Shaq to Cleveland is official

[Lurker]

And Howard...who fouls at one of the highest rates in the NBA...will have to guard Shaq plus protect the paint from LBJ.  Stop focusing on one end of the court, realkoast!

But again Lurker, it wasn't Howard who did a majority of the damage, it was Rashard Lewis and Hedo.

Shaq is 37 as well.  I don't quite see where you all think he is going to dominate for an entire season AND in the playoffs.  The last time he won a title he wasn't even healthy enough to play in the first 2 rounds to make an impact.  That was 3 years ago....

Cleveland doesn't need him for the regular season.  Brown coached under Pop who is the best at "saving" players for the playoffs...see Horry, R.

Shaq is still a strong enough center to help Cleveland IF he is motivated.

And IMO he will be motivated by 3 things:
1) Have more rings than Kobe
2) Have more rings than Duncan
3) Be the first to lead 3 different teams to the title.  In Shaq's mind he has been the leader of all those title teams (and no bickering about Miami - I agree Wade was the catalyst).

[westkoast]

Oh btw, the terms to bring Vince Carter to Orlando has been agreed upon.

[WayOutWest]

Can someone explain to me how this shoots them over Orlando when they still have no answer for Hedo and Lewis?  No one has yet to answer that.

I answered that questions 9 posts ago, either you don't understand it or you're going Reality on us.

[westkoast]

Can someone explain to me how this shoots them over Orlando when they still have no answer for Hedo and Lewis?  No one has yet to answer that.

I answered that questions 9 posts ago, either you don't understand it or you're going Reality on us.

No you said that because Howard doesn't have to be doubled magically means those players are contained....if you want to call that an answer then sure.  To me that's one of those Stretch Armstrong 'what ifs'.  IF a 37 year old Shaq is able to handle a 23 year old Dwight Howard for an entire series then the shooters miss their shots?   If Blake Griffin cannot be guarded next year the Clippers are going to get to the 2nd round!!!!!!

Again guys, the Lakers had much better, quicker defenders on the perimeter than the Cavs did.  The Cavs are UNDERSIZED outside of Lebron and Shaq now save Varrejo (is too slow to cover ground as we saw in the series, Lewis KILLED HIM)  Who does that leave to guard Rashard Lewis and Hedo?   Lebron is not a good enough defender to handle Hedo on the perimeter for an entire series.  Do we make the Celtics/Cavs matchup it's own thread?  Should we mention Kevin Garnett?  Shaq on Garnett right now?  Really?

I do like being the only person on this side of the fence.  We will see come playoff time.  Did you guys forget Shaq is 37 and does not own a move like the sky hook?  Just saying......think about how old and large Shaq is.  Think about his conditioning.  Think about how outmatched they were to begin with.  After thinking about all those things how can you be so sure this shoots them in a title?

[WayOutWest]

No you said that because Howard doesn't have to be doubled magically means those players are contained....if you want to call that an answer then sure.  To me that's one of those Stretch Armstrong 'what ifs'.  IF a 37 year old Shaq is able to handle a 23 year old Dwight Howard for an entire series then the shooters miss their shots?   If Blake Griffin cannot be guarded next year the Clippers are going to get to the 2nd round!!!!!!

The Magic killed the Cavs because their shooter were WIDE open, that will not be the case if the Cavs don't have to double Howard.

[WayOutWest]

I do like being the only person on this side of the fence.  We will see come playoff time.  Did you guys forget Shaq is 37 and does not own a move like the sky hook?  Just saying......think about how old and large Shaq is.  Think about his conditioning.  Think about how outmatched they were to begin with.  After thinking about all those things how can you be so sure this shoots them in a title?

If Shaq can play like he did LAST year, not 2003, 2004, 2005 or 2006, like last year, the Cavs have basically neutralized Howard with an old Shaq.  The Magic have made a major upgrade with Lee for VC, if they can hold on to Hedo then they are set to be the favorites in the EC regardless of how healthy the Celtics come back next year.

I think it's critical for the Lakers to resign their two key FA's, a bunch of teams in the league have upgraded and the Lakers need to keep their squad in tact for the most part.  The moves they made in the draft makes me think the Lakers are freeing up dollars to sign both Ariza and Odom.

[Joe Vancil]

I think it's critical for the Lakers to resign their two key FA's, a bunch of teams in the league have upgraded and the Lakers need to keep their squad in tact for the most part.  The moves they made in the draft makes me think the Lakers are freeing up dollars to sign both Ariza and Odom.

Agreed completely.  The Lakers know what they have, and it looks like they're planning on keeping it.

[westkoast]

No you said that because Howard doesn't have to be doubled magically means those players are contained....if you want to call that an answer then sure.  To me that's one of those Stretch Armstrong 'what ifs'.  IF a 37 year old Shaq is able to handle a 23 year old Dwight Howard for an entire series then the shooters miss their shots?   If Blake Griffin cannot be guarded next year the Clippers are going to get to the 2nd round!!!!!!

The Magic killed the Cavs because their shooter were WIDE open, that will not be the case if the Cavs don't have to double Howard.

You honestly believe that Var can chase around Rashard Lewis and Lebron's defense is good enough to stop Turk/Vince because Shaq is in there?  Weren't you just talking about how Perkins played Howard very well in the playoffs? Yet the Celtics were unable to stop the Orlando shooters from having their way on the perimeter.  Point being that just because Howard doesn't need to be doubled doesn't mean that the Cleveland perimeter defense gets any better.  They are undersized out there (I bring that up mainly for rotation reasons on the defensive end) aside from Lebron James and none of them are good defenders in my book.  I don't see how Shaq makes guys like Mo Williams grow a few inches and turns Lebron James into a defensive stopper ala Ron Artest.

Sounds like a huge leap to say that Shaq is able to guard Howard well, stay out of foul trouble, and be able to sustain this for 30+ minutes a game for an entire series.  If Shaq is effective for less than 30 minutes a game that doesn't shoot them over the top.  Especially when this team can score a lot of points in bunches VERY fast.  Cleveland learned that last year.  His age is too much of a factor for me to agree.  With or with out the Vince Carter trade.

[WayOutWest]

You honestly believe that Var can chase around Rashard Lewis and Lebron's defense is good enough to stop Turk/Vince because Shaq is in there?  Weren't you just talking about how Perkins played Howard very well in the playoffs? Yet the Celtics were unable to stop the Orlando shooters from having their way on the perimeter.  Point being that just because Howard doesn't need to be doubled doesn't mean that the Cleveland perimeter defense gets any better.  They are undersized out there (I bring that up mainly for rotation reasons on the defensive end) aside from Lebron James and none of them are good defenders in my book.  I don't see how Shaq makes guys like Mo Williams grow a few inches and turns Lebron James into a defensive stopper ala Ron Artest.

This discussion stated before the VC trade so it definately changes things but what makes you think Jameer and Lee are so much bigger than West and Mo?  LeBron is NOW and excellent defender, he should ZERO trouble guarding Hedo or Lewis.  LeBron's defense is enough to contain Hedo/Lewis/VC, and if LeBron can step UP to Kobe's level on defense, he can switch around to the guys who is hot like Kobe did with Melo and Billups.

Perkins did an excellent job on Howard but he got into stupid foul trouble with illegal picks, he should get called 15 times a game with is BS picks, and fouls on the perimeter.  IMO Perkins fouled the S out of Howard but they were not calling it so Shaq should be just fine.  It's going to come down to a battle of who gets into foul trouble first, that wasn't even a contest last year because you were FORCED to foul Howard and could only hope he committed dumb fouls.  Now the Cavs have a weapon to go DIRECTLY at Howard, they did not have that last year.

Sounds like a huge leap to say that Shaq is able to guard Howard well, stay out of foul trouble, and be able to sustain this for 30+ minutes a game for an entire series.  If Shaq is effective for less than 30 minutes a game that doesn't shoot them over the top.  Especially when this team can score a lot of points in bunches VERY fast.  Cleveland learned that last year.  His age is too much of a factor for me to agree.  With or with out the Vince Carter trade.

Everything you said about Shaq can apply to Howard, the only difference is that Shaq will tire out and be limited to 30 mins or less and Howard will get into foul trouble and be limited to 30 minutes or less.  That's going to be the key and the Cavs did not have that key last year.  The VC trade has probably made this discussion moot since they are now too big for the Cavs, then again they might not resign Hedo.  If Hedo is not back then this discussion might be exactly the same.

[westkoast]

This discussion stated before the VC trade so it definately changes things but what makes you think Jameer and Lee are so much bigger than West and Mo?  LeBron is NOW and excellent defender, he should ZERO trouble guarding Hedo or Lewis.  LeBron's defense is enough to contain Hedo/Lewis/VC, and if LeBron can step UP to Kobe's level on defense, he can switch around to the guys who is hot like Kobe did with Melo and Billups.

If he was so excellent and he would have no trouble guarding those guys, why didn't he?  Why didn't Cleveland make it a series?  Are you telling me that no one on the Cavs coaching staff knew Lebron was an EXCELLENT defender but you did?  What about having Lebron burn energy to chase these guys around while still being the distributor and primary scorer? 

Kobe is an excellent defender for stretches.  A true excellent perimeter defender is someone like Artest or Battier, a Bruce Bowen.  Kobe and Lebron both do not play quite the same level of defense those guys do for entire games.   Kobe because he can't and needs energy to score.  Lebron because he can't and needs energy to score.

Perkins did an excellent job on Howard but he got into stupid foul trouble with illegal picks, he should get called 15 times a game with is BS picks, and fouls on the perimeter.  IMO Perkins fouled the S out of Howard but they were not calling it so Shaq should be just fine.  It's going to come down to a battle of who gets into foul trouble first, that wasn't even a contest last year because you were FORCED to foul Howard and could only hope he committed dumb fouls.  Now the Cavs have a weapon to go DIRECTLY at Howard, they did not have that last year.

Do you remember when a slower, older Shaq tried to go at players in the paint?  He started to foul out on a consistent basis because his footwork and speed are long gone.  He will plow over people at least once or twice a game.  Also with a POOR perimeter defense he is going to get into foul trouble just as easily when people get into the paint.  That doesn't even include having to guard Dwight Howard who WILL improve his game this off-season.  That is asking A LOT of any player but TOO MUCH for a player who is 37 years old and over 300 pounds.

Everything you said about Shaq can apply to Howard, the only difference is that Shaq will tire out and be limited to 30 mins or less and Howard will get into foul trouble and be limited to 30 minutes or less.  That's going to be the key and the Cavs did not have that key last year.  The VC trade has probably made this discussion moot since they are now too big for the Cavs, then again they might not resign Hedo.  If Hedo is not back then this discussion might be exactly the same.

Yeah everything.....except that he's not 37 years old, he can play 45 minutes in a game if it's close and has shown he can play at a high level for 30+ minutes a game for an entire series   I guess you didn't read the whole thing.   

No matter how you want to slice it Shaq is going to be on the bench more than Howard will be.  Either due to injury, foul trouble, or just plain old being gassed.

Btw guys, motivation doesn't trump age.  Nor does it trump miles put on knees/legs from playing more games than most other big men in this league over the past 10 years with his playoff runs and championships.  I will enjoy being able to say TOLD YA SO to multiple posters.

[WayOutWest]

Everything you said about Shaq can apply to Howard, the only difference is that Shaq will tire out and be limited to 30 mins or less and Howard will get into foul trouble and be limited to 30 minutes or less.  That's going to be the key and the Cavs did not have that key last year.  The VC trade has probably made this discussion moot since they are now too big for the Cavs, then again they might not resign Hedo.  If Hedo is not back then this discussion might be exactly the same.

Yeah everything.....except that he's not 37 years old, he can play 45 minutes in a game if it's close and has shown he can play at a high level for 30+ minutes a game for an entire series   I guess you didn't read the whole thing.   

Everything you said about Shaq can apply to Howard, the only difference is that Shaq will tire out and be limited to 30 mins or less and Howard will get into foul trouble and be limited to 30 minutes or less.

I guess you didn't read the whole thing.   

I guess you didn't UNDERSTAND the whole thing. 

[westkoast]

Everything you said about Shaq can apply to Howard, the only difference is that Shaq will tire out and be limited to 30 mins or less and Howard will get into foul trouble and be limited to 30 minutes or less.  That's going to be the key and the Cavs did not have that key last year.  The VC trade has probably made this discussion moot since they are now too big for the Cavs, then again they might not resign Hedo.  If Hedo is not back then this discussion might be exactly the same.

Yeah everything.....except that he's not 37 years old, he can play 45 minutes in a game if it's close and has shown he can play at a high level for 30+ minutes a game for an entire series   I guess you didn't read the whole thing.   

Everything you said about Shaq can apply to Howard, the only difference is that Shaq will tire out and be limited to 30 mins or less and Howard will get into foul trouble and be limited to 30 minutes or less.

I guess you didn't read the whole thing.   

I guess you didn't UNDERSTAND the whole thing. 

Sorry can't really save face on this one.  Not EVERYTHING I said applies to Howard as well.  NOR IS 'THE ONLY DIFFERENCE' is Shaq will get tired....

- Howard is not 37 years old meaning not only will he not tire out as easily his game is only going to IMPROVE from the year before, same can't be said of Shaq.  In fact you assume a person who is that up there in age is going to take a step down.  What is Shaq going to do to improve his game from last year ?  Bottom line, Shaq is going to stay the same  but most likely drop a notch.  Howard is not going to be the same exact player he was last year.  You don't lose the finals and not work hard in the off-season.  Now add the fact that LAST summer Howard really took his game up a notch and that's why Orlando became a stronger team.   The chance of Shaq falling off is a lot greater than Howard not changing any part of his game, which is what you are basing most of your assumption on.

- Shaq has not shown he can play at a high level for 30+ minutes not just due to BEING TIRED or in foul trouble but because he just doesn't have the ability to play like that anymore night in and night out.  He is not as fast as he was and that affects not only his post moves but his ability to come over to help block shots.  He use to be very good at it but not so much anymore.

So it still stands, you just hit the POST button too fast with out thinking what you said through.

The reason Kareem played so late into his 30s is he has a shot that was very effective.  Shaq does not have that shot.  He mainly gets by on dunks these days.  He'll be 38 years old before the playoffs even start next year.

[WayOutWest]

So it still stands, you just hit the POST button too fast with out thinking what you said through.

Yea right wk, somehow you can think b-ball better than me.     Somehow you can think ANYTHING through better than me.    I won't bother to REPEAT my points over and over again.

[WayOutWest]

Did you any of you guys catch Shaq's comments about going to the Cavs?  I thought I heard him say something about 5 rings, Kobe, and Duncan in the same sentence.

[Reality]

Cue the Lakers Posters predictions of doom and gloom when Shaq left LaLa for Miami. 

Wouldn't it be something if he rededicated himself to the best offseason workout of his career?