Lakers at Celtics

[WayOutWest]

While I agree WOW, I sorta feel like you are thinking of Trevor Ariza as the bonafide lock down defender in this league ala Bruce Bowen of years past.  There is very few players in this league who can guard Paul Pierce.  If there were I don't think the Celtics have as much success as they do.  Ray Allen is very guardable and KG, as long as hes Mr Jump Shot, can be held in check points wise.  PP on the other hand is a beast.  Usually when he doesnt score a lot it is because he did not play well.

IMO Ariza should be a lock down defender ala Kobe.  I agree that neither Kobe or Ariza have the bulk to guard physical guys like Pierce but Ariza was giving up way too easy on the picks and did not bring his overall A game like I'm used to seeing.

As for Josh Powel, he'll learn.  I really like the pick up.  He tries hard for rebounds and has a nice jumper for a big guy.  I think as he gets more playing time on the Lakers he will understand his role a bit better.  I mean he's guarding seasoned vets who are champions.  He's not there.

Josh was getting worked by Powel and Big Baby, I would definately cut Josh some slack vs guys like KG and Perkins but for Powel and Big Baby to get over on him was not something I like to see.

[westkoast]

IMO Ariza should be a lock down defender ala Kobe.  I agree that neither Kobe or Ariza have the bulk to guard physical guys like Pierce but Ariza was giving up way too easy on the picks and did not bring his overall A game like I'm used to seeing.

I do agree we tend to get a better game from Ariza.  Good point about the screens too.  As for lock down defender ala Kobe.  Kobe is able to lock people down for spurts but he is not a lock down defender.  I actually think over a longer period of time Ariza plays better defense.

Josh was getting worked by Powel and Big Baby, I would definately cut Josh some slack vs guys like KG and Perkins but for Powel and Big Baby to get over on him was not something I like to see.

Perkins and Big Baby are larger than he is though.  I think he needs more playing time and he should get it now that Bynum is gone.  I envision Powel as a Hoarce Grant type player (when he was on the Lakers) he rebounds, provides a bigger body, and can nail a 15 foot jumper when asked.

[Reality]

I think there were lots of fouls on both teams.  I also think the refs let it get a little out of hand.

You didnt comment on the Fisher-KG 5th foul call.

'westkoast

Probably because I didn't see it. 

The question was addressed to msc, not you.
Yet you "didn't see it" but are spouting about the physicallity of the game.  WoW, after you take westkoast to another showing of "Milk", further hook him up with some ESPN classic showings of 80s hoop.  To see some physical games.

Yes the Celts-Lakers game was physical at times, yet it still featured many patisy calls going against both sides.  Favoring the Lakers gamewide, of course.  Lets see, NBA norms.  Home team gets cooking, team behind has to foul (used 5000 times as an excuse by Laker posters to talk away their FT advantage in previous years/games).  Gee, Boston lead virtually the entire 2nd half.  So they had to foul to, oh wait they didnt have to and they didnt!

At any rate, KG getting fouled out for another Faggy Fisher piroette act.  Then the game ending non call, Dereek holding Ray Allens left arm because he isn't good enough to guard him honestly.  Proper call?  Swisher yet again gets to waltz off.   Que the end of game parrots, as if Boston would have been allowed the same. 

And WoWkoastie, as to your spinning about Pierces defense, twice with the game virtually on the line in the final 1:30 of regulation, Pierce gave up three pointers to Kobme, back to back at that.  Both times the Celts had the lead, both times Kobes shot gave the Lakers either the lead or tie.  The final missed trey in reg by Kobme, we all knew he was going to ballhog no matter what.  All that required is chase him around a little bit and watch him hork.

Wow!  Pierce went 1 for 3 with the game on the line in reg.

[WayOutWest]

I do agree we tend to get a better game from Ariza.  Good point about the screens too.  As for lock down defender ala Kobe.  Kobe is able to lock people down for spurts but he is not a lock down defender.  I actually think over a longer period of time Ariza plays better defense.

Ariza's contribution to the Lakers is D and the occasional open jumper ala Bowen.  If Kobe was not a primary scorer he would be a lock down defender, that is why I think Ariza sould be doing a bit more.  Pierce pretty much had his way with Ariza, it did not help that the refs were wearing Pierce jerseys the whole game, I was so pissed at all the calls the Celtics were gifted and all the illegal moving screens the Celtics are allowed to make.  I was glad the refs didn't bail out the Celtics in the end.  It makes a huge difference for Pierce when the refs don't bail him out.

Perkins and Big Baby are larger than he is though.  I think he needs more playing time and he should get it now that Bynum is gone.  I envision Powel as a Hoarce Grant type player (when he was on the Lakers) he rebounds, provides a bigger body, and can nail a 15 foot jumper when asked.

Powel is listed at 6'9 but he doesn't seem to be that big.  IMO Powel is not a "big body", he is more of a hustle energy guy.  The nice thing about Turiaf last year was that he was a big body and huslte guy.  When Turiaf was forced to play center he was routinely out "bigged" by guys but his hustle and energy made up for it, same for Powel on most nights but not against the Celtics for some reason.

Overall I'm still a bit dissapointed the Lakers didn't blow the Celtics out because they Lakers missed so many FT's.

[westkoast]

I think there were lots of fouls on both teams.  I also think the refs let it get a little out of hand.

You didnt comment on the Fisher-KG 5th foul call.

'westkoast

Probably because I didn't see it. 

The question was addressed to msc, not you.
Yet you "didn't see it" but are spouting about the physicallity of the game.  WoW, after you take westkoast to another showing of "Milk", further hook him up with some ESPN classic showings of 80s hoop.  To see some physical games.

Yes the Celts-Lakers game was physical at times, yet it still featured many patisy calls going against both sides.  Favoring the Lakers gamewide, of course.  Lets see, NBA norms.  Home team gets cooking, team behind has to foul (used 5000 times as an excuse by Laker posters to talk away their FT advantage in previous years/games).  Gee, Boston lead virtually the entire 2nd half.  So they had to foul to, oh wait they didnt have to and they didnt!

At any rate, KG getting fouled out for another Faggy Fisher piroette act.  Then the game ending non call, Dereek holding Ray Allens left arm because he isn't good enough to guard him honestly.  Proper call?  Swisher yet again gets to waltz off.   Que the end of game parrots, as if Boston would have been allowed the same. 

And WoWkoastie, as to your spinning about Pierces defense, twice with the game virtually on the line in the final 1:30 of regulation, Pierce gave up three pointers to Kobme, back to back at that.  Both times the Celts had the lead, both times Kobes shot gave the Lakers either the lead or tie.  The final missed trey in reg by Kobme, we all knew he was going to ballhog no matter what.  All that required is chase him around a little bit and watch him hork.

Wow!  Pierce went 1 for 3 with the game on the line in reg.

I didn't see your comment dummy.  I didn't say I didn't see the game.

Besides even if I missed ONE PLAY how does that all the sudden mean I didn't watch the game?  Save your dummy logic for someone else.

Pierce did not GIVE UP 3s to Kobe either.  That last 3 Kobe hit Pierce was ALL OVER HIM.  Seriously, stop.  You act like no one watched the game.

The game was physical.  ESPN writers said it, local sports media said it, fans who actually watched the game said it, a friend of mine who lives in Boston said it, EVERYONE SAID IT.  You are wrong.

[WayOutWest]

You are wrong.

What else is new?  Does being COMPLETELY wrong every stop him? 

[Joe Vancil]

Much as I hate to take up Reality's case on this, HE HAS A POINT.

You can't call this a "physical game" and argue that there was an offensive foul on Garnett against Fisher, however, in such case, you can't say Ray Allen was fouled.

And if it's not a "physical game," then you can call the foul on Garnett, but you have to call the foul on Fisher when Ray Allen took the shot.

I'd call it rather inconsistent officiating.

[westkoast]

Joe,

Whether calls were missed or not does not change if the game was physical or not.  Guys were getting pushed, pulled, shoved, grabbed, and hit the entire game. 

[Laker Fan]

I absolutely CANNOT understand how anyone can say it wasn't a physical game! Am I misreading these posts? 'Koast point that inconsistent calls and poor officiating does not change the fact that Boston is a borderline thuggish physical team is dead on, and all the while they're crying like little girls when the calls don't go their way, starting to look like the Boston of the 80's when to comes to that, Paul Pierce especially, and it seems to be rubbing off on the once noble Kevin Garnett.

[Lurker]

I absolutely CANNOT understand how anyone can say it wasn't a physical game! Am I misreading these posts? 'Koast point that inconsistent calls and poor officiating does not change the fact that Boston is a borderline thuggish physical team is dead on, and all the while they're crying like little girls when the calls don't go their way, starting to look like the Boston of the 80's when to comes to that, Paul Pierce especially, and it seems to be rubbing off on the once noble Kevin Garnett.

I read in an article the other day that a game vs the Warriors PP turned to the ref and said something like: "I deserve that call...I've got a ring".  Whereas Stephen Jackson turned to the ref and said: "So do I".


 

[WayOutWest]

I absolutely CANNOT understand how anyone can say it wasn't a physical game! Am I misreading these posts? 'Koast point that inconsistent calls and poor officiating does not change the fact that Boston is a borderline thuggish physical team is dead on, and all the while they're crying like little girls when the calls don't go their way, starting to look like the Boston of the 80's when to comes to that, Paul Pierce especially, and it seems to be rubbing off on the once noble Kevin Garnett.

I read in an article the other day that a game vs the Warriors PP turned to the ref and said something like: "I deserve that call...I've got a ring".  Whereas Stephen Jackson turned to the ref and said: "So do I".


 

Takes us down memory lane Lurker, why did the Spurs let Action Jackson walk?  I can tell the guy has a major attitude but he uses that attitude to play the game like a killer on the same level as Kobe and DWade.  He doesn't have the athletic ability of those guys but he's a monster when you need a basket no matter who is guarding him.

[westkoast]

I absolutely CANNOT understand how anyone can say it wasn't a physical game! Am I misreading these posts? 'Koast point that inconsistent calls and poor officiating does not change the fact that Boston is a borderline thuggish physical team is dead on, and all the while they're crying like little girls when the calls don't go their way, starting to look like the Boston of the 80's when to comes to that, Paul Pierce especially, and it seems to be rubbing off on the once noble Kevin Garnett.

I read in an article the other day that a game vs the Warriors PP turned to the ref and said something like: "I deserve that call...I've got a ring".  Whereas Stephen Jackson turned to the ref and said: "So do I".


 

Takes us down memory lane Lurker, why did the Spurs let Action Jackson walk?  I can tell the guy has a major attitude but he uses that attitude to play the game like a killer on the same level as Kobe and DWade.  He doesn't have the athletic ability of those guys but he's a monster when you need a basket no matter who is guarding him.

He really didn't turn into a beast until much later and when he got to be the focus of an offense.  There was no way that ever would have broken out in SA because as much as I think he's a weapon on the offensive end I would not want to see him shoot the ball before Duncan, Parker, and Manu (in that order).  In order for him to operate he has to dominate the ball a bit or he just turns into a wild maning tossing up shots.  Not exactly the kind of discipline that Pop teaches.

[Lurker]

I absolutely CANNOT understand how anyone can say it wasn't a physical game! Am I misreading these posts? 'Koast point that inconsistent calls and poor officiating does not change the fact that Boston is a borderline thuggish physical team is dead on, and all the while they're crying like little girls when the calls don't go their way, starting to look like the Boston of the 80's when to comes to that, Paul Pierce especially, and it seems to be rubbing off on the once noble Kevin Garnett.

I read in an article the other day that a game vs the Warriors PP turned to the ref and said something like: "I deserve that call...I've got a ring".  Whereas Stephen Jackson turned to the ref and said: "So do I".


 

Takes us down memory lane Lurker, why did the Spurs let Action Jackson walk?  I can tell the guy has a major attitude but he uses that attitude to play the game like a killer on the same level as Kobe and DWade.  He doesn't have the athletic ability of those guys but he's a monster when you need a basket no matter who is guarding him.

He really didn't turn into a beast until much later and when he got to be the focus of an offense.  There was no way that ever would have broken out in SA because as much as I think he's a weapon on the offensive end I would not want to see him shoot the ball before Duncan, Parker, and Manu (in that order).  In order for him to operate he has to dominate the ball a bit or he just turns into a wild maning tossing up shots.  Not exactly the kind of discipline that Pop teaches.

What koast said...and money.  Spurs offered something like 3 years/$10-11 mil.  Jackson thought after hitting a few big 3s in the playoffs that he was worth more.  Spurs front office wasn't going to commit big bucks to him.

[Ted]

" . . . and it seems to be rubbing off on the once noble Kevin Garnett."

Noble = sucker punching rookies and backing down from Paul Millsap, and any other player with a name.

Garnett is a PB

[westkoast]

" . . . and it seems to be rubbing off on the once noble Kevin Garnett."

Noble = sucker punching rookies and backing down from Paul Millsap, and any other player with a name.

Garnett is a PB

LOL  What happened to the original Ted?  I am not knocking the new one, in fact I like the new Ted.  Just wondering where the old one went.  I don't know if he would refer to anyone as a PB.