Lakers vs Spurs 01/14/09

[WayOutWest]

B-Rad n WoWkoastie trying to act all cutesy before the game re Josh Powell.  Then getting self owned -yet again- when Powell really was a huge role factor.
Well que skirt off...

You two are money in the self owning dept.  Place bets and let the cash cow roll.

Mason's individual defense on Kobe was VERY good.  Fabbs, you're an idiot as usual; Kobe took that three because Mason was watching for the pick and backing off to keep Kobe from going past him.  The Spurs basically had one double to throw at Kobe, and if you recall, they used it wisely.

Obstructed_View
Position: Rugged Forward
Team: San Antonio Spurs
vBookie Cash: $66
Post Count: 16,299

LOL, Reality is an idiot everywhere, even while trying to kiss Spurs ass and diss the Lakers dynasty he gets no love, not even retard love. 

[WayOutWest]

After last nights game I honestly don't think the Spurs will go very far in the playoffs this year.  TD absolutely needs some consistent help in the front court. Look at the front lines of the teams they are going to have to face in the playoffs, Shaq/Amare, Okur/Boozer/Milsap, Bynum/Gasol and you still have decent front lines in Houston, New Orleans and Portland.  I know Shaq is way past his prime and Boozer is soft but they are not too old or soft to own every C/PF on the Spurs not named Tim Duncan.

TD needs help because even with healthy TP and Manu, they will not be enough to offset what the average or above average C's and PF's tandums out in the WC that TD has to practically take on by himself. Not sure who's out there for the Spurs but most teams will have no trouble shooting over, thru, and around T-RexBonner/Thomas/Flabs OhBencho.

With the moves that where made last year, even a few this year, how can the Spurs front office stand pat?

[Joe Vancil]

After last nights game I honestly don't think the Spurs will go very far in the playoffs this year.  TD absolutely needs some consistent help in the front court. Look at the front lines of the teams they are going to have to face in the playoffs, Shaq/Amare, Okur/Boozer/Milsap, Bynum/Gasol and you still have decent front lines in Houston, New Orleans and Portland.  I know Shaq is way past his prime and Boozer is soft but they are not too old or soft to own every C/PF on the Spurs not named Tim Duncan.

TD needs help because even with healthy TP and Manu, they will not be enough to offset what the average or above average C's and PF's tandums out in the WC that TD has to practically take on by himself. Not sure who's out there for the Spurs but most teams will have no trouble shooting over, thru, and around T-RexBonner/Thomas/Flabs OhBencho.

With the moves that where made last year, even a few this year, how can the Spurs front office stand pat?

WayOut,

I was actually thinking the same thing.  I think the Spurs front-line is awfully thin, especially considering those of LA, Utah (although we're looking pretty thin right now), and Phoenix.  And assume these guys were to meet up with Boston or Cleveland or Detroit.  That's an awful lot of work for Duncan.

I'm actually reasonably high on Bonner and Thomas, but Bonner is a big man in the mold of Nowitzki (without the rebounding), and Thomas is a big man whose pretty long in the tooth.  Right now, I'd bet the Spurs are sorry they dumped Scola.

[WayOutWest]

I'm actually reasonably high on Bonner and Thomas, but Bonner is a big man in the mold of Nowitzki (without the rebounding), and Thomas is a big man whose pretty long in the tooth. 

Bonner is the new, Kevin Willis T-Rex, except Bonner doesn't have the size, strength, or toughness that the old T-Rex had.  He's not much of a defender and his game is strictly spot up shooting.  While that might work at times offensively, eventually the Spurs get bit on the defensive end with that guy.  Thomas is too old, slow, and short to hang with the WC big men.

Right now, I'd bet the Spurs are sorry they dumped Scola.

LOL.  I bet the Spurs feel like kicking Flabs Obencho in the face everytime they think about it.  I didn't know much about the guy but when I saw him play in the Olympic Qualifier I knew the guy had the skills to play in the NBA.  Scola would have been a perfect fit for the Spurs but for various reason they could not work things out.  Makes me wonder what the big hold up was considering how easily Houston worked through it to get him on the squad.

[Lurker]

And with all that weakness on the front line the Spurs are still the top team in the league in defensive rebounding snatching almost 78% of opponents misses.  They are absolutely horrible on the offensive glass but this is because 1) Bonner is getting minutes because he spreads the floor by being a solid 3 pt threat and 2) the Spurs go small a lot with Duncan + Parker + 3 swing guys.  Thomas has missed several games due to offseason injury and is just working into the rotation.  Fabs has had health (foot) problems lately and has fallen out of the rotation.

Thomas, Fabs and Bonner all bring different strenghts to the table.  Thomas is the best rebounder and has the best 10-12 foot jumper.

Fabs is the best defender and sets the best screens on the team.  He also is the best passer of the 3.

Bonner brings the most hustle and the longest shooting range.  He is currently 2nd in the NBA in 3pt %.

And for all the weakness in the Spurs front court they still have the league's 5th best record.  However I agree the Spurs could use another big man in their quest for another ring.  But I also think they can make a solid push with the team as it stands.  They may look weak on paper (and the court according to some) but they keep getting the "W"...and that is what counts the most.  16 Ws in the playoffs and you are fitted for bling.

I see the west as developing into 3 tiers for the playoff teams:

Lakers

Hornets
Spurs
Jazz (when completely healthy)

Suns
Rockets
Nuggets
Mavs
Blazers

[Reality]

They may look weak on paper (and the court according to some) but they keep getting the "W"...and that is what counts the most.  16 Ws in the playoffs and you are fitted for bling.

lurker,
just asking, have zero interest in trying to change you mind or vice versa, that having been qualified...
Where you fine with the Spurs offensive strategy after the double digit lead at home to the Lakers?

[Lurker]

They may look weak on paper (and the court according to some) but they keep getting the "W"...and that is what counts the most.  16 Ws in the playoffs and you are fitted for bling.

lurker,
just asking, have zero interest in trying to change you mind or vice versa, that having been qualified...
Where you fine with the Spurs offensive strategy after the double digit lead at home to the Lakers?

Yes.

They ran their offense and missed a couple open shots.  Also I (and I would guess Pop) would be happy to bet a lead like that on Josh Powell hitting jumpers consistently.

[WayOutWest]

But I also think they can make a solid push with the team as it stands.

That is exactly my point and the problem with the Spurs Lurker.  IMO the Duncan era Spurs are at a level where anything but a Championship is a failure.  Being a non-Spurs fan, in fact the Spurs are one of my least favorite teams because they are the only team out west that has beaten the Lakers in the last decade, even I expect them to go for a Championship.  Make a deep push in the playoffs is "beneath" the Tim Duncan Spurs IMO.  I hate and respect the Tim Duncan Spurs that much.

[Lurker]

But I also think they can make a solid push with the team as it stands.

That is exactly my point and the problem with the Spurs Lurker.  IMO the Duncan era Spurs are at a level where anything but a Championship is a failure.  Being a non-Spurs fan, in fact the Spurs are one of my least favorite teams because they are the only team out west that has beaten the Lakers in the last decade, even I expect them to go for a Championship.  Make a deep push in the playoffs is "beneath" the Tim Duncan Spurs IMO.  I hate and respect the Tim Duncan Spurs that much.

By solid push I mean play competitively in the WCF (last year's 4-1 was disappointing) and have a solid chance of winning it all.  IMO this is basically the same thing that the Laker fans expect from their team.  It goes to the graphic that they showed during the game the other night about top winning % in franchise history...Lakers #1, Spurs #2 and Celtics #3.  Our fans are as spoiled and jaded as the other two teams we just don't get the national respect for consistency.  And Spurs fans have learned to live with the disappointment of having a solid team that falls short in the playoffs going back to the 70s when the Spurs were in the Eastern conference and got ousted in a couple 6-7 game series with the Unseld-led Bullets when they went to the finals.

From 1977-1998 (22 seasons) the Spurs made the playoffs 18 times.  8 times they lost in the first round (twice to the eventual champion).  6 times they lost in the second round with 4 series going 6/7 games and 5 of the 6 series being lost to the eventual conference champ.  The other 4 times they were in the conference finals with 3 epic series.  The 1979 series with the Bullets that went 7 games.  1983 vs the Lakers went 6 games.  And 1995 vs Hakeem's Rockets (great, great series that I saw in person).

[westkoast]

They may look weak on paper (and the court according to some) but they keep getting the "W"...and that is what counts the most.  16 Ws in the playoffs and you are fitted for bling.

lurker,
just asking, have zero interest in trying to change you mind or vice versa, that having been qualified...
Where you fine with the Spurs offensive strategy after the double digit lead at home to the Lakers?

Yes.

They ran their offense and missed a couple open shots.  Also I (and I would guess Pop) would be happy to bet a lead like that on Josh Powell hitting jumpers consistently.

You mean Popavich did not come onto this message board to hear me coaching from the Internet?  I said Josh Powell's name before the game.  I even pointed out he had a good jumper.  Obviously this is another example of Pop not being smart enough to come to this message board to get tips.

[WayOutWest]

You mean Popavich did not come onto this message board to hear me coaching from the Internet?  I said Josh Powell's name before the game.  I even pointed out he had a good jumper.  Obviously this is another example of Pop not being smart enough to come to this message board to get tips.

I actually fault Pop for not going to Manu a little bit more durring their dry spell when the Lakers made their run.  Manu was ultra hot that game, I heard the commentators after the game saying Manu had not had a game like that all year.  I did not know Manu was having a break out game, it looked like typical Manu take high risk/high reward shots and moves.  But when the Spurs coundn't buy a basket I wondered where Manu was......I expect a little bit of a choke job from TD and TP but not from Manu.  Dumb yes, choke no when it comes to Manu.

[westkoast]

You mean Popavich did not come onto this message board to hear me coaching from the Internet?  I said Josh Powell's name before the game.  I even pointed out he had a good jumper.  Obviously this is another example of Pop not being smart enough to come to this message board to get tips.

I actually fault Pop for not going to Manu a little bit more durring their dry spell when the Lakers made their run.  Manu was ultra hot that game, I heard the commentators after the game saying Manu had not had a game like that all year.  I did not know Manu was having a break out game, it looked like typical Manu take high risk/high reward shots and moves.  But when the Spurs coundn't buy a basket I wondered where Manu was......I expect a little bit of a choke job from TD and TP but not from Manu.  Dumb yes, choke no when it comes to Manu.

He played with a lot of energy and I am not sure why they went away from him.  Lurker?  Any ideas?  Only one I could think of is he hasn't looked 100% over the last month since he's still trying to get back into the swing of things.

I don't really see any of the Spurs as chokers (except Timmy at the line heh) to be honest.  They play very well under pressure.

[WayOutWest]

I don't really see any of the Spurs as chokers (except Timmy at the line heh) to be honest.  They play very well under pressure.

Not in the playoffs, against the Lakers in particular.  TP outside shot seems to disappear in crunch time and TD at the FT line is a known issue.  There is a reason Manu is their closer or last possesion guy.  Manu may not be as good as TD or TP but what he lacks in ability he makes up with heart.  He's almost crazy in that he takes, and makes, shots he has no buisness even attempting.  How many guys will go behind the back with their dribble to get an open shot?  Guys like Kobe or LeBron dont' have to do things like that because they can jump over people but Manu is not that athletic so he has to make some of those crazy moves out of necesity (sic?).

[westkoast]

I don't really see any of the Spurs as chokers (except Timmy at the line heh) to be honest.  They play very well under pressure.

Not in the playoffs, against the Lakers in particular.  TP outside shot seems to disappear in crunch time and TD at the FT line is a known issue.  There is a reason Manu is their closer or last possesion guy.  Manu may not be as good as TD or TP but what he lacks in ability he makes up with heart.  He's almost crazy in that he takes, and makes, shots he has no buisness even attempting.  How many guys will go behind the back with their dribble to get an open shot?  Guys like Kobe or LeBron dont' have to do things like that because they can jump over people but Manu is not that athletic so he has to make some of those crazy moves out of necesity (sic?).

I think at some point you have to give credit to the Lakers for playing better than they do in those instances.  Although that one milk money series might be an exception to that.  I would agree they looked like they cracked under pressure.  Other than that series I think they play very very well under pressure.  Very disciplined team in that regard.

You have to take them to make em right?