The Sixers free agency thread.

[tk76-]

Bibby would have been a good short term fit.  A guy who can shoot and knows the Princeton Offense.  Blake for the same reasons, but with less talent.

As for Miller, sort of tough to read.  I guess Portland could eventually sign him outright if they can't find a better option- but it sounds like nobody really wants Miller as anything more than a short term plan B.  At 33 with defensive issues I can understand.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out.  I can see Miller forced to take a 1-2 year deal.  And the Sixers could be the only ones willing to ive him over the MLE.

[Skates]

It is going to be very interesting, do the Sixers try to wait out the amrket on guys like Miller and see them drop their demands, or do other teams start caving and suddenly there is no one left to be had.  A difficult line to walk for sure.

[carolina blue]

I think that the Hedo switcharoo makes a Miller => POR more likely.

IMO, the key to a Miller S&T is to only take Blake in return.  He's a guy that fits the team's needs and is on a short term contract. Anything else isn't worth the flexibility under the luxury tax that you'd surrender - Outlaw just clogs the roster at the 3/4, Webster was limited athletically before his injury and is reportedly recovering slowly, etc.

Having some flexibility under the tax is more valuable than spending right up to it on mediocre, redundant pieces (Outlaw, MLE non-starters).  Especially in this economic climate, having the flexibility to move some of your youth for a big piece is important - as teams get nervous about giving out a big FA deal they will want to sell early and ensure a return and controlled cost.

[Skates]

I think that the Hedo switcharoo makes a Miller => POR more likely.

IMO, the key to a Miller S&T is to only take Blake in return.  He's a guy that fits the team's needs and is on a short term contract. Anything else isn't worth the flexibility under the luxury tax that you'd surrender - Outlaw just clogs the roster at the 3/4, Webster was limited athletically before his injury and is reportedly recovering slowly, etc.

Having some flexibility under the tax is more valuable than spending right up to it on mediocre, redundant pieces (Outlaw, MLE non-starters).  Especially in this economic climate, having the flexibility to move some of your youth for a big piece is important - as teams get nervous about giving out a big FA deal they will want to sell early and ensure a return and controlled cost.

And we get even more flexibility if we get a decent sized trade exception in return in  Miller/Blake deal.  That would be fine by me.

[tk76-]

Honestly, if they added Blake wouldn't the main part of the roster be set.

G: Blake, Lou, Holiday, Green
F: Iguodala, Young, Kapono
F/C: Sam, Brand, Speights, Smith

That is 11 players that will have some minutes in the regular rotation.  Not a great team, but pretty balanced.  Unless you dum Ssam, not really any free minutes in the rotation.

[anklebreaker]

If we just take back Blake in a Miller S&T do we still have the MLE to use?  How does that work? 

[DuckyNinja]

If we just take back Blake in a Miller S&T do we still have the MLE to use?  How does that work? 

Yes, the only way we lose the MLE is if we renounce it, which would be totally pointless in any conceivable scenario pretty much.

[anklebreaker]

In that case, I'd try and make a play for Blake and then go after Anthony Parker with the MLE. 

Blake/Holiday
Parker/Williams
Iguodala/Kapono
Young/Speights
Brand/Dalembert/Smith

or

Blake/Holiday/Williams
Iguodala/Parker/Williams
Young/Kapono
Brand/Speights
Dalembert/Smith

[carolina blue]

from Depressed Fan:

And now the second list. These are the guys who teams spent the MLE on, against better judgment, and are still paying the price.


Brian Scalabrine
Nazr Mohammed
Vladimir Radmanovic
DeSagana Diop
Jerome James
Tim Thomas
Steven Hunter
Kwame Brown
Marquis Daniels
Greg Buckner
Brian Cardinal
Darius Songalia
Trenton Hassell
Eduardo Najera
Antonio Daniels
Morris Peterson
James Posey
Jared Jeffries
Chris Duhon
Earl Watson
Chucky Atkins
Damien Wilkins
Beno Udrih
Jason Kapono
Reggie Evans
Marcus Banks
Mike James
DeShawn Stevenson

A lot of mistakes have been made using the MLE on mediocre players.

[steelerbomb]

The guy on WIP, Rob Chery, man, he really wants Dalembert gone. And said he would take
" WHATEVER " for him, as would Stefanski probably. oh really huh ?
Okay, how about this doable 3-team trade then.



 Philly-Bucks-Houston.


  Houston trades,


 T-Mac to the Bucks
K.Lowry to Philly
Draft rights to 2nd rounder Chase Budinger to the Bucks.


 Houston gets,

 Dalembert from Philly
Willie Green from Philly
Louis Williams from Philly.


 Reason, ,Houston obviously needs a center in place of Ming. Dalembert is no Ming, but he is far from a stiff. Dalembert would fit Houston's uptempo style, and can board and get some blocks. They lose Lowry, but gain Lou Williams who is a much better offensive player, and more of a scoring threat than Lowry. Willie Green also has offense, and he gives Houston a a bargaining chip so they don't have to cave-in on free agent Von Waffer's contract demands.


The Bucks deal,

Michael Redd to Philly
Kurt Thomas to Philly
Draft rights to 2nd rounder Jodie Meeks to Philly.


Bucks get,

T-Mac
Draft rights to Budinger.


Reason. Look, it's painfulyl clear that the Bucks don't want to pay out Redd's over 18 million next season. The Jefferson trade proves that. T-Mac's deal not only ends this season, but I bet the Bucks can even lower that amount if they and T-Mac can agree on a buy out. Then, they replace the rights of Meeks with Budinger who is a more multi-demensional player then Meeks is, who is only a SG.


Philly trades,

Dalembert-Green, and L.Williams ALL to Houston, and gets back,,


Michael Redd
Kyle Lowry
Kurt Thomas
Draft rights to Jodie Meeks.


 Sixers do take a chance on Redd being healthy, and remaining that way. but they also rid themselves of Dalembert, and his whining ways here in Philly.
They replace Miller with a young, but still somewhat Exp PG in Lowry who IS  a philly native, and who can split the PT with Holiday at the PG spot. Redd gives us a legit true SG and # 1 scorer. lets Iggy move to his more natural SF spot. Yes this means Thad will have to continue to play as a PF, but it's not like he's not used to it. Brand becomes our starting Center, and who is better equipted to do it in Jordan's Princeton offense with his passing out of the post skills. Kurt Thomas is a last year contract player who might give us back some of the toughness lost in Reggie Evans. And Jodie Meeks is a " PURE " shooter who I believe was the player Stefanski was targetting when he was trying to get a 2nd rounder in this past draft.


  We then make a play for Anthony Parker after he is renounced to take Willie Green's scoring role off the bench, and WHAM, there you go. A pretty decent squad right ? Of course this trade can't take place til Aug 23rd when Kurt Thomas can be traded once again. But still, thats plenty of time before Camp opens up. I think ALL three teams do this deal, epecially the Bucks cause they want to rid themelves of Redd's 2010/2011 salary. Houston doesn't get ripped-off either. T-mac has
zero future there in Houston. And both Green & Lou Williams gives Houston some more backcourt offense which is what they mostly need.


 There, done deal, off-season moves all finished :-)

[Skates]

from Depressed Fan:

And now the second list. These are the guys who teams spent the MLE on, against better judgment, and are still paying the price.


Brian Scalabrine
Nazr Mohammed
Vladimir Radmanovic
DeSagana Diop
Jerome James
Tim Thomas
Steven Hunter
Kwame Brown
Marquis Daniels
Greg Buckner
Brian Cardinal
Darius Songalia
Trenton Hassell
Eduardo Najera
Antonio Daniels
Morris Peterson
James Posey
Jared Jeffries
Chris Duhon
Earl Watson
Chucky Atkins
Damien Wilkins
Beno Udrih
Jason Kapono
Reggie Evans
Marcus Banks
Mike James
DeShawn Stevenson

A lot of mistakes have been made using the MLE on mediocre players.

Absolutely true, but one thing teams might do this year is give short term, part MLE deals, using it as more of a fancied up minimum salary exception.  No need to give the full MLE for 5 years.  But say we sign Miller or get Blake and have between $2.5 - $4.5 million in room before hitting the luxury tax.  I think you can sign another good shooting swingman, probably a young guy, for say two years and $6 million total.  If he works out, great, and you retain his Bird rights after those two years I believe, but no long term commitment or tax payments.

I get TK's point about having a full boat rotation wise, but that is assuming that Kapono and WG are guaranteed rotation minutes.  I would like to see more depth and some competition for those guys, no way either one should get minutes if we can find someone who can outplay one of them.  Of course, moving Sammy and/or WG (for equally bad contracts certainly) might change where the needs are.

[DuckyNinja]

From wikipedia: Free agents who qualify for this exception are called "early qualifying veteran free agents," and qualify after playing two seasons without being waived or changing teams as a free agent. Using this exception, a team can re-sign its own free agent for either 175% of his salary the previous season, or the NBA's average salary, whichever is greater. Early Bird contracts must be for at least two seasons, but can last no longer than five seasons.

[rickortreat]

The guy on WIP, Rob Chery, man, he really wants Dalembert gone. And said he would take
" WHATEVER " for him, as would Stefanski probably. oh really huh ?
Okay, how about this doable 3-team trade then.



 Philly-Bucks-Houston.


  Houston trades,


 T-Mac to the Bucks
K.Lowry to Philly
Draft rights to 2nd rounder Chase Budinger to the Bucks.


 Houston gets,

 Dalembert from Philly
Willie Green from Philly
Louis Williams from Philly.


 Reason, ,Houston obviously needs a center in place of Ming. Dalembert is no Ming, but he is far from a stiff. Dalembert would fit Houston's uptempo style, and can board and get some blocks. They lose Lowry, but gain Lou Williams who is a much better offensive player, and more of a scoring threat than Lowry. Willie Green also has offense, and he gives Houston a a bargaining chip so they don't have to cave-in on free agent Von Waffer's contract demands.


The Bucks deal,

Michael Redd to Philly
Kurt Thomas to Philly
Draft rights to 2nd rounder Jodie Meeks to Philly.


Bucks get,

T-Mac
Draft rights to Budinger.


Reason. Look, it's painfulyl clear that the Bucks don't want to pay out Redd's over 18 million next season. The Jefferson trade proves that. T-Mac's deal not only ends this season, but I bet the Bucks can even lower that amount if they and T-Mac can agree on a buy out. Then, they replace the rights of Meeks with Budinger who is a more multi-demensional player then Meeks is, who is only a SG.


Philly trades,

Dalembert-Green, and L.Williams ALL to Houston, and gets back,,


Michael Redd
Kyle Lowry
Kurt Thomas
Draft rights to Jodie Meeks.


 Sixers do take a chance on Redd being healthy, and remaining that way. but they also rid themselves of Dalembert, and his whining ways here in Philly.
They replace Miller with a young, but still somewhat Exp PG in Lowry who IS  a philly native, and who can split the PT with Holiday at the PG spot. Redd gives us a legit true SG and # 1 scorer. lets Iggy move to his more natural SF spot. Yes this means Thad will have to continue to play as a PF, but it's not like he's not used to it. Brand becomes our starting Center, and who is better equipted to do it in Jordan's Princeton offense with his passing out of the post skills. Kurt Thomas is a last year contract player who might give us back some of the toughness lost in Reggie Evans. And Jodie Meeks is a " PURE " shooter who I believe was the player Stefanski was targetting when he was trying to get a 2nd rounder in this past draft.


  We then make a play for Anthony Parker after he is renounced to take Willie Green's scoring role off the bench, and WHAM, there you go. A pretty decent squad right ? Of course this trade can't take place til Aug 23rd when Kurt Thomas can be traded once again. But still, thats plenty of time before Camp opens up. I think ALL three teams do this deal, epecially the Bucks cause they want to rid themelves of Redd's 2010/2011 salary. Houston doesn't get ripped-off either. T-mac has
zero future there in Houston. And both Green & Lou Williams gives Houston some more backcourt offense which is what they mostly need.


 There, done deal, off-season moves all finished :-)

Nice idea, except that I don't think Houston wants Dalembert. I'd be sorry to loose Williams, but getting rid of Green and Dalembert's contracts makes this trade a winner. 

Lots of free agents out there will end up signing for less than the mid-level exception. Sixers will be able to pick up a few players that way if they want to.

We cannot go with Brand at Center and Young at Power Forward.  We'd never get a rebound that way against most teams.  You really want Brand banging with Shaq or Perkins or Howard?  We need a Center so these players can pay their natural positions. Brand is a great 4 and Young should be an excellent 3. Iguodala should thrive at the 2. 

But Blake is too slow and too limited on offense to help run the Sixers. Whoever we get as a guard has to be fast, and have a good handle. The PO doesn't need a great point, it needs players who can run and cut without the ball, and to develop good chemistry so the players know how to help each other score.  What we need is ballers, players who have game.  Miller for his faults, has game.  Blake doesn't, at least not from what I saw. Lou Williams has game, and if he can develop his handle and learn to see the floor, he has the talent to be a point.

If Iguodala and Green and Kopono are there to play the 2, Williams has to play point. I say we need another forward to back up Young at foward, unless you want to see a lot of Iguodala with two other guards on the floor.

[Skates]

Seeing the floor is one of those innate abilities that you either have or don't have, IMO.  Lou Williams does not have it at all, in fact he is quite deficient at it.  It is one of those things that separates PG's from short SG's like Williams.  He also can't defnd his own shadow.  Burst of offense off the bench is what he is, a valuable commodity in its own right, but he will never be an adequate PG in any offense.  even in the triangle or PO to need a PG who can shoot, something he does not do well, at least so far.

[rickortreat]

Seeing the floor is one of those innate abilities that you either have or don't have, IMO.  Lou Williams does not have it at all, in fact he is quite deficient at it.  It is one of those things that separates PG's from short SG's like Williams.  He also can't defnd his own shadow.  Burst of offense off the bench is what he is, a valuable commodity in its own right, but he will never be an adequate PG in any offense.  even in the triangle or PO to need a PG who can shoot, something he does not do well, at least so far.

Defensively I'll agree with you, at least his quickness makes him a good presser. But you don't need to see the whole floor to be effective in the PO as a point.  Lou's problem is that he wasn't used the right way in the offense.  If you wanted to run a standard offense, he would be a problem, although in order to do that you need someone to post up in the paint!  Lou didn't have anyone to distribute the ball too who could make a better move to score than he had himself and that's more the Sixers problem than Lou's. To a certain extent this was also true with Iverson when he was here. Hopefully this problem has been addressed with the additions of Brand, Speghts and Young and possibly Smith.

In the PO, all he has to do is bring the ball up safely and pass.  His next job is to move without the ball, like everyone else, using screens to get open and make a shot. If he could develop his outside shooting, we should be fine with Lou as a point.

The Sixers are going to be a pressing defensive team that generates a lot of it's offense of off easy baskets. That was how they won last season. Lou is a big part of the Sixers defensive pressure. When they are forced to play offense they go into the Princeton, forcing the defense to figure out how to defend against players that are continually moving and cutting to the basket.  Lou could run the pick and roll with Brand, better than Miller ever could.  Thad and Andre are very difficult to guard on the wings and Brand usually requires a double team. All they need is an entry pass.

Part of the charm of the Princeton is that it takes the onus of play making off of the point guard.