts to offshore oil drilling to nuclear power.

Settling into a pinkish-red upholstered chair that looks like what it is?a castoff from a state furniture inventory?Mr. Brown reflects on his new celebrity. "I have to rely on who I've been and still am. I'm still the guy who works out at the YMCA and hangs out at the coffee shop," he says. "The way to handle the attention is to fall back on normalcy."

But he knows things are no longer normal. A few hours after we talk he will appear on Jay Leno's TV show. His daughter Ayla?the one who performed on "American Idol"?has been offered a job by a major TV network. And the symbols that propelled his campaign forward are now a part of popular culture. On the day we meet, the Boston Globe has a lengthy article on the meaning of the brown leather "barn coat" he wore on the campaign trail. And then there is the pickup truck he drove around the state, which has become a symbol of his authenticity and "Everyman" origins as a kid who grew up on the wrong side of the tracks and was scared straight by a judge after he was caught shoplifting as a 12-year-old.

The key to Mr. Brown's victory was politically independent voters in the Bay State, who favored him by 3-1. So how should other candidates court the independent vote, which in most parts of the country is growing faster than that of either major party?

"People out there are disgusted," he says, shaking his head. "Especially with any one party dominating government and talking down to them. They want straight talk, no BS. A focus on jobs and what really creates them. They want problem solvers in office, and it helped me that I was able to show I could work with Democrats in the legislature."

That last point has not gotten the attention it deserves. For all of the excitement Mr. Brown generated among conservatives, his actual legislative record reveals a man who rejects ideological rigidity on most issues.

A businessman who attended a fund-raiser for Mr. Brown a few years ago tells me that he marveled at how the man was able to navigate the abortion issue to the grudging satisfaction of both camps. "He directed people to his Web site for specifics, but mostly he listened and made clear that he respected the heartfelt views of everyone on the issue," he says. "That won him a lot of points from a tough crowd." Not exactly straight talk, perhaps, but certainly smart politics. (Mr. Brown does not favor rolling back Roe v. Wade, but supports parental notification, banning late-term abortions, and conscience clauses for medical workers.)

I ask Mr. Brown at what point during the four hard months he spent campaigning he felt he was truly connecting with Massachusetts' voters. He instantly replies that it was the first TV ad he ran in late December, which began in black and white showing John F. Kennedy pushing for his 1962 across-the-board cut in tax rates. The screen then slowly morphed into an image of Mr. Brown as he calls for a new tax cut by finishing Kennedy's remarks: "Every dollar released from taxation that is spent or invested will help create a new job and a new salary."

Massachusetts' senator-elect says he had always admired JFK as a president who "wanted to help everybody," and when he and his staff pored over that president's speeches his defense of tax cuts leaped out. "That's what we need now. Across-the-board tax cuts," he says. "A payroll tax cut would have been better than any government stimulus."

Mr. Brown says he designed his campaign to revolve around four issues: taxes, excessive spending, terrorism and health care. But it's clear that voter angst over ObamaCare was the rocket fuel propelling him to victory. "People got where I was," he says. He was often asked to sign his autograph with the number "41" next to it, meaning he was running to be the key vote to block health-care legislation from final passage.

Nonetheless, Mr. Brown is clearly sensitive?and a tad defensive?about his state's own universal health-care system. It now covers about 95% of the population; but it has also led to the nation's highest insurance premiums. It is driving hospitals towards bankruptcy and making it more difficult for people to see a doctor. Mr. Brown voted for the system in 2006 when it was proposed by then-GOP Gov. Mitt Romney. "Of course, it can be made better," Mr. Brown says today. "But it was bipartisan and it fit our local needs. We were being eaten alive by health-care costs." Universal coverage hasn't changed that, however.

Asked about the Senate committees he'd like to be a member of, Mr. Brown mentions Armed Services and Homeland Security (he's a 30-year National Guard veteran) along with Appropriations. The last choice seems mildly surprising; Appropriations is the Senate's "favor factory"?it parcels out earmarks. "I've not been shy in the legislature about telling people no," he says. "I've told groups I don't think a grant is for them, and we've improved the transparency of earmarks here in the legislature. Let's bring the power of the Internet to Congress so people can debate and control earmarks."

Mr. Brown's election has touched off a debate among Democrats about the direction their party should take, as populists tangle with moderates over how or whether to play the class-warfare card. So why does he think Democratic attacks on him for opposing Mr. Obama's bank tax didn't seem to gain traction? "People are mad at banks and the TARP money. But the banks are paying off that money with interest," he says. 'They get that a bank tax will be transferred down to individuals through ATM fees and the amount of money they can lend to create jobs will also be reduced."

Mr. Brown says it frustrates him that too many politicians still believe that people will be fooled by what they're proposing. "People aren't stupid, and leaders should figure out they're better informed now than ever." Perhaps that explains how Scott Brown was able to pull off his improbable Cinderella story.

Back in September, picking up on the rising tide of public anger over health reform, excessive spending, and one-party arrogance, he fashioned a simple, compelling narrative to deal with it: no to a rushed, confusing health-care bill, yes to a freeze on federal spending and to introducing some sunlight into government. Mr. Brown repeated it over and over with the inner confidence that his message would eventually resonate. It did.

Mr. Fund is a columnist for WSJ.com.