Author Topic: Spurs fans where are you?  (Read 13805 times)

Offline Lurker

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Re: Spurs fans where are you?
« Reply #45 on: January 08, 2010, 05:48:14 PM »

Man can't a poster get some props for sparking up a discussion on defense and a small market team? Damn  :D  From game observations it seems like there rotations are not quite as crisp as they use to be.  Lurker sort of mentioned that it had to do with people not playing in the system long enough.  I can buy that if the defense continues to slowly improve.  We will see.  They run into a lot of offensive power house teams in the next month and a half.


Props for starting the Spurs thread...only a couple million more and you will have as many Spurs threads as reality does Laker ones.   ;)

The issue now is that you are changing your stance.  You claimed SA was not a top 10 defensive team any more.  And everyone but you still thinks they are in the top 10.  Slipped from prior years?  Yes, I agree.  Lower than top 10...NO!  And I have supplied evidence that supports my point of view.  Your claim of not top 10 cannot be supported except by your subjective views.

After the first 12-15 games the Spurs were 17th in defensive efficiency.  They are now in the top 10.  And most of the improvement has come from players becoming familiar with both the system and their teammates.

Bogans, Blair & Jefferson are 3 new starters.  McDyess is the next big man.  All new to the Spurs.  Hill and Mason are in their 2nd season with the Spurs.  Ginobili missed all of last year.  There are only 4 players of the 15 on the roster who have been with the Spurs for over 4 years...and 1 is injured (Finley).  So for continuity purposes (chemistry, on court communications, knowing the system) this team has basically been together since October.  Over the last ten games SA is #1 in off FG% and #5 in def FG%.
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Offline WayOutWest

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Re: Spurs fans where are you?
« Reply #46 on: January 08, 2010, 11:18:14 PM »
The issue now is that you are changing your stance.  You claimed SA was not a top 10 defensive team any more.  And everyone but you still thinks they are in the top 10.  Slipped from prior years?  Yes, I agree.  Lower than top 10...NO!

Changing your stance mid-debate, very Lurkeresque.   ;D  As I posted before, I agree with you on this one.  Spurs defense has slipped, A LOT IMO, but they are still top 5 IMO.  Just goes to show what great defensive teams the Spurs have had in the past.
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Offline Reality

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Re: Spurs fans where are you?
« Reply #48 on: January 09, 2010, 04:22:31 PM »
I agree the Spurs defense isn't as solid as it was...although they have steadily moved up the rankings as the season has gone on.  And are currently 7th in defensive efficiency.

As far as weak teams scoring 100 points who cares if the Spurs score 115?  But then the reality is that in the first 33 games opponents have scored over 100 only 8 times (using your nba stat site).  Meanwhile the Lakers have let opponents score over 100 15 times in 35 games. 

Just keep hoping that the Spurs are washed up koast.  But as I basically said to Reality...scoreboard baby!
Wow, watching a couple of *pros* go at it.  Looks like i've been *owned* again.
Lurker can you spend some time doing charts and stuff on the Spurs allowing 42 points in the 4th qtr to lose to the Mavs last night?
After the Spurs took a 10 point lead into the 4th qtr. :D :D
scoreboard baby!

Offline Reality

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Re: Spurs fans where are you?
« Reply #49 on: January 11, 2010, 12:09:00 AM »
RealSpurs with a glimmer of hope tonight. 6-6 with 9 boards in 21 minutes.  Save bandwidth Lurkerkoast, i'm not *saying* he will do this every night.
While Popovich and Lurker-Lakers power and small forwards of choice FinleyBonner continue to be out, Cementovich gave Ian Mahinmi his first meaningful minutes in two years.

A great read here, written by a RealSpur from another board.  His name, most fittingly "objective".
Warning: needlessly long screed ahead declaring the unleashing of Ian Mahinmi!

Time for a fresh re-examination of Ian Mahinmi, and the case I?m presenting that he has been misused and why he should be getting minutes in a rotation right now. Of course he won?t get minutes and will only be a missed opportunity and regarded as a bust, but I still feel like getting this off my chest.

The vast majority of this was written in the second week of November but never posted. And I post this now fully realizing that the Spurs were close to beating to of the top teams in the league the past couple of games and no doubt by the end of the season will be much sharper. And though Bonner, McDyess and whoever else didn't perform all that well these past two games, that wasn't the sole reason they lost. But still I say, "Free IAN!"

This is on my mind because of the Lakers-Suns game early this NBA season, where the Lakers brutalized the Suns without Pau Gasol and with Bynum being such a big factor. Now before you over-react and start exclaiming ?Ian isn?t lightyears close to Bynum! He?s also too small and frail! He gets injured putting on his sportcoat! LOL @ you!? . . . Let?s look at how things have developed.

Andrew Bynum did not step onto the court a finished product. He was raw skillwise, physically unready, and untrustworthy on the court. And add to that later offcourt behavior that would make some question his dedication to the game. Later he would have two severe injuries to prematurely end entire seasons. In all these he?s not that far removed from Ian.

So how did Bynum overcome all these obstacles to become the starting center on a title team with the occasional games of sheer domination? He has the game already to be an all-star and so much more with years to come, despite serious injury concerns that linger going forward. It wasn?t an overnight process.

Two big things that we?ve not really seen with the Spurs and Ian happened with Bynum: One, he was given playing time, REAL PLAYING TIME. Even when he was hurting the team and looking clueless, he was given the time he needed to find his way. Two, the hands-on attention of a personal coach just for him to develop his skills.

After his rookie year where he saw sporadic minutes, Bynum heading into his second year was given the proper diet, the nutrition of playing in games. Make excuses if you want, like maybe Mihm and Kwame were hurt or the Lakers weren?t true contenders and had the luxury of playing him, but the fact is that Phil Jackson put him into the fire. And he wasn?t all that great. He made mistakes. Sometimes lots of them.

Bynum started 51 games his sophomore year. And he had plenty of bad games. He had 14 of those starts, nearly 25% of the total, where he had 6 & 6 or much less, often with a lot of fouls. Under 6 points and 6 boards for a guy so big? Dumb fouls? What madness had struck Phil Jackson? Didn?t he have some older bench scrub he could start over him? Obviously the kid wasn?t ready.

Just look at some of the starts with games like this in the 06-07 season:

11-08 : 2 & 5, 6 fouls
11-24 : 4 & 2
11-29 : 3 & 5
02-09 : 2 & 4
02-26 : 2 & 3 in 32.5 minutes!
03-09 : 2 & 5 and 5 fouls in 33 minutes.
04-06 : 0 & 2 and 4 fouls

And that?s just some of them. He had his ups, and he had his downs. Real bad downs. People wondered if he?d ever get it. And he was such a foul machine. But he developed because he was given the opportunity to develop.

And re: the coaching. For one season in Austin Ian Mahinmi was given as close to the Bynum treatment as possible, working with Toros AC Roy Rogers on his game. And improvement happened. He wasn?t some Stromile who never got better, his game progressed! If you watched the archive games from early in the season compared with late in the season, what a difference! Even just checking the boxscores will show what playing time + hands-on attention can do great things.

But Roy Rogers was gone after that year, and Ian was mostly too hurt to play anyway the next season. And he was hurt in an offseason Grgurich camp trying to improve, he wasn?t snowboarding or something stupid, he was hurt trying to get better as a player but Spurs fans seem to hold that against him. But in all my scouring of news items, I?ve never come across any other coach who was there just for Ian, or even to concentrate with him. After Roy Rogers, that was it. He didn't have 4 years of hands on training with an all time great like Bynum with Kareem.

Who is there for Ian to work with now, or last year? Well of course now they?ve written him off and won?t give him a shot anyway. Even with Duncan was inactive earlier in the year, Ian Mahinmi couldn'?t get activated over Haislip or Ratliff even though Ian has spent two years in the system. It?s a damn shame. I understand why they did that, I?d probably do it too. If he gets playing time and performs even marginally satisfactory he?s priced himself out of their range because even just promising young bigs get nice deals (like Amir Johnson, hell like Jackie Butler!). I wouldn?t give him the chance to make me look dumb after not picking up his option either.

Hell, look at Jermaine O?Neal?s career. Sure he?s washed up now and riddled with injuries, but go back to the young Jermaine. Who never really got his shot in Portland. Who was so raw and underdeveloped. That guy was in Portland for FOUR years and totaled 18 starts and averaged about 12 minutes a game in four seasons. In his fourth year, when you?d think he should have had it all down, he started an 8 game stretch in March and April of 2000 where he had monster statlines such as 2 & 0, 2 & 2, 4 & 3, 0 & 3, and 2 & 0 (against the Spurs).

Four years into the league, he gets some late season burn and he still is so raw that it doesn?t just happen all at once. Four years of practicing the not-so-common nba practice against Rasheed, Sabonis, and Brian Grant and he still wasn?t ready to deliver immediately.

THAT is now Ian Mahinmi.

This is my ?FREE MAHINMI? cry. So many Spurs fans want to lash out at him for being a bust. Well I say that if he?s a bust, he?s a bust because of the Spurs. If Andrew Bynum was given the Ian treatment the Lakers wouldn?t be the same team, maybe not even close. Nobody is an NBA-ready player until they?re made into an NBA ready player. And the Spurs aren?t making him, they?re burying him.

PLAY IAN NOW. Hell, START Ian NOW. Be forewarned. You play him now and he will have games with a lot of fouls. He will have games where you look at his statline and wonder what he was doing out there. There will be defensive foul-ups, bad shots, errant passes, costly turnovers, dumb fouls and assorted other problems. That is the learning curve, that is his burden. But if ANYTHING is to be gained from the investment in him, it has to be now.

Play him now. Even though the Spurs have wasted this valuable time early in the season when the schedule was so wide open with so many days off and practice time available. But now when he might still have some shred of conditioning left from camp. Play him now because he can?t go to the d-league. Now because if you play him and he is a total catastrophe after a respectable trial of 10-15 games you still have plenty of time to work in the Bonners and Ratliffs and whoever. Now because he?s not just a Stromile, he?s not just a Jackie Butler. He has talent. We?ve seen it. It?s there. Quit on him now and you?ll never get it, maybe no team in the future can get it out of him.

He can help this team. He can help in a big way if you play him enough and give him the opportunity, but it has to be a real opportunity. Because we all know a team with a healthy Duncan, Parker, Ginobili and can carry almost any big stiff to the playoffs. Even if Mahinmi is bad, it won?t hurt the Spurs to find out now.

He?s still barely 23 years old. He?s younger than George Hill. He?s younger than Hansborough. And still younger than Jason Thompson, Courtney Lee, Al Horford, Jeff Green, Rodney Stuckey, and Al Thornton (by 3 years!), just to name some but not all.

FREE IAN MAHINMI




Offline westkoast

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Re: Spurs fans where are you?
« Reply #50 on: January 12, 2010, 10:47:13 PM »
First of all Lurker, good win by your squad.  They were on fire tonight.

BUT!

Would you honestly say either team played good defense?  The Lakers shot a weak % but they were pretty much with out a normal Kobe for most of the game and it seemed like the entire 4th quater.

That Lakers defense you were talking about earlier.......well you saw it tonight and that is how its been since before Christmas, just saying.
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Offline Reality

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Re: Spurs fans where are you?
« Reply #51 on: January 12, 2010, 11:29:16 PM »
weaksause,
could you do one of your arrows pointing to the ref here?
Kobe Owns!!!


Offline westkoast

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Re: Spurs fans where are you?
« Reply #52 on: January 13, 2010, 12:04:02 AM »
weaksause,
could you do one of your arrows pointing to the ref here?
Kobe Owns!!!



You want me to post an arrow where he used his right arm to shove Kobe to the ground?  :D
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Offline Reality

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Re: Spurs fans where are you?
« Reply #53 on: January 13, 2010, 09:47:36 AM »
weaksause,
could you do one of your arrows pointing to the ref here?
Kobe Owns!!!



You want me to post an arrow where he used his right arm to shove Kobe to the ground?  :D

Leave Kobe alone!
Yes.  Only this time don't use some grainy photo with an angle that proves nothing.

Offline westkoast

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Re: Spurs fans where are you?
« Reply #54 on: January 13, 2010, 12:05:13 PM »
weaksause,
could you do one of your arrows pointing to the ref here?
Kobe Owns!!!



You want me to post an arrow where he used his right arm to shove Kobe to the ground?  :D

Leave Kobe alone!
Yes.  Only this time don't use some grainy photo with an angle that proves nothing.

I only used the video you provided moron.  What was there to prove when Coach Westphal himself said it was a good shot? LOL.  You didn't watch the game or else you would have seen exactly where he looked down.

Another dumb ass comment, another smack down.
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Offline SPURSX3

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Re: Spurs fans where are you?
« Reply #55 on: January 13, 2010, 03:24:51 PM »
Hey, sorry, been caught up with family and work, and actually i now facebook quite a bit.  Anywho, The Spurs win on LA was nice, despite lakers being injured and Kobe going down, it's nice to actually chalk up a win to a really good team.  Spurs have not lived up to what I thought they would this season, winnign big against ok teams, but failing against the elite.  It's almost that time of the year that things start to gel for us, so it will be interesting to see i they can make something happen...otherwise looks like first round and out again.
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Offline westkoast

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Re: Spurs fans where are you?
« Reply #56 on: January 14, 2010, 03:16:32 PM »
First of all Lurker, good win by your squad.  They were on fire tonight.

BUT!

Would you honestly say either team played good defense?  The Lakers shot a weak % but they were pretty much with out a normal Kobe for most of the game and it seemed like the entire 4th quater.

That Lakers defense you were talking about earlier.......well you saw it tonight and that is how its been since before Christmas, just saying.

Since Mr. Moron pushed this to where you might not have see Lurker....want to continue the discussion.....
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Offline Lurker

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Re: Spurs fans where are you?
« Reply #57 on: January 14, 2010, 04:59:42 PM »
First of all Lurker, good win by your squad.  They were on fire tonight.

BUT!

Would you honestly say either team played good defense?  The Lakers shot a weak % but they were pretty much with out a normal Kobe for most of the game and it seemed like the entire 4th quater.

That Lakers defense you were talking about earlier.......well you saw it tonight and that is how its been since before Christmas, just saying.

Since Mr. Moron pushed this to where you might not have see Lurker....want to continue the discussion.....

What's to discuss?

Both the Spurs and Lakers are top 10 defenses.  And that is based on just about any metric which measures defense that is available.  But that is relative to just this season.

Are they as tough as defenses 5-10 years ago?  Or even 2-3 years ago?  I would say no because the league has modified the rules and interpretation of rules towards increased offensive production.  Also the pace of the game has increased slightly league wide.

Thanks for the props.  Good win by your guys last night in Big D.
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Offline westkoast

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Re: Spurs fans where are you?
« Reply #58 on: January 14, 2010, 06:22:20 PM »
First of all Lurker, good win by your squad.  They were on fire tonight.

BUT!

Would you honestly say either team played good defense?  The Lakers shot a weak % but they were pretty much with out a normal Kobe for most of the game and it seemed like the entire 4th quater.

That Lakers defense you were talking about earlier.......well you saw it tonight and that is how its been since before Christmas, just saying.

Since Mr. Moron pushed this to where you might not have see Lurker....want to continue the discussion.....

What's to discuss?

Both the Spurs and Lakers are top 10 defenses.  And that is based on just about any metric which measures defense that is available.  But that is relative to just this season.

Are they as tough as defenses 5-10 years ago?  Or even 2-3 years ago?  I would say no because the league has modified the rules and interpretation of rules towards increased offensive production.  Also the pace of the game has increased slightly league wide.

Thanks for the props.  Good win by your guys last night in Big D.

There is something to discuss.  We were talking about the Spurs defense slipping and how it would look playing the slew of BETTER offensive teams coming up.

The Spurs let the Dallas Mavericks score a BOAT LOAD in the 4th against them.  In a game against the Lakers, with an 70% Kobe Bryant (and no Kobe in the entire 4th) and no Pau Gasol, they gave up 90 points.  Now Ill just make the assumption if Kobe and Gasol both played the entire game the Lakers would have went WELL over 100 points.  I wouldn't say that their defense has looked GOOD so far against better offensive teams.  Obviously we can't fully jump into this for another month but so far, it looks like my claim isn't far off base.

I did not watch the Spurs/Mavs game but in the Spurs/Lakers game they were letting a lot of scoring in the paint.  More so than you typically see.  I mean you don't see a Jordan Farmar-caliber player getting lay ups in the lane coast to coast multiple times in one game.  My observation is Duncan is not quite as fast as he use to be (for obvious reasons) so he's not quick to bail out perimeter break downs by rotation and blocking shots.    Do you think that is one of the problems?  Or am I off base because it was just really a one game type deal?

As for the Lakers defense we were discussing, I think its average.  I think the numbers are skewed.  To me I wouldn't say they play GOOD defense but if you look at just numbers, compared to a number of other teams, they are.  You saw that 'good defense' first hand the other night.  It was pretty sad.  The Spurs TORCHED their defense something serious.  Just absolutely destroyed it from every spot on the floor.

Thanks for the props but I didn't get to watch the game!!  Sadly I spent most of last night installing Microsoft Sharepoint server.  Talk about fun, oh man! lol
« Last Edit: January 14, 2010, 06:26:59 PM by westkoast »
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