Timmy Dunks to start at 240 pounds (-15)

[rickortreat]

Oh you mean the GMs that passes on Blair per their doctors advice that he was too damaged.   
Well it's a wait and see if his knees hold up so he can dominate Gasol and on into the playoffs.

He's looking like Chuck Barkley-Rodman on the rebounding front now.

Against a likely lottery team in Houston? Take a pill dude!  How much PT is he going to get behind Bonner, McDyess etc.?

Like the discussion about the Lakers. It is a gamble, but IMO the Lakers themselves thought they were a little soft. They got away with it against a finese team like Orlando, but they're still worried about Boston and the LeBrons.

Honestly, I think Artest will be fine, but the Lakers chances are more related to how Bynum develops this season. They have to match size and strength with their Eastern counterparts and be able to at least achieve a draw on the boards.  Fisher is still going to be their starting point, Really!?

[jemagee]

Like the discussion about the Lakers. It is a gamble, but IMO the Lakers themselves thought they were a little soft. They got away with it against a finese team like Orlando, but they're still worried about Boston and the LeBrons.

A second round pick with first round talent isn't as much of a gamble as a guy who once jumped into the stands to start a fight with a fan and has had other personality 'quirks' throughout his career.

Anyone catch the SI.com article about him - where he hired the turkish model for the photoshoot just because, or might end his career a year earlier cause he wants to fight heavyweight boxing?

Seriously, isn't there anyone in this guys life saying "Ron, you might want to talk to someone about this"

[westkoast]

Like the discussion about the Lakers. It is a gamble, but IMO the Lakers themselves thought they were a little soft. They got away with it against a finese team like Orlando, but they're still worried about Boston and the LeBrons.

A second round pick with first round talent isn't as much of a gamble as a guy who once jumped into the stands to start a fight with a fan and has had other personality 'quirks' throughout his career.

Anyone catch the SI.com article about him - where he hired the turkish model for the photoshoot just because, or might end his career a year earlier cause he wants to fight heavyweight boxing?

Seriously, isn't there anyone in this guys life saying "Ron, you might want to talk to someone about this"

You seriously think that second round pick would be able to fill Ariza's role right away?  I think not replacing that SF position with someone as good or better than Ariza defensively is a huge gamble in terms of defending the title.  A rookie would not be that player especially not in the playoffs.

If your whole purpose for an upcoming season is to defend your championship then adding a vet player who has proven himself on the court in terms of skill is less of a gamble than putting a rookie in a key position and expecting him to defend and hit open jumpers in the playoffs.

Also, you guys forgot to mention Carmelo Anthony as another reason the Lakers wanted to pick up a stronger defender.  Both Kobe and Ariza are not/were not  strong enough to handle him and he really beat the Lakers up in 3 games of that series.

[jemagee]

You seriously think that second round pick would be able to fill Ariza's role right away?  I think not replacing that SF position with someone as good or better than Ariza defensively is a huge gamble in terms of defending the title.  A rookie would not be that player especially not in the playoffs.

No - that's not what i meant to say - I meant to say that the gamble the spurs took (blair in the second round) is a low risk high reward type move compared to the gamble the lakers took which has a much higher degree of risk than the amount of reward it brings (how much better than ariza can he really be?)

I might have screwed up the quote thing...sorry about that...i meant to reply to the fact that the two risks weren't exactly identical (to me) either in terms of risk taken or corresponding upside.

I don't think a second round pick could have replaced ariza

I don't think that Artest brings much more than ariza to off set the risk of him being what I politely will call bat guano crazy...not to mention that he's not the only lakers player who suddenly will attract the cameras of TMZ as fast as ESPN  - seriously - is lamar odom that stupid?

Also, you guys forgot to mention Carmelo Anthony as another reason the Lakers wanted to pick up a stronger defender.  Both Kobe and Ariza are not strong enough to handle him and he really beat the Lakers up in 3 games of that series.

If you obtained one player for one guy that's short sighted and ridiculous - plus i personally think the nuggets vastly over achieved last year and will take a step back.

I would have put my focus on figuring out how to get Bynum to grow up (and stay healthY) personally as opposed to putting another questionable personality in a locker room where Bynum already seems to lack a role model

[Reality]

Oh you mean the GMs that passes on Blair per their doctors advice that he was too damaged.   
Well it's a wait and see if his knees hold up so he can dominate Gasol and on into the playoffs.

He's looking like Chuck Barkley-Rodman on the rebounding front now.

Against a likely lottery team in Houston? Take a pill dude!  How much PT is he going to get behind Bonner, McDyess etc.?

Like the discussion about the Lakers. It is a gamble, but IMO the Lakers themselves thought they were a little soft. They got away with it against a finese team like Orlando, but they're still worried about Boston and the LeBrons.

Honestly, I think Artest will be fine, but the Lakers chances are more related to how Bynum develops this season. They have to match size and strength with their Eastern counterparts and be able to at least achieve a draw on the boards.  Fisher is still going to be their starting point, Really!?

Lets move it over to the DeJuan gets 16 points, 19 rebounds in 22 minutes! :-D thread.

[westkoast]

If you obtained one player for one guy that's short sighted and ridiculous - plus i personally think the nuggets vastly over achieved last year and will take a step back.

I would have put my focus on figuring out how to get Bynum to grow up (and stay healthY) personally as opposed to putting another questionable personality in a locker room where Bynum already seems to lack a role model

Obviously they didn't get Ron Artest just for Carmelo Anthony.  I am saying Carmelo is ANOTHER player on top of Lebron and Paul Pierce that the Lakers wanted a bigger, stronger defender to guard when they meet up.

Bynum has an entire coach dedicated to him.  Whether he has grown up in the off-season remains to be seen.  Some players are mentally tough and some are not.  Bynum still strikes me as a goofy teenager and not quite the Bill Russell type anyways.  I don't know how much more focused the Lakers can be on him. 

As for keeping big men from getting injured, pretty sure every team focuses in on that.  That is just something you cannot fully prevent or prepare for.

I agree with your original point after you explained it better.  The Spurs always have been better than the Lakers (and most of the league actually) at developing players.  They are also top notch when it comes to scouting and signing the right players.  Of course it would have been nice to draft a guy in the second round and be able to work him into a spot slowly instead of playing with fire.  Very few teams can do it successfully.  If you are trying to defend a title NOW you pick up a player who doesn't need to be developed.  You cannot develop a 2nd round pick in one season to defend your title.  Even tho Ron is a head case, it is possible to keep him in check for 1 season.  I think its by the 3rd season when he starts to be a problem.

[Lurker]

  Even tho Ron is a head case, it is possible to keep him in check for 1 season.  I think its by the 3rd season when he starts to be a problem.

I think that Artest will be fine through the season; the playoffs may be too much pressure (not sure if this is the right word) for him to keep his sanity.  I think that if any team could do it it will be the Lakers with Phil and Kobe.  I see this situation very similar to Rodman...but not with the Lakers; with the Bulls.  Same coach; strong MVP level player to keep him in check.

But after Manu makes Artest lose his jock a couple times in a playoff matchup I think Artest could lose it.  In Artest's first year with Houston he threw an elbow at Manu's head in a late season game after being abused.  I'm sure others have felt the same way but Artest is just unstable enough to do it.

[westkoast]

  Even tho Ron is a head case, it is possible to keep him in check for 1 season.  I think its by the 3rd season when he starts to be a problem.

I think that Artest will be fine through the season; the playoffs may be too much pressure (not sure if this is the right word) for him to keep his sanity.  I think that if any team could do it it will be the Lakers with Phil and Kobe.  I see this situation very similar to Rodman...but not with the Lakers; with the Bulls.  Same coach; strong MVP level player to keep him in check.

But after Manu makes Artest lose his jock a couple times in a playoff matchup I think Artest could lose it.  In Artest's first year with Houston he threw an elbow at Manu's head in a late season game after being abused.  I'm sure others have felt the same way but Artest is just unstable enough to do it.

Believe it was JoMal who broke down that Artest has a pattern of being a real good teammate the first year and part of the second.  By the 3rd year either he has worn out his welcome, done something stupid public ally, or wants to be moved to a 'better' team.  I could be wrong about how JoMal broke it down.

For those asking, yes Fisher will start.  Though they are running a 3 guard rotation at point.  Fish will make sure the team gets off to the right start with Shannon Brown and Farmar coming in to relieve him depending on match ups.  Last night it worked very well.

Back to Duncan though.  I think this is the most rest he has got in the off-season in quite some time, right?  Looks like he is in pretty good shape as well.  Very interested to see how the Spurs start out the gate.

[jemagee]

Besides, that big eared goof is too busy playing poker on ESPN to start at point for the lakers

[WayOutWest]

Besides, that big eared goof is too busy playing poker on ESPN to start at point for the lakers

I was not too thrilled at seeing him spend time in the WSOP considering that his spot is threatened by Brown. 

IMO the Lakers were a bit too quick on the draw regarding Ariza/Artest, it seems to me that the Lakers targeted Artest early on and were looking for any excuse to move on him at the cost of losing Ariza.  Ariza is an excellent role player and I was sorry to see him go.  I did not expect him to continue to produce at the clip he did offensively last year but I did expect the same defensive output.  With Artest you get a player that is superior to Ariza in every way except for the "attitude".  With all the things Artest brings to the table he also brings the potential to explode.

I don't think of Bynum as an injury prone player, he just had bad luck with the two injuries he's had, it's not like he's got the foot/knee problems of other big men in the league.  He should fine next year if he gets his head on strait.

[Reality]

Lakers assistant coach Greg Popavich has been running Matt Bonner with the starters.

Makes sense to me.  Bonner's outside shot will allow a more mobile Duncan and Jefferson room to work in the paint.  McDyess overcrowds the lane.

Bonners defense on the other end?  He gonna guard Bynum or Odom?  Lewie Scola?  Josh Howard or Dirk?  Milsap?  West from New Orleans?
If Bonner is jacking up playoff treys at 45-50% then great.

Bonner shot 29% in last years playoffs, and while I'm all for giving a guy a second chance, that second chance should not be done at the expense of the team.  It should be Bonner who has to earn minutes, not vice versa.  If Bonner is hitting his treys again in the reg season, and he certainly did last year, well okay.  But again, for every plus of him hitting a trey, what's it do for both the guy he is guarding and the Spurs team D at the other end?

Only a stubborn retard would have a playoff *frontline* of Mike Finley and Bonner getting big minutes.
4 ancient titles do not change that a bit.  It's been time to move fwd since 2007.

[Joe Vancil]

Well, if you're not going to start Bonner, you've got to start SOMEBODY.  McDyess crowds the lane, and you still need someone to occupy the low post when Duncan is rested.  Marcus Haislip is a bum.  Ian Mahinmi is a bum.  Theo Ratliff is old (and displays some very bum-like characteristics on the offensive end).  Blair is 6-7, which means he gives up 3 inches to Bonner.  Bonner's defense isn't great, but unless you're counting on Ratliff or counting on being so good that you have no low post game other than Richard Jefferson for 10 to 18 minutes per game, SOMEBODY has to play at that spot.  If not Bonner - who is gifted on the other side of the ball - WHO?

[westkoast]

Well, if you're not going to start Bonner, you've got to start SOMEBODY.  McDyess crowds the lane, and you still need someone to occupy the low post when Duncan is rested.  Marcus Haislip is a bum.  Ian Mahinmi is a bum.  Theo Ratliff is old (and displays some very bum-like characteristics on the offensive end).  Blair is 6-7, which means he gives up 3 inches to Bonner.  Bonner's defense isn't great, but unless you're counting on Ratliff or counting on being so good that you have no low post game other than Richard Jefferson for 10 to 18 minutes per game, SOMEBODY has to play at that spot.  If not Bonner - who is gifted on the other side of the ball - WHO?

On top of that, one of the ways teams have played Tim Duncan is by sending that second big man to double him so the ball comes out of his hands.  The Lakers under Phil Jackson have been doing it for a decade now.  If Bonner is able to pull a Lamar Odom or Pau Gasol away from Tim Duncan in the post and he can operate 1 v 1 someone like Bynum (or Gasol) it's going to be bucket Spurs MOST of the time. 

Now granted the double came a lot more when Tony Parker's jumper was suspect.  Now that he has improved that a great deal that is not the de facto game plan (Get the ball OUT of Duncan's hands) but it still leaves the question....Do you want to see Duncan in the post taking a shot or do you want to see Tony Parker taking a jumper?  I think we all agree what the more efficient play is in the long run.

[Lurker]

I think you guys are discounting McDyess too much.  He has the perfect 15-18 foot jumper to compliment Duncan.  And he can defend the second big man.  He played 30 min for Detroit last year putting up 9.6/9.8 shooting 51%.  He is a better version of what Kurt Thomas offered...a better scorer, a better defender.

Ratliff will be the 4th big man maybe 5th.  Duncan (30 min), McDyess (25) and Bonner (20-25) should be the top 3 in minutes.  That only leaves 16-21 minutes.  And if Blair continues to impress he can take 12-15 of those 21 minutes.   Mahinmi to get early season minutes to see if he can be a solid backup.  Ratliff will get more minutes from Blair/Mahinmi as the real (pre)season rolls around in late Feb.  And that doesn't include any PF minutes in a small ball set.  Need a 3 late in the game and I could see Pop putting Parker, Mason, Manu and Finley on the floor with Duncan.  And if it was as final shot I would even put Bonner in place of Duncan.

[Reality]

I think you guys are discounting McDyess too much.  He has the perfect 15-18 foot jumper to compliment Duncan.  And he can defend the second big man.  He played 30 min for Detroit last year putting up 9.6/9.8 shooting 51%.  He is a better version of what Kurt Thomas offered...a better scorer, a better defender.

Quite refreshing and a pleasant surprise to see Lurker get some accurate Spurs assessment.
Joe since i can't have my choice of Lewie Scola and must make do with Pops choice of BonnerFinley, I also think you underestimate McDyess.  Clog the lane?  Or bring down some nice O boards and hit that midrange jumper which -if missed- should allow Timmy Dunker to get some more O boards?  It's an upgrade.  Ave minutes?  I'm not to concerned about exact averages.  It should be situational.  Bonner can play 30 minutes in the 2nd of a back to back vs the Clippers or Sacramento.  Oh to be in that soft Lakers Division.  Or if the Spurs are winning or losing by 25 in the early 4th, bring forth Bonner and his trey set.

As to starting Bonner, while i agree it's total minutes on the floor that will have the most impact (not who starts but who finishes), nonetheless the NBA like most all other sports, the team that gets out to an early substancial lead has the much better chance of winning.  Hence, in Bonner is chucking bricks, I'd want him out immediately.  I do not start Bonner.  Not even close.  I dont even have him on the roster, alto we are talking what is so okay.  If someone has done the Vulcan mind meld with him and he is no longer a pressure bricker, well sa-lute! 

Blair getting 20 is fine with me as he ave'd 35 in 5 NCAA playoff games.  But yes, lets not wreck his knees during the 82 game NBA schedule.
28 one night and 5 the next?  Depending on the situation, yes.  Probably be somewhat eased along.  Just so he is good to go in the playoffs and we do not far too far behind in the standings.  Playoffs, i forsee a frontline of Timmy Dunkar, Jefferson, McDyess, Blair rotating with Theo Rat and Bonner getting spot minutes, the latter only as long as his treys are hitting.

Manhimi i agree is a complete unproven altho i'll stop just short of calling him your "bum".
Midseason trade of BonnerFinley expirings would be nice, esp if some PF-SF vet decides he wants a ring (fat chance) or has a fallout with his current team (you never know, not likely but maybe) and or Popavich and Finley start experiencing marital problems and decide to separate (00000.1 percent chance).