Willie Should Start at PG Over Lou Will

[carolina blue]

Please be specific, and explain how it relates to our need for a PG.

Williams has more natural basketball talent and has been a more highly decorated player throughout every level of the basketball world.  He's also been more productive in the NBA while being several years younger.  If I'm going to try to fit the proverbial square peg into a round hole, I'll take my chances with the younger, more gifted player.

"Why is it time?  Why can't he make a living and contribution as a spark off the bench?"

I feel as though the team has been inconsistant with the message that they've been sending to Williams as he's developed.  Initially, he was used as a back-up PG almost exclusively.  During one of his smallball experiments, Cheeks caught some lightening in a bottle and realized that Williams could score in bunches in a scramble-type situation when the team was trying to make a comeback.  As his job became more in jeopardy, Cheeks spent less time with Williams at the 1 and more time with him as the go-to scorer on the second unit (often times surrounded by a bunch of non-scorers).  I think he needs to start so that he's given as much of a defined role as possible.  Tell him what you want and give him the ball. If he fails, then you know that all he's ever going to be is a combo-guard off the bench.

From what I understand, Jordan's system is primarily a 2 guard front that can function with 2 combo types in place of a traditional PG.  Williams will never be a traditional PG, but he has elite athleticism and legitimate NBA scoring ability. This team is pretty much stuck in the middle right now (again), Williams realizing his potential as a legitiamte NBA starter is one of the things that could get them out of purgatory - either through him elevating their status in the East, or by increasing his trade value so that you can get someone who will.

[RickyPryor]

What other position do you want a 6'1" guy playing?

The two.

On a different team.

IMO, the ability to be a scoring threat and an able penetrator are qualities you want in a point guard. 

A point guard's #1 responsibility is to ensure that the ball is efficiently placed into a position where the highest percentage scoring opportunity resides.  Sometimes, of course, that highest percentage option lies with the PG himself.  

And, so, no.  Those things you mention are not "qualities I want".  The things I speak of all require an acute decision making ability.  That's not something Lou has ever demonstrated.

I've always looked at Williams as an Iverson light-

And so you DO see him as a 2.

With the shooters he has around him, Lou should be able to get close to 8 assists a game and put up 15-20 points, that's a pretty good point guard,.

1.  What "shooters"?
2.  8 assists??  I can't even bring myself to comment on that one.  And so...I better not even try.  

Willie better learn to be a better shooter, lock-down defender and and able to hit an outside shot, or next season will be the last in which he has a solid contract.

Interesting in that each of these traits you mention are the very traits that make Willie a better option:  HE's the better shooter, defender (by a mile) and...uh...shooter (why is that listed twice?).

[rickortreat]

What other position do you want a 6'1" guy playing?

The two.

On a different team.

IMO, the ability to be a scoring threat and an able penetrator are qualities you want in a point guard. 

A point guard's #1 responsibility is to ensure that the ball is efficiently placed into a position where the highest percentage scoring opportunity resides.  Sometimes, of course, that highest percentage option lies with the PG himself.  

And, so, no.  Those things you mention are not "qualities I want".  The things I speak of all require an acute decision making ability.  That's not something Lou has ever demonstrated.

I've always looked at Williams as an Iverson light-

And so you DO see him as a 2.

With the shooters he has around him, Lou should be able to get close to 8 assists a game and put up 15-20 points, that's a pretty good point guard,.

1.  What "shooters"?
2.  8 assists??  I can't even bring myself to comment on that one.  And so...I better not even try.  

Willie better learn to be a better shooter, lock-down defender and and able to hit an outside shot, or next season will be the last in which he has a solid contract.

Interesting in that each of these traits you mention are the very traits that make Willie a better option:  HE's the better shooter, defender (by a mile) and...uh...shooter (why is that listed twice?).

He's not on a different team, he's here, he's our asset and we should develop him to the furthest extent possible.  The qualities I spoke of in Lou have been there with most great points in the NBA, Isiah Thomas being a fine example of a 6" player who combined the ability to score with running a team's offense. Maybe you're old enough to remember how effective Hal Greer was. and you certainly remember Mo Cheeks.  If you don't think those qualties are important in a point guard, you know nothing about the game!  It is much harder to defend all 5 players if they are all a threat; if you have a player out there who can't score, it makes it that much more difficult for your team to be successful.

I didn't see him as a 2, and it was a stupid decision for AI to not develop his point skills to a level comensurate with his scoring.  It is undesirable to have most of your scoring coming from a 6' player, far better for the majority of your points to come from the inside, as long as your bigs can shoot free throws.  Iverson is going to see his stature decline greatly, because he was always a marginal primary scorer- too low a shooting percentage. Williams doesn't have to waste his potential by limiting himself to what Iverson did.  A guy who can play the point well can have a long successful NBA career. Stockton, Nash -neither of these guys has Williams physical skills or quickness. He ought to be able to learn to pass as well, considering his superior ability.

Being a point guard is what will give Lou Williams the best chance for a long successful career in the NBA. This is what you want to see out of your draft picks, that they develop into quality starters. Let the other teams fail to develop their talents and turn out journeyman players.

[Skates]

Is it me or is this whole thread the equivalent of over arguing whether committing suicide is better by gunshot or hanging?  Neither is capable of a good outcome, that is the bottom line.

[rickortreat]

I refuse to assume that Lou can't play the point, until I see the Sixers look like a real team, with a guy in the lane to pass to and outside shooters to spread the floor.

[RickyPryor]

I refuse to assume that Lou can't play the point, until I see the Sixers look like a real team, with a guy in the lane to pass to and outside shooters to spread the floor.

In that scenario, YOU could play the point.

The absence of those things is precisely why we need an actual PG.  And Lou has never - remotely - exhibited the skill set to be that guy.  Never will, IMO.  In fact, I think you should rather he play his natural position.

[carolina blue]

RP -

Now that Ivey's on the roster, Id assume that you'd support him as the starter based on your criteria in the original post.

I'd prefer him to Green.

DraftExpress scouting report:

Overview: A defensive specialist on the perimeter who has the size, athleticism, and attitude to make a nice impact, without making mistakes. Between positions in terms of height. Has added some weight to his frame and has pretty good strength. Shows tremendous quickness and foot speed in transition and on defense. Brings some things to the table offensively. Has improved significantly on the offensive end since entering the League. Outside shot looks a lot cleaner. Gets some easy baskets around the rim from time to time. Capable of handling the ball. Gets most of his minutes because of his effort level on defense. Never afraid to get on the floor for loose balls. Defensive traits are essentially the same ones that allowed him to be successful at Texas. Passable role player who seems to be gaining confidence.

Offense: A just-decent offensive player who doesn?t do a whole lot of scoring. Gets most of his touches in spot up situations, but is also responsible for quite a bit of ball handling in transition and pick and roll situations. Displays a respectable right handed jumper that he has developed significantly since entering the League. Lacks ideal follow-through and elevation, but has become much more consistent from the outside. Becoming a solid three point shooter and a nice catch and shoot option. Decent shooter off the dribble. Won?t put the ball on the floor all that often when he is looking to score. Likes to drive and dish. Will commit some turnovers, but is a pretty good decision maker. Not a very good finisher at the rim due to his lack of size and explosiveness. Doesn?t shoot a very good percentage from the foul line either.

Defense: A very good defender who doesn?t take a lot of risks. Displays very good fundamentals and great intensity, but lacks the dynamic athleticism to make plays on a regular basis. Can defend the shooting guard spot effectively, but can also guard point guards. Won?t reach. Maintains a low stance and really works hard to stay in front of the ball. Won?t lose his man in rotations. Not a great rebounder. Won?t make many mistakes defensively, which is certainly a plus for him.

[RickyPryor]

Interesting thought...but I'd still go with Willie.  While Ivey's size is slightly better than Green's (and vastly superior to Lou's)...and his defense is better than Green's (and vastly, vastly better than Lou's)...his ability to identify the man in the best position to score has never been something I've noticed as being acute.  Of the three guys, Willie might handle that (crucial) chore best.  In fact Ivey's job - as I see it - has been to lock down his man, and then go stand at the arc.

Both he and Willie are better shooters than Lou...but the position requires more than that.

RP -

Now that Ivey's on the roster, Id assume that you'd support him as the starter based on your criteria in the original post.

I'd prefer him to Green.

DraftExpress scouting report:

Overview: A defensive specialist on the perimeter who has the size, athleticism, and attitude to make a nice impact, without making mistakes. Between positions in terms of height. Has added some weight to his frame and has pretty good strength. Shows tremendous quickness and foot speed in transition and on defense. Brings some things to the table offensively. Has improved significantly on the offensive end since entering the League. Outside shot looks a lot cleaner. Gets some easy baskets around the rim from time to time. Capable of handling the ball. Gets most of his minutes because of his effort level on defense. Never afraid to get on the floor for loose balls. Defensive traits are essentially the same ones that allowed him to be successful at Texas. Passable role player who seems to be gaining confidence.

Offense: A just-decent offensive player who doesn?t do a whole lot of scoring. Gets most of his touches in spot up situations, but is also responsible for quite a bit of ball handling in transition and pick and roll situations. Displays a respectable right handed jumper that he has developed significantly since entering the League. Lacks ideal follow-through and elevation, but has become much more consistent from the outside. Becoming a solid three point shooter and a nice catch and shoot option. Decent shooter off the dribble. Won?t put the ball on the floor all that often when he is looking to score. Likes to drive and dish. Will commit some turnovers, but is a pretty good decision maker. Not a very good finisher at the rim due to his lack of size and explosiveness. Doesn?t shoot a very good percentage from the foul line either.

Defense: A very good defender who doesn?t take a lot of risks. Displays very good fundamentals and great intensity, but lacks the dynamic athleticism to make plays on a regular basis. Can defend the shooting guard spot effectively, but can also guard point guards. Won?t reach. Maintains a low stance and really works hard to stay in front of the ball. Won?t lose his man in rotations. Not a great rebounder. Won?t make many mistakes defensively, which is certainly a plus for him.

[rickortreat]

I refuse to assume that Lou can't play the point, until I see the Sixers look like a real team, with a guy in the lane to pass to and outside shooters to spread the floor.

In that scenario, YOU could play the point.

The absence of those things is precisely why we need an actual PG.  And Lou has never - remotely - exhibited the skill set to be that guy.  Never will, IMO.  In fact, I think you should rather he play his natural position.

Why should the job be more difficult for Lou than it is for Chris Paul or Deron Williams?  Neither of those guys would be putting up 10 assists consistently with the team the Sixers put on the floor last season.  Lou should be able to do a better job than most of running this team.  He has good chemistry with Young and Iguodala, Brand will be a big target inside to pass the ball to, and his ability to score, should ensure that the defense is cheating off of one of the other players.

Neither Willie or Ivey is better at anything than Lou, which is why they're behind him on the depth chart. I don't know where you get these ideas.  Green doesn't have the handle to play the point, and Ivey couldn't even beat out Green.

[RickyPryor]

Why should the job be more difficult for Lou than it is for Chris Paul or Deron Williams? 

Because they are actual point guards.

Neither Willie or Ivey is better at anything than Lou,

Except for, ya know, defense.  The other 65% of the game of basketball. 


And maybe shooting.

[tk76-]

Lou is very good at breaking down his man, getting into the lane and putting pressure on a defense.  he also draws fouls.

The rest of his game needs work, and to this point his true PG skills are non-existent- much like Green and Ivey.

This team has zero PG's- because Es had his credit card taken away.  A real shame since there is a decent core of talent.  Sort of like sending out a FB team with a WR at QB or a in the NHL using a defenseman as your goalie.  A waste of an otherwise decent team.

[DuckyNinja]

I think Lou's taking a little too much of a beating right now.  When's the last time we saw Lou play PG with a unit in which he wasn't by far the best scorer on the floor?  He seemingly lacks court vision and decision making, but he's a good passer, and I'm not going to say he's a totally useless PG until I see him fail after practicing with the first unit and failing with them.

[rickortreat]

I'm with Ducky on this. Let's give Lou his chance first.  Meanwhile, Andre Iguodala is interested in having ball-handling opportunities.

I will say this about Iguodala, he's one of the most unselfish players in the NBA, so by his temperament he should be a good ball distributor. I read that He, Lou and Thad are all in town working on their game, and Carney has been working hard as well. 

Seems like the team is excited about their chances this season, and the challenges of learning a new system with a new coach. I'm actually more worried about the Sixers on defense.

[RickyPryor]

Andre Iguodala is interested in having ball-handling opportunities.

Dear lord.  And that's a good thing?

I will say this about Iguodala, he's one of the most unselfish players in the NBA,

In the NBA?

Hmmm...not sure how to explain then why he forces so many low percentage shots near the end of so many games.

[rickortreat]

Andre Iguodala is interested in having ball-handling opportunities.

Dear lord.  And that's a good thing?

I will say this about Iguodala, he's one of the most unselfish players in the NBA,

In the NBA?

Hmmm...not sure how to explain then why he forces so many low percentage shots near the end of so many games.

You mean like that 3 point game winner he swished over Kobe's outstreched hand? Or do you object to his averaging 6-7 assists per game?

The only downside is that he may get tired having the distributor responsibility. But as long as he and Lou are sharing that, it should be beneficial to both and the entire team, as they are likely to enter their offensive sets much faster than they did under Miller, or for that matter Willie.

Sixers offense works best if they score before the defenders can get set-up, particularly off a steal. But to win in the playoffs, they have to be able to score against teams with a set defense. The addition of Brand and the jettison of Miller were all about that. Having two guards who can break down their man off the dribble should be quite disruptive to most teams defenses. As should a health Elton Brand, and an aggressive Thad Young.

It's nice to have a tall guard who can see over and pass over shorter players, or did you forget about Magic Johnson?