Author Topic: Eddie Jordan Stinks.  (Read 57407 times)

Offline DuckyNinja

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Re: Eddie Jordan Stinks.
« Reply #120 on: January 12, 2010, 06:20:02 PM »
Please spare me the namecalling, I get enough of that at PhilaPhans for daring to say that Andre Iguodala is worth his contract.

Speights has shot 47.4% since coming back from injury.  In the exact same time span, Elton Brand has shot 55.2%.  So yes, while Speights has the best % on the team over the course of the season, he's cooled off a whole lot since his hot start.  He also plays worse defense on PFs than Thad does, and he's often comically bad at defending the pick and roll, something that Thad is actually getting to be quite good at.  Speights gets more rebounds than Thad, but he also never plays with Dalembert, and as much as we all pile on Dalembert, he boards well.  He's getting 3.5 more boards per 40 this year than Speights so far.

Speaking of Thad and Brand, I'm gonna hafta disagree with you here Ricky.  Brand is undeniably better than Thad.  However, if we started Dalembert and Brand, there'd inevitably be stretches of time where our frontcourt is Speights and Thad, and I don't think any of us want to see that if we can avoid it.  It's more lacking faith in EJ to properly manage it than thinking it shouldn't happen.  We're really just lacking a 3rd big man (and no, Reggie Evans wasn't the answer either).  We all hope that Speights develops into that, but right now, he's just too soft, too inept defensively, and too much of a ballhog on offense.  I think twice last night he got the ball at the top of the floor and drove all the way to the basket, once getting stripped and once missing the shot.

As for the rest of your points:
-Speights may be the best post scorer, but it seems like I haven't seen him there in ages.  He's fallen in love too much with the mid-range jumper and the out of control drive to the basket.  Not sure the best post scorer isn't Thad though, at least when he's on.
-I would like to see them try to go big at the end of games with Jrue-Iggy-Thad-Brand-Sammy if they have a lead.  Just seems like it would be a good defensive lineup.
-Iggy is a 3 who can defend 2s.  Thad is a 4 who can't really defend anybody very well.  They really need to fix that somehow.

Offline rickortreat

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Re: Eddie Jordan Stinks.
« Reply #121 on: January 12, 2010, 07:01:46 PM »
First off the Sixers problems are all about offense. You aren't the only  one who disagrees with me on this, but I have great confidence in my analysis and I have the facts to back it up.

It's easy: A good offense means that you get up a decent shot most of the time, if you can run down the court and get an easy one, that's great, and you should push it after every shot, made or missed. But if that first shot isn't there, you start passing and work your offense. The most important part is what happens after your shot. Obviously you want 2nd and 3rd chances if you miss-yes, that IS a part of offense. But if the other team gets the ball, you want to be set up before they get down the court. The Sixers can play decent half court defense when they are set up. With a team like the Sixers. who have good speed, there should never be easy shots for the other team other than long misses that fall into their hands.

When the Sixers are falling behind, it is invariably because they stop scoring, and the misses fuel easy offense for the other team. Watch the games and see what happens. They stop working the ball, they force up outside shots, they force a shot on the break that turns into a miss and an easy outlet pass for the other team. All it is, is a lack of discipline, and understanding. I want this team playing SMART basketball.  Quick, informed decisions on which way to go with the ball, running the pick and roll the right way and making the pass when you're the one who's double-teamed.

Screw Eddie's offense. Run Andre around screens. Run Thad on the other side. Lou or Jrue or AI will find someone to pass to. Because if they're not open Brand and Sam will.

AS for Speights, never has a player been so disparaged or his play so distorted. He does rebound, he does block out. He blocks shots, he makes outlet passes off of defensive boards. He also reaches in, loses his man, or gets drawn out of position. But all of these things are correctable and I'm willing to live with a few mistakes since his scoring often makes up for it and his size helps on both ends. Seriously, Thad isn't ever going to have a chance of blocking out Perkins or Garnett, is he?  Speights can. He already has in fact. So after playing so well, how do you suddenly give up on him?You got all excited just because Brand is getting back to being his normal self?

The most important thing for Speights is playing time, When he makes mistakes then you can show him the tape and get him to understand what he should have done. In order to be conscious of what's going on, you have to understand how they want you to play and how to play specific opponents. Mistakes are expected with young players. That doesn't mean you bench them.

And. The more bigs you put on the floor the better chance you have of seeing Thad at the 3 and Andre at the 2, which I think are their natural positions. I would have been fine with Smith as well. You have to be patient with young big men, and encourage and support them. You're asking them to play against more experienced players and one little mistake and you bench them?

Dalembert and Brand are good players, but it's not good to play them too many minutes. Sam often gets into foul trouble, and Brand did last night as well. You don't put in Smith and Speghts only when you get into trouble. They deserve playing time in order to develop.

Sam didn't look like the monster he was in the first quarter, in the fourth. Maybe giving him a little more rest would help at the end. The more time you give Speights and Smith the more they will learn and the better they will be. You can only learn so much by watching, it takes experience too. He has played well in the past, but I think he's out of rhythm, and the team has forgotten how to use him. Lack of playing time is the cause, than anything else. He deserves 10-15 min. minimum no matter what he does.

Sorry about the language, I get a little excited at times  :-\

Speights is going where he's told to go. Sometimes he should be in the high post, and Brand in the low and vice-versa. I think this is more a lack of coaching than anything else. Some players get freezed out in this offense, because they're not playing smart ball. Specific plays should be called, like a post up for Speights in the low block. Then he knows to work for position and get ready for an entry pass. I'd love to see him and Iguodala or Williams in a 2-man game. The point is, take advantage of what he brings to the table in a half-court offense. When they're running, he fits right in anyway.

Speights percentage has gone down along with his playing time. You pull him quick after a missed shot or two and that WILL affect your stats, and not in a good way.

What is wrong with Speights and Dalembert? Nothing that I can see, but it's never on the floor. Could Smith and Brand work on the floor, or Smith and Dalembert? I'd like to see these things tried, but not by just throwing them out there.

I do like your finishing line-up.  Sam has done a good job lately, but it you know it would be better for Speights to be taking those shots at the end. 

Offline DuckyNinja

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Re: Eddie Jordan Stinks.
« Reply #122 on: January 12, 2010, 07:51:30 PM »
Well, we agree on a few points and we disagree on a few points.

I agree that the Sixers' problems are all about offense right now.  I highly disagree that Speights is the solution.  You say yourself that the Sixers start falling behind when they stop working the ball and force up outside shots.  Well, Mo Speights is a black hole and forces shots up from anywhere.  So by your very definition of what makes the offense stall, Speights should never see the court.  I'm not sure the solution is on this roster.  Brand is the only guy who gets aggressive on the offensive end.  AI definitely helps too, and I think is a big reason why the Sixers have at least somewhat righted the ship.  And I definitely didn't think he'd be helping when we signed him.  Iggy needs to slash more and stop settling for those 20 foot jumpers.  And there always needs to be more movement on the offensive end off the ball.

Speights does rebound and block out, he just doesn't do either particularly well for a C, and he gets outmuscled by a lot of PFs as well.  Speights needs to show more effort on defense and on the boards and stop trying to prove his worth by taking a shot every time the ball hits his hands.  I disagree that he needs playing time.  Practice only makes perfect if you're practicing right.  And he's definitely doing things wrong that are correctable outside of game situations.  I'm not advocating giving him no playing time, I just see no reason right now to give him more than the 5-10 minutes he's getting.

Thad is a rangy 4 on offense, Iggy is a 3.  We disagree with their natural positions.

Sam is getting too many minutes now, but it's more due to lack of other options than anything else.  He's doing well all things considered.  Ride him while he's hot, because we know the Sam we all love to hate will be back soon enough.

And here's the main point where we really agree: the coaching sucks.  It seems like they do the opposite of putting players in positions to succeed.  Lou and Mo were amazing on the pick and roll last year, what happened to that?  Thad's at his best iso'd on the low block.  Yet he'll sometimes only get one or two touches a game there.  Kapono's at his best running his man through screens, yet when he's in the game, nobody does anything to get him free.  It's a big problem with this team.

I also would like to see those lineup pairings.

jemagee

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Re: Eddie Jordan Stinks.
« Reply #123 on: January 12, 2010, 07:52:39 PM »
Quote
I agree that the Sixers' problems are all about offense right now.

The fact that they have one of the worst defensive paces in the league, bad defensive rebounding and bad 3 point defense are all things that will be fixed by offense?

Speights doesn't pass

Offline DuckyNinja

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Re: Eddie Jordan Stinks.
« Reply #124 on: January 12, 2010, 08:54:47 PM »
Quote
I agree that the Sixers' problems are all about offense right now.

The fact that they have one of the worst defensive paces in the league, bad defensive rebounding and bad 3 point defense are all things that will be fixed by offense?

Speights doesn't pass

Those are all things that won't be fixed without a few trades and/or a new coach.

Offline RickyPryor

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Re: Eddie Jordan Stinks.
« Reply #125 on: January 12, 2010, 09:05:49 PM »
Quote
I agree that the Sixers' problems are all about offense right now.

The fact that they have one of the worst defensive paces in the league, bad defensive rebounding and bad 3 point defense are all things that will be fixed by offense?


Some people just don't like fundamentals.  I guess they aren't 'sexy'.

We score plenty.  In fact 98 PPG is a little more than what we scored last season, while winning 50% of our games.  Yet while last year we GAVE UP that same amount...this year we went on to give up 101.5!  101.5!!

So we score the same...give up FOUR MORE POINTS...and our problems are OFFENSE.  What the-?

(By the way...back in '01?  We gave up ELEVEN less points than we do now.  But SCREW THAT!!  Shoot, fellas.  Shoot!!)

jemagee

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Re: Eddie Jordan Stinks.
« Reply #126 on: January 12, 2010, 09:56:31 PM »
Quote
Those are all things that won't be fixed without a few trades and/or a new coach.

That's incorrect, the sixers were much better defensively last year, and contrary to popular (mainstream) opinon, andre miller sucks defensively

Offline DuckyNinja

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Re: Eddie Jordan Stinks.
« Reply #127 on: January 13, 2010, 12:10:23 AM »
Quote
Those are all things that won't be fixed without a few trades and/or a new coach.

That's incorrect, the sixers were much better defensively last year, and contrary to popular (mainstream) opinon, andre miller sucks defensively

Miller sucks defensively (you can't imagine how much shit I took from family and friends for having the gall to argue that Andre Miller wasn't the most important player on this team last year, and that he often wasn't helping very much because he was a sieve).  AI is most likely worse.  Lou is still running into screens like it's his job.  Losing Evans actually hurt (I can't believe I actually typed that).

I was about to make a point that our lack of ability to rebound on the defensive end is what makes our defensive stats look worse, that it's not the defense but the fact that we don't rebound.  However, I just looked up the stats, and we actually D-board very slightly better this year than we did last year.  Go figure.

So, I was wrong.  This defense is obviously capable of doing better than they are.  Both the defense and the offense are very streaky, but after being presented with the stats, and looking up a few others, it does seem clear that the defense needs to step it up.  Lesson learned.

Offline RickyPryor

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Re: Eddie Jordan Stinks.
« Reply #128 on: January 13, 2010, 07:27:05 AM »
Losing Evans actually hurt (I can't believe I actually typed that).


I know it's bad form to say 'told you so'...so I won't.

But last year I was - to a man - the only one who appreciated that guy.  But it wasn't so much his departure that killed me, it's the fact we DIDN'T REPLACE HIM.

I find myself looking at some of our line-ups (say, those with Thad as our 4...and our second tallest guy on the court)...and I project out towards a potential series with Orlando.  Or the Cavs. 

And I wince.

The disregard Ed and Eddie have for rebounding is astonishing.  Defense too.


And they wonder why we're among the absolute worst teams in the league. ???

Offline rickortreat

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Re: Eddie Jordan Stinks.
« Reply #129 on: January 14, 2010, 11:17:45 AM »
I thought that Evans was replaced by Brand.

I think last night's performance against the Knicks proves my point completely. It was our offense that failed, and Speights was the best player on the team.  In fact, he did everything well, except be a little late on some rotations, where Sam decided to switch.

A 4 is not a wide ranging player, by my definition. A 4 is a post-up scorer, and rebounder who stays within 15 feet of the basket. He has to be able to battle for position and want to get every rebound, particularly offensive ones. Thad is not that kind of a player, and Speights is. Thad isn't strong enough to box out big players, he allows the other team easy 2nd chance shots. That's a bad choice for the 4 spot.

Sam and Marreese actually compliment each other well. Sam is a better defender, and shot blocker, but Marreese is a natural scorer. As a tandem they present a big front which deters the other team driving the lane. Having players that clog the middle, slows the game down, and creates better opportunities for steals.

We keep complaining about the coach,  which suggests you don't like what he's doing, But what would you do differently? I know that I'd start Dalembert and Speights with Young, Iguodala and Williams. I'd rotate in Brand, Carney, Holiday and Iverson and try to work Smith into the rotation as well.  I think that gives us the most dynamic starting lineup and very good depth. I also think that if you keep Speights and Brand on the bench at the start of the game, your bench is stronger than your starting lineup.

Offline RickyPryor

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Re: Eddie Jordan Stinks.
« Reply #130 on: January 14, 2010, 11:24:52 AM »
A bad, bad, bad loss.  Not so much based on how it all played out, but more that we were looking for three in a row (woohoo!), against the KNICKS, at HOME.  c'mon...this is ridiculous.

And Eddie was back to his usual:

Thad must have naked pictures of Eddie Jordan.  Why so many minutes last night (and lately? He's sucked-it-up but good)?  Why no Brand in the 1st; are you kidding?  I get that he liked the Thad/Lee matchup...but how 'bout match-ups WE create?  Speights needed more minutes, too.  Why panic with Sammy's fouls and bring him back 2 minutes later than you should have in the 4th?  Upon first SNIFF of a zone, you go to Kapono!  I mean, why else do we even HAVE that stiff if not to discourage a zone??

But it wasn't all Eddie.

For my money, this particular game was lost at the foul line.  Meaning - we NEVER GOT THERE!  That shows me we didn't get the aggressiveness from AI, Iggy, Brand, Young, etc etc etc

And this team is in no position to play a crappo team like the Knicks SOFT.


Offline RickyPryor

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Re: Eddie Jordan Stinks.
« Reply #131 on: January 14, 2010, 11:27:54 AM »
I thought that Evans was replaced by Brand.

Apparently, both you and Stefanski thought the same thing.  And, unfortunately, you've both been proven wrong.



But what would you do differently?

I file reports here after almost every game.  You should check them out. ;)

Offline Derek Bodner

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Re: Eddie Jordan Stinks.
« Reply #132 on: January 14, 2010, 12:13:39 PM »
Can somebody tell me why, exactly, we're missing Evans ?

Since we've been "proven" wrong, I'd like to know exactly how.

jemagee

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Re: Eddie Jordan Stinks.
« Reply #133 on: January 14, 2010, 12:50:16 PM »
Oh come on, Reggie Evans is hustle and energy and effort - so he obviously is a positive contribution when he's on the court - he's a defensive GEM and really knows how to get at it...

or something like that right?

Offline RickyPryor

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Re: Eddie Jordan Stinks.
« Reply #134 on: January 14, 2010, 01:00:03 PM »
Because our remaining big men aren't physical enough.