What is your guys take on Lebron's 'reason' for not shaking hands / talking

[Skandery]

Yeah Derek, I have to respectfully disagree concerning the handshake.  Now the press conference with scripted answers; sure, I'm not holding our media's silly traditions/sense of entitlement against LeBron.  Whether sought after or not; LeBron is a major face of his city, his teammates, his organization, and his league.  People look up to him as a role model, fans and competitors alike are going to be sensitive to his actions or lack thereof. 

Even if one absolves Lebron of his responsibility as a role model (silly 8 year old can get the lesson of sportsmanship from his dad or little league coach); a handshake is a base representation of mutual respect, nothing more, nothing less.  As a member of the exclusive club of professional basketball players in the NBA; why not swallow your pride and congratulate Dwight Howard the way Joe Johnson swallowed his and congratulated you.  Does anyone else deserve any less respect than you expect to be shown.  Lebron might quietly think to himself, "Yeah I deserve more respect, I'm the best player in the league."  Now that attitude extrapolated further is why, IMHO quality team play has deteriorated to the level it has in this country.  And unfortunately the AAU culture is deteriorating the situation further.

[Derek Bodner]

I think (as usual) people are looking too deep into things.  Trying to put complex, well-reasoned thought into a place where emotions rule instead.

I don't think LeBron was sitting there immediately after being eliminated thinking to himself "man, I'm the better player.  In fact, I'm the best player in the league.  I deserve to be going to the finals.  It's my destiny!  Those bums over there don't deserve it."  I think it was probably much more along the lines of "I expect myself to be the best, and I didn't get it done".

It's funny how we all become armchair psychologists and like to nitpick at every little word and motion made by guys who are in front of a mic and camera an inordinate amount of time.  We use the terms "classless" and "aholes" around guys like (and you know i hate him) Terrell Owens, meanwhile guys like Dante Stallworth kills a guy driving drunk and he's barely on the news.  It's an example of the odd set of values held with regards to sports.    This is a game and a business that, for some reason, people constantly try to place a higher meaning and value around.  Like I said before, I think it's because of how many of us played as a kid, and still try to directly compare to that age bracket.

Quality of team play?  Look no further than expansion.  I always find it humorous to try to compare an era with 12 teams or 20 teams with no salary cap to one with 30 teams and a salary cap.  Apples to Oranges.

I'm also not going to wax poetically and think that the players from previous era's weren't egotistical morons.  Talking about loyalty when talking about Wilt, Magic, Jordan, Isiah and Dr. J?  Ask their wives.  But, again, todays players who may not say the right thing around a mic or classless, meanwhile those names are revered.  Had they had the intense media coverage and scrutiny back then, I think you'd find a heckuva lot more stories about who these players really were. 

quality team play?  Watch defenses, which are as intricate as ever.  And, again, LeBron's quotes had nothing to do with his teammates.

I guess we just expect different things from our athletes.  I don't expect them to be cordial to the players they're directly competing against.  I don't necessarily expect them to go through 7 games of being knocked to the floor, getting pushed, and getting elbows thrown at them, then turn around, hug their opponents, and pat them on the back after they just ended their hopes and dreams.  I expect them to go out and play hard and do everything they can to win.  They are, after all, playing a competitive sport where we designate winners and losers.

I'd like for them not to be drug abusing, 13 out-of-wedlock child fathering, wife-beating, morons.  Can he put on a fake happy face to go out and congratulate the guy who was trying to elbow him in the face 10 minutes ago?  Not at the top of my priority list.

We'll just have to not see eye to eye on this one.

[Derek Bodner]

Does anyone else deserve any less respect than you expect to be shown

Maybe LeBron doesn't care about lining up to shake hands after the series when he wins either?

Again, we're trying to sit here and pretend we know everything that goes through his (and every other player in the league's) head.

[WayOutWest]

Maybe LeBron doesn't care about lining up to shake hands after the series when he wins either?

Maybe?  Maybe it was the LeBron puppet that hung around the court to get HIS hand shook after they beat the Pistons and Hawks?  James = Frontrunner!

Again, we're trying to sit here and pretend we know everything that goes through his (and every other player in the league's) head.

On a basketball discussion board no less!  Imagine that! 

[Joe Vancil]

Does anyone else deserve any less respect than you expect to be shown

Again, we're trying to sit here and pretend we know everything that goes through his (and every other player in the league's) head.

That's a cop-out, Dabods, since regardless of what might have been going through his head, his action was that of a sore loser.  Nothing legitimizes him NOT shaking hands.

[westkoast]

I think (as usual) people are looking too deep into things.  Trying to put complex, well-reasoned thought into a place where emotions rule instead.

I don't think LeBron was sitting there immediately after being eliminated thinking to himself "man, I'm the better player.  In fact, I'm the best player in the league.  I deserve to be going to the finals.  It's my destiny!  Those bums over there don't deserve it."  I think it was probably much more along the lines of "I expect myself to be the best, and I didn't get it done".

It's funny how we all become armchair psychologists and like to nitpick at every little word and motion made by guys who are in front of a mic and camera an inordinate amount of time.  We use the terms "classless" and "aholes" around guys like (and you know i hate him) Terrell Owens, meanwhile guys like Dante Stallworth kills a guy driving drunk and he's barely on the news.  It's an example of the odd set of values held with regards to sports.    This is a game and a business that, for some reason, people constantly try to place a higher meaning and value around.  Like I said before, I think it's because of how many of us played as a kid, and still try to directly compare to that age bracket.

Quality of team play?  Look no further than expansion.  I always find it humorous to try to compare an era with 12 teams or 20 teams with no salary cap to one with 30 teams and a salary cap.  Apples to Oranges.

I'm also not going to wax poetically and think that the players from previous era's weren't egotistical morons.  Talking about loyalty when talking about Wilt, Magic, Jordan, Isiah and Dr. J?  Ask their wives.  But, again, todays players who may not say the right thing around a mic or classless, meanwhile those names are revered.  Had they had the intense media coverage and scrutiny back then, I think you'd find a heckuva lot more stories about who these players really were. 

quality team play?  Watch defenses, which are as intricate as ever.  And, again, LeBron's quotes had nothing to do with his teammates.

I guess we just expect different things from our athletes.  I don't expect them to be cordial to the players they're directly competing against.  I don't necessarily expect them to go through 7 games of being knocked to the floor, getting pushed, and getting elbows thrown at them, then turn around, hug their opponents, and pat them on the back after they just ended their hopes and dreams.  I expect them to go out and play hard and do everything they can to win.  They are, after all, playing a competitive sport where we designate winners and losers.

I'd like for them not to be drug abusing, 13 out-of-wedlock child fathering, wife-beating, morons.  Can he put on a fake happy face to go out and congratulate the guy who was trying to elbow him in the face 10 minutes ago?  Not at the top of my priority list.

We'll just have to not see eye to eye on this one.

If it's no big deal, which we both disagree on that, couldn't he just have done it?  If hand shaking wasn't important and he didn't care why does he wait around when he wins?  Shouldn't a consistent mentality (if he really wasn't being a sore loser) be that after he KILLED Detroit 2 years back that he didn't even bother to shake their hands after?  He should have just assumed they didn't want to shake his hand because he just beat the snot out of them.  Even if you don't want to assume his ego was the reason behind staying out there to get 'props' then you could say he was doing it because that is standard practice in this league during the playoffs and has been before Lebron James was born.

I do understand what you are expressing as far as letting his emotions get the best of em.  That does happen and I don't blame him for that.  We've all let our emotions dictate actions we have to apologize for later.  The key part of that is 'apologize later' not be disrespectful towards the person(s) who was on the receiving end of our emotional outburst.

[rickortreat]

Hold on a minute!  The right thing to do, as we perceive it, is a learned behavior.  For top flight athletes, coddled from early on in their careers, learning the right thing is hard, since in general they're not used to being on the losing side.

I don;t think anyone would disagree that LeBron was dissapinted, maybe even crestfallen. He's viewed a a favorite son in Cleveland, their hero.  More than wanting to see good character from him, they wanted a ring!

LeBron is a free agent this summer, and he's going to be torn between his loyalty to his home state and fans, and the chance to write his own ticket anywhere.  There's no question in my mind that he wants a title, and in truth he'd be sacrificing by staying in Cleveland, where his teamates have been exposed as being inadequate and old.

I think in the frame of mind he was in, he didn't want to answer any questions or provide the usual boiler-plate answers about his team and how great his opponents were.  The right thing would have been to stand there as a man, knowing he did what he could and it wasn't enough. I'll tell you this, he doesn't want to get used to being in that situation or being good at it.

Unless there's more fallout from this, he's not going to feel the least bit bad about walking out.

[Reality]

If Orlando needs to remember a 6 month old game to get them excited next year, then they're already behind the 8 ball.

Is clearly being frustrated and showing emotion maybe not the most mature thing to do?  Maybe.  But it doesn't bother me.  These are human beings with emotion.  I'm sick of stock, scripted answers just to appease the media and fickle fanbase.  I find robots boring.

Bing.

I'm also not going to wax poetically and think that the players from previous era's weren't egotistical morons.  Talking about loyalty when talking about Wilt, Magic, Jordan, Isiah and Dr. J?  Ask their wives.  But, again, todays players who may not say the right thing around a mic or classless, meanwhile those names are revered.  Had they had the intense media coverage and scrutiny back then, I think you'd find a heckuva lot more stories about who these players really were.

Bing.

Welfare Fraud

What good is a handshake if the person shaking your hand is really thinking "I'm better than this scrub" anyway? I doubt the Magic even care, if anything they probably take some kind of enjoyment out of it.

Bing.

For the He Must Shake Posters, does a shake really mean you are a Good Winner and a Non Shake automatically a Poor Loser.
Seems pretty Pharaseetical to insist 100% on one way or the other.

[Joe Vancil]

For the He Must Shake Posters, does a shake really mean you are a Good Winner and a Non Shake automatically a Poor Loser.
Seems pretty Pharaseetical to insist 100% on one way or the other.

No, and yes.  Offering the handshake only means you're a good winner if you do it with respect to the opponent - not simply because it's expected or because you're mugging for the camera.  But NOT shaking - whether after winning OR losing - automatically makes you a poor sport.

[Derek Bodner]

If it's no big deal, which we both disagree on that, couldn't he just have done it?

Sure.

My point is I don't care.

[WayOutWest]

Sure.

My point is I don't care.

OK, my point is it does matter whether we care or not.

[Skandery]

OK, my point is it does it matter whether we care or not.

Things are only as good as the standards we collectively set.

For the He Must Shake Posters, does a shake really mean you are a Good Winner and a Non Shake automatically a Poor Loser.

No, but that's beside the point.

I'm also not going to wax poetically and think that the players from previous era's weren't egotistical morons.  Talking about loyalty when talking about Wilt, Magic, Jordan, Isiah and Dr. J?

Reputation sticks around.  I'll give Jordan credit for one thing.  After being ritually tortured and physically beaten up by the Bad Boys of Detroit, annually, he begrudgingly walked over and shook hands with the same a-holes that just spent a series laying him out.  Now when Chicago got over the hump and beat Detroit in 1991, Isiah Thomas DID NOT stick around to shake hands with any Chicago player and within NBA circles, that's still looked at with a black mark.  Whether Isiah cares is a moot issue.

I also don't think this is solely a sports issue; or that we're unfairly scrutinizing star players.  If your sister marry's someone you hated in high school, isn't it a sign of respect to her that you still make the wedding and shake his hand when the recieving line forms.  Or if a manager makes your work life miserable to the point of leaving the job, you still give 2 weeks notice as employment etiquette to get a reference for the next position.  You don't want to do it, you may even feel you shouldn't have to do it, but you do it anyway. 

I'll tell you this if I played in the NBA, and saw Lebron pull this stunt and then classlessly defend it the way he has.  I wouldn't shake his hand if he beat me in a game of horse, let alone a game or series.  What goes around comes around with me.  Once again to be specific I could care less about the post-game presser, but there is no excuse for not shaking hands with anyone; and he can't hide behind, "I was so emotionally distraught, it slipped my mind . . . woopsy".     

[Reality]

For the He Must Shake Posters, does a shake really mean you are a Good Winner and a Non Shake automatically a Poor Loser.

No, but that's beside the point.

What is the point?  btw I'm not neccessarily in support of his NonShake.

[Reality]

I'll tell you this if I played in the NBA, and saw Lebron pull this stunt and then classlessly defend it the way he has.  I wouldn't shake his hand if he beat me in a game of horse, let alone a game or series.  What goes around comes around with me.  Once again to be specific I could care less about the post-game presser, but there is no excuse for not shaking hands with anyone; and he can't hide behind, "I was so emotionally distraught, it slipped my mind . . . woopsy".     

So why do you have a stance, a rule if you will that you will not forgive him for the Non Shake?  Aren't you reading his motive and as 'bods posted, who are we to know for a fact what his motives were?  Maybe he promised he would win to a burn victim who said he just wanted to see the Cavs in the finals once before he died.

Or maybe Lebron was being a selfish jerk, as Welfare Fraud posted, sadly is being selfish and pampered what we have come to expect the NBAs elite to be.  Except for Timmy Dunks and many of the low ego emission Spurs of course.

[Lurker]

Or maybe Lebron was being a selfish jerk, as Welfare Fraud posted, sadly is being selfish and pampered what we have come to expect the NBAs elite to be.  Except for Timmy Dunks and many of the low ego emission Spurs of course.

Shows how little you know.  Duncan is regularly called out for not meeting with the press after games.  Hollinger even referred to it in the articlew he wrote about James.

Now go back to your senseless rambling.