Author Topic: Will the REAL "big three" please stand up.  (Read 8857 times)

Offline SPURSX3

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Re: Will the REAL "big three" please stand up.
« Reply #15 on: January 09, 2009, 10:37:43 AM »

And we don't even need to talk about Tony Parker, because - and I've said it many, many times before - he's incredibly overrated.  He doesn't even belong in this discussion.

I'm going to go with the Celtics "big 3" as the better, simply because, in my eyes, the Celtics 3 beats the Spurs 2.



 :o  ***gasp***  :o
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Offline westkoast

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Re: Will the REAL "big three" please stand up.
« Reply #16 on: January 09, 2009, 10:57:17 AM »
This is actually a tough comparison.

I agree with the point about Duncan being better than Garnett, and the two of them being better than all the rest.

My problem is who to place next.  Ginobilli is the best defender of them all, and the best ball-handler.  Allen is the best pure shooter, and definitely the one I'd want at the free throw line.  Pierce is the best athlete.  I could make a legit argument for taking any of them third.

And we don't even need to talk about Tony Parker, because - and I've said it many, many times before - he's incredibly overrated.  He doesn't even belong in this discussion.

I'm going to go with the Celtics "big 3" as the better, simply because, in my eyes, the Celtics 3 beats the Spurs 2.


I am curious on why you feel he is so overrated.  No shot or anything.  Just want to hear your take.
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Offline WayOutWest

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Re: Will the REAL "big three" please stand up.
« Reply #17 on: January 09, 2009, 11:02:05 AM »
And we don't even need to talk about Tony Parker, because - and I've said it many, many times before - he's incredibly overrated.  He doesn't even belong in this discussion.

I agree that TP is overrated but I think in the system he's in he's incredibly effective.  IMO the system a guy plays can be a huge factor on a players game.  IMO TP is one of the more effective PG's in the league, IMO top 10 maybe even top 5.  That reminds me....who the hell is Steve Nash?  In all of NBA history, has there EVER been a guy who blossomed into a superstar that late in his career?  IMO it had to do with the system and players that surrounded him as much as it had to do with Nash himself.  I think TP would have a bunch of problems in certain systems, no way he could do well in the same enviroment that a Davis/CP/Nash thrive in but I think TP would do just fine in Utah and LA, so he's not totally useless.
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Offline westkoast

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Re: Will the REAL "big three" please stand up.
« Reply #18 on: January 09, 2009, 11:08:30 AM »
And we don't even need to talk about Tony Parker, because - and I've said it many, many times before - he's incredibly overrated.  He doesn't even belong in this discussion.

I agree that TP is overrated but I think in the system he's in he's incredibly effective.  IMO the system a guy plays can be a huge factor on a players game.  IMO TP is one of the more effective PG's in the league, IMO top 10 maybe even top 5.  That reminds me....who the hell is Steve Nash?  In all of NBA history, has there EVER been a guy who blossomed into a superstar that late in his career?  IMO it had to do with the system and players that surrounded him as much as it had to do with Nash himself.  I think TP would have a bunch of problems in certain systems, no way he could do well in the same enviroment that a Davis/CP/Nash thrive in but I think TP would do just fine in Utah and LA, so he's not totally useless.

That is why I don't feel he's overrated.  In fact if you asked average NBA fans who the best PGs in the league are I bet Tony Parker doesn't even make a lot of peoples list.  In fact I'd assume Rondo would probably be picked by most over TP.

The Spurs have been a very successful team since he got there.  His game has improved and with out him I don't think they win championships.  Obviously he is not the main cog.  Some may argue he might even be third (which I completely disagree with based on their last championship run) on the Spurs list. 

I guess if the argument is you could plug a number of point guards into that system and get similar results it could be made.  Don't know if I agree.  Most of the PGs in this league are not very good defenders.
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Offline Joe Vancil

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Re: Will the REAL "big three" please stand up.
« Reply #19 on: January 09, 2009, 11:17:51 AM »
And I think Parker would be next to useless in LA or Utah as well.  LA's point guards need to be able to shoot from long, and Utah's point guards have to be able to pass.

Parker is a passable - but not outstanding - defender.  Where he has had his success is in getting into the lane and getting off his shot - and not because he's insanely fast (although he's definitely fast) or insanely strong (although he can take a hit).  I feel that his success is that given the choice of stopping Parker or stopping Duncan, most would choose to stop Duncan, and as a result, Parker's numbers are inflated.

Parker's outside shot has started to come around, but I don't think you'd want him pulling up for a 20-footer if the championship is on the line.

As a passer, Parker is insanely deficient.  He can make the easy pass and the obvious pass, and that's about it.  In the end game, San An generally puts the ball in Ginobilli's hands - not just because he's a better shooter, better driver, and better scorer, but also because he's a better passer.

Compare that to most of the other top-level point guards.  You don't hurt yourself by asking them to make a difficult pass, or to set another player up.  With Parker, you do.

If, when Duncan finally retires, Parker continues his production, I may have to eat my words.  But as it stands today, I find Parker a very limited player.  It amazes me that he's had ANY success, much less the success he's had.
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Offline SPURSX3

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Re: Will the REAL "big three" please stand up.
« Reply #20 on: January 09, 2009, 11:21:43 AM »

That is why I don't feel he's overrated.  In fact if you asked average NBA fans who the best PGs in the league are I bet Tony Parker doesn't even make a lot of peoples list.  In fact I'd assume Rondo would probably be picked by most over TP.


 :o ***GASP***  :o

Rondo over TP?  Now there is a point guard dependant on a system.  ::)
On the set of Walker Texas Ranger Chuck Norris brought a dying lamb back to life by nuzzling it with his beard. As the onlookers gathered, the lamb sprang to life. Chuck Norris then roundhouse kicked it, killing it instantly. The lesson? The good Chuck giveth, and the good Chuck, he taketh away.

Offline SPURSX3

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Re: Will the REAL "big three" please stand up.
« Reply #21 on: January 09, 2009, 11:39:17 AM »
And I think Parker would be next to useless in LA or Utah as well.  LA's point guards need to be able to shoot from long, and Utah's point guards have to be able to pass.

Parker is a passable - but not outstanding - defender.  Where he has had his success is in getting into the lane and getting off his shot - and not because he's insanely fast (although he's definitely fast) or insanely strong (although he can take a hit).  I feel that his success is that given the choice of stopping Parker or stopping Duncan, most would choose to stop Duncan, and as a result, Parker's numbers are inflated.

Parker's outside shot has started to come around, but I don't think you'd want him pulling up for a 20-footer if the championship is on the line.

As a passer, Parker is insanely deficient.  He can make the easy pass and the obvious pass, and that's about it.  In the end game, San An generally puts the ball in Ginobilli's hands - not just because he's a better shooter, better driver, and better scorer, but also because he's a better passer.

Compare that to most of the other top-level point guards.  You don't hurt yourself by asking them to make a difficult pass, or to set another player up.  With Parker, you do.

If, when Duncan finally retires, Parker continues his production, I may have to eat my words.  But as it stands today, I find Parker a very limited player.  It amazes me that he's had ANY success, much less the success he's had.

Wow, considering how many times the Spurs tried to get a decent back up for him to run the show and they have failed to even come close to running our team as well - even with Manu coming off the bench - Tony's not the best, I agree with that, but he is not the scrub you make him sound like.  I would hev to say he is probably a top 5 guard.  Not really favoring him, If you have ever run into him somewhere you would know how much of a snob he is.  He is french and married to Eva after all... :-\
On the set of Walker Texas Ranger Chuck Norris brought a dying lamb back to life by nuzzling it with his beard. As the onlookers gathered, the lamb sprang to life. Chuck Norris then roundhouse kicked it, killing it instantly. The lesson? The good Chuck giveth, and the good Chuck, he taketh away.

Offline WayOutWest

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Re: Will the REAL "big three" please stand up.
« Reply #22 on: January 09, 2009, 11:56:33 AM »
Wow, considering how many times the Spurs tried to get a decent back up for him to run the show and they have failed to even come close to running our team as well - even with Manu coming off the bench - Tony's not the best, I agree with that, but he is not the scrub you make him sound like.  I would hev to say he is probably a top 5 guard.  Not really favoring him, If you have ever run into him somewhere you would know how much of a snob he is.  He is french and married to Eva after all... :-\

I agree he COULD be top 5, so name them....

1. CP3
2. DWill
3. Billups
4. Steve Nash
5. Davis (crappy year and all)
6. Roy (is he a PG?)
7. Devin harris
8. O.J. Mayo (yea I said it!)
9. Parker

So he comes in at #9 but if you put Wade and Joe Johson as PG's then I would take them ahead of TP as well.
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Offline jn

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Re: Will the REAL "big three" please stand up.
« Reply #23 on: January 09, 2009, 12:11:24 PM »
OJ MAYO?!??  WOW, your post actually made my eyballs bleed.  Barely into his career and he already has teammates bitching about his shoot first mentality. [/color]
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Offline SPURSX3

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Re: Will the REAL "big three" please stand up.
« Reply #24 on: January 09, 2009, 12:13:36 PM »
1. CP3
2. DWill
3. Nash
4. Parker
5. Billups


Waivering on replacing someone with Harris.  

On the set of Walker Texas Ranger Chuck Norris brought a dying lamb back to life by nuzzling it with his beard. As the onlookers gathered, the lamb sprang to life. Chuck Norris then roundhouse kicked it, killing it instantly. The lesson? The good Chuck giveth, and the good Chuck, he taketh away.

Offline SPURSX3

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Re: Will the REAL "big three" please stand up.
« Reply #25 on: January 09, 2009, 12:14:31 PM »
OJ MAYO?!??  WOW, your post actually made my eyballs bleed.  Barely into his career and he already has teammates bitching about his shoot first mentality. [/color]

lol
On the set of Walker Texas Ranger Chuck Norris brought a dying lamb back to life by nuzzling it with his beard. As the onlookers gathered, the lamb sprang to life. Chuck Norris then roundhouse kicked it, killing it instantly. The lesson? The good Chuck giveth, and the good Chuck, he taketh away.

Offline WayOutWest

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Re: Will the REAL "big three" please stand up.
« Reply #26 on: January 09, 2009, 12:26:49 PM »
OJ MAYO?!??  WOW, your post actually made my eyballs bleed.  Barely into his career and he already has teammates bitching about his shoot first mentality. [/color]

I'm not one of his team mates so I'm blinded by his offensive game.  :D  Mayo is probably one of those guys that's a PG in name only...uh...not going to start that one-sided debate again.  ;)
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Offline westkoast

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Re: Will the REAL "big three" please stand up.
« Reply #27 on: January 09, 2009, 12:28:35 PM »


Parker's outside shot has started to come around, but I don't think you'd want him pulling up for a 20-footer if the championship is on the line.


That's exactly how they were torching teams in their last playoff run.  If it wasn't for Tony's jumper (and teams daring him to shoot it) they might not have the teams they did on the way to the championship.

As far as who you want to take a last second shot...I'd feel safer with Manu in that spot if I was a Spurs fan but at the same time I mean they've ran plays for Duncan to win games so...
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Offline westkoast

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Re: Will the REAL "big three" please stand up.
« Reply #28 on: January 09, 2009, 12:30:09 PM »

That is why I don't feel he's overrated.  In fact if you asked average NBA fans who the best PGs in the league are I bet Tony Parker doesn't even make a lot of peoples list.  In fact I'd assume Rondo would probably be picked by most over TP.


 :o ***GASP***  :o

Rondo over TP?  Now there is a point guard dependant on a system.  ::)

I disagree with it.  My point was that how can he be overrated when most NBA fans don't rate him that high.  Guys like Rondo, Baron Davis, D-Will, CP3, etc all would be picked over Parker by average NBA fans.
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Offline WayOutWest

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Re: Will the REAL "big three" please stand up.
« Reply #29 on: January 09, 2009, 12:31:16 PM »

That is why I don't feel he's overrated.  In fact if you asked average NBA fans who the best PGs in the league are I bet Tony Parker doesn't even make a lot of peoples list.  In fact I'd assume Rondo would probably be picked by most over TP.



 :o ***GASP***  :o

Rondo over TP?  Now there is a point guard dependant on a system.  ::)

I disagree with it.  My point was that how can he be overrated when most NBA fans don't rate him that high.  Guys like Rondo, Baron Davis, D-Will, CP3, etc all would be picked over Parker by average NBA fans.

All but Rondo SHOULD be picked ahead of TP.  8)
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"Our story is real history"
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"And if not for that white greed"
"It would've endured"

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