Marreese Minutes

[RickyPryor]

I think I'm on the fence with this Speights Playing Time issue.

I mean, when I first look at it my inclination is to say "why is Marreese at only 14.6 MPG?  ESPECIALLY when we've no Brand, Sam has reverted back to awful seasons of past (maybe worse), Young isn't a prototypical 4, plus your back-up center and Donyell are both 55 years of age."

I mean those are good arguments, right?  This team isn't exactly stacked in the frontcourt.

(Let me point out now that I'm not saying these guys named - who are healthy - don't each need to play their minutes; they do...  I'm just saying one would THINK that Speights would have been playing too MANY minutes, given the situation.  But he certainly isn't.)

But is he not playing enough now?  I mean in his last 5 games he's played 20 MPG. His minutes are going up, aren't they?  Heck, he played more than 31 minutes recently against the Celtics.

I dunno.

I think sometimes we fans get a little too excited by the young guys.  (I for one can't believe DeSean Jackson lasted a whole season, frankly.)

Speights only played 2 years in college; and it took until year two to get UP to 22 minutes or so a game.  Only played about 34 games in each of those two seasons.  Not even HALF what we need him to play this year.

82 games is too long to worry about MPG for rookies, I think.

Should he play more than Mayo?  Rose?  Rudy Fernandez (27.6)?  Westbrook (30)?  I don't think so.  Most of the top 10 rookies are guards, by the way.  There are, in fact, very few bigs on the Top Rookies list.  I say let's just be happy he's a Sixer and likely headed for vast improvement (and expanded minutes) every 10-15 games or so.

After all, he's a 16th pick and most would agree he's performing at a top-10 pace.

[Skates]

He is going to be a real offensive force, that is abundantly clear.  He needs minutes even if he makes mistakes, however, if the coach sits him for lack of effort on defense and/or rebounding or ebcause he is not listening to the coaches then I support them.  If they bench him in favor of alleged veteran savvy, i damn them all to hell (or the LA Clippers, whichever is worse).

[tk76-]

At very least he should get consistent minutes.  I would say 17-25 and increase if he performs consistently.  

You could argue less minutes if his poor defense/rebounding is harming the team, but either way make sure his minutes don't get yo-yo's.  Vets can adapt to that, but it slows the development of rookies and can get in their heads.

[RickyPryor]

You could argue less minutes if his poor defense/rebounding is harming the team, but either way make sure his minutes don't get yo-yo's.  Vets can adapt to that, but it slows the development of rookies and can get in their heads.

Agreed. 

I'm not sure tonight's match-ups support a big Marreese Minutes night, by the way.

Go Young.

[rickortreat]

The problem is one of need, need for the Sixers to win.

We have no low-post game.  That is a fact.  We have exactly one player capable of playing offense in the low-post and his name is Marreese Speights.

The Sixers can't win because they can't score reliably in a half-court set. Adding an interior post-game to their slashers and running game will help them with scoring when they need to, and enable them to control the pace of the game by insuring high-quality possessions.

Now that's a lot to ask of any rookie, to come in and be a team's entire low post game, with virtually no help from anyone with size.  I would say that the only thing you can do is hope he can grow into the position.

When you realize that the Sixers only chance of making the playoffs this year depends on them developing a low-post offense, and only if they develop a half-court offense will they ever be able to compete again in the NBA, THERE's NO CHOICE BUT TO PLAY SPEIGHTS IF YOU WANT THE SIXERS TO WIN!!!!!

There is no argument to the contrary, unless Speights demonstrates than he can't do it.  On offense he looks incredibly good. On defense, he has a lot of work to do which is understandable given his experience. But unless you can see that he is tired or not giving you good effort on every possession, then he has to be playing and because of the circumstances for the Sixers, needs to be playing starter-type minutes.

I think the Sixers can be an effective team with the players they still have with only a few changes necessary.  Obviously Brand coming back will help, but only if the Sixers have a half-court game to integrate him into. It seems that the Sixers themselves need more practice executing in a half-court
in order to compete, one where they can shoot at or over 50% like the better teams in the league do.

With all the scorers on this team, it makes no sense to be afraid of other team's shooting. It makes more sense to make other teams be afraid of the Sixers trying to score. That's not going to happen without an interior game.  And an interior game isn't happening without Speights.

Finally, Dalembert has become such a liability on offense that the less he plays the better.  You can't keep Sam off the floor against the Tall teams in the league because we need the rebounding.  At least you can give some of those minutes to Speights and possibly give up some boards and still come out ahead because of his scoring.

Every time he plays, the team seems to win, that is they score more than their opponents during the time he is in the game. Every time Sam plays we seem to loose. To me it's a no-brainer. Play the Kid!

[RickyPryor]

When you realize that the Sixers only chance of making the playoffs this year depends on them developing a low-post offense, and only if they develop a half-court offense will they ever be able to compete again in the NBA, THERE's NO CHOICE BUT TO PLAY SPEIGHTS IF YOU WANT THE SIXERS TO WIN!!!!!

I can see you are very passionate.

Marreese is playing 20 minutes a game lately.  (And the Sixers are NOT winning.)  Realistically, how many more minutes can we expect him to play?  2?  3?  6?  Any more isn't happening, nor should it.

You are pinning your hopes to a kid who has played a total of 30 games in the NBA.  And you are expecting that his inside game (which is nice) is the golden ticket.  Give Marreese the ball down low and watch puppies and gold coins fall from the sky!

To go far we need to overachieve night in and night out.  And that's in every facet: from rebounding (it's always rebounding), to defense (which he cannot play), to high percentage choices (which we do not make), to gutsy 4th quarter performances (which we've never delivered).



It'll take more than Marreese's low post game.





Alot more.

There is no argument to the contrary,
Every time he plays, the team seems to win, that is they score more than their opponents during the time he is in the game.

I beg to differ.  There IS an argument to the contrary. 

Just check the result from the Celtic game during which he played 31 minutes.

[tk76-]

  Give Marreese the ball down low and watch puppies and gold coins fall from the sky!

Sounds like it would also be the answer to their attendance woes.  But I hope the puppies will be O.K.

[Skates]

Several players on this team have nascent post games that bear further development and exploitation over time.  Speights, Young and Iguodala all have low post potential that needs to be further tapped.  Iggy can post up smaller players when he plays SG and his passing skills are a plus for post play.  Thad has a unique, truly uncanny ability to get good shots off around the basket and has passed decently out of the post the few times he has had the opportunity.  Speights outside game is more advanced than his post game, but he has the skills and athleticism to excel at both.  He is likewise a very good and instictive passer out of the post and has very soft hands to catch entry passes.  None is close to a finished product yet.  Speights is not going to become a low post machine any time soon, but he is already pretty good on offense and 24-30 mpg is not unreasonable for him if he makes efforts to improve his defense and defensive board work.  I have no idea if he is good with puppies, but he will make a lot of coin down the road.

[rickortreat]

When you realize that the Sixers only chance of making the playoffs this year depends on them developing a low-post offense, and only if they develop a half-court offense will they ever be able to compete again in the NBA, THERE's NO CHOICE BUT TO PLAY SPEIGHTS IF YOU WANT THE SIXERS TO WIN!!!!!

I can see you are very passionate.

Marreese is playing 20 minutes a game lately.  (And the Sixers are NOT winning.)  Realistically, how many more minutes can we expect him to play?  2?  3?  6?  Any more isn't happening, nor should it.

You are pinning your hopes to a kid who has played a total of 30 games in the NBA.  And you are expecting that his inside game (which is nice) is the golden ticket.  Give Marreese the ball down low and watch puppies and gold coins fall from the sky!

To go far we need to overachieve night in and night out.  And that's in every facet: from rebounding (it's always rebounding), to defense (which he cannot play), to high percentage choices (which we do not make), to gutsy 4th quarter performances (which we've never delivered).



It'll take more than Marreese's low post game.





Alot more.

There is no argument to the contrary,
Every time he plays, the team seems to win, that is they score more than their opponents during the time he is in the game.

I beg to differ.  There IS an argument to the contrary. 

Just check the result from the Celtic game during which he played 31 minutes.

Well there are arguments, just not good ones.  You can't expect Speights to suddenly turn the Sixers into world beaters overnight, or make up entirely for their faults.   The team is ranked 4th in the NBA in rebounding so that isn't one of their problems. What is, is interior scoring. Who else is going to score inside?  Yes, there are other players with potential post games, but the other team won't give them those shots in game ending situations.  There's no one you can put on Marreese who's so big that he can't get a shot off, which is why everyone considers a big man so valuable.

Speights has the highest PER rank of any Sixers player.  He has a higher scoring average than Dalembert even though Sam averages twice as many minutes!  Logically a team should play it's better players more minutes than their poorer performing peers.

I would suggest that you play Speights as many minutes as he can handle while maintaining a higher PER than anyone else on the team, and in that way maximize what he can bring to it. If he is causing the team to win, by being out on the floor, he's not hurting them!  He may get fewer rebounds, but that's because he didn't miss making the shot, like Sam often does!

He may or may not make the Sixers winners, but since the alternative is to not play him, there's no advantage in not trying. Besides, it's important to see what the Sixers can do utilizing the talent they do have, or they won't know which needs to draft for.  If he's part of the answer to the Sixers inside scoring needs, that's important for the team to realize.

[tk76-]

I don't think anyone here wants to see Speights nailed to the bench.  It is one of those riddles that were the hallmark of Mo's rotations.

[RickyPryor]

You can't expect Speights to suddenly turn the Sixers into world beaters overnight, or make up entirely for their faults.

...which is exactly what I'm suggesting you not do. 

The team is ranked 4th in the NBA in rebounding so that isn't one of their problems. What is, is interior scoring. Who else is going to score inside? 

1.  I didn't say rebounding was a problem.  I said that rebounding is the most important aspects of the game, and we need to overachieve in that regard every night.  Whether we do now or not.

2.  Just because we're week inside doesn't mean our best low post threat is good enough to make the difference.  He might be the best we have, is all.

Logically a team should play it's better players more minutes than their poorer performing peers.

Depends what you mean by "better".  Donyell can hit the three...is he "better" than Brand?  Willie can defend better than Miller...is he a "better" player?  Evans averages more rebounds per game than does Speights.  In less minutes.  Is he "better"?

I would suggest that you play Speights as many minutes as he can handle .

Maybe they already are playing him as many minutes as he "can handle".  How do we know differently?  He's ALREADY played half the number of total minutes as he did in his most recent - full - NCAA season.

If he is causing the team to win, by being out on the floor, he's not hurting them! 

Is he?  Is he "causing the team to win"?  First of all - please explain, exactly, what you mean by that.

He may get fewer rebounds, but that's because he didn't miss making the shot, like Sam often does!

So, then, Sam pulls down more boards...due, solely, to his missing shots in the first place?  The difference in their rebounding average comes down to Sam grabbing his OWN misses?  Is that what you are saying?



Look, would I like to see more Speights?  Sure...he's a nice player.  But he's got TONS to learn and he's a rookie, not used to playing in - remotely - this long of a season.  If he plays more, it'll be about three minutes more a game, max.  So, sure, why not.

I don't believe it'll make THAT big of a positive difference, truth be told.  But I also believe you run the risk of having the opposite effect you seek.  If he wears down...if he becomes overwhelmed during situations to the point of losing his confidence (one of his strengths, I might add) - I think you'll have gained nothing.

[Skates]

Looks like Speights played decent mnutes tonight in what appears to have been a good game.  Of course, we had Phillies highlights on CSN instead of the Sixers, so I didn't see a damn bit of it.  Even when they do well in a game this organization frustrates me.  Grrrr!

[tk76-]

The Speights Question

About 80 minutes before tonight's game against the San Antonio Spurs, 76ers head coach Tony DiLeo watched as rookie Marreese Speights shot around. Once Speights finished, DiLeo called over Speights and the two had a quick chat.

The conversation seemed appropriate considering Speights didn't play last night against the Dallas Mavericks. Speights had been steadily contributing. A few minutes later, I spoke with DiLeo who said the reason Speights didn't play was simple: He didn't see a good spot to put him in the game. Thad Young was playing well on Dirk Nowitzki (until the fourth quarter, as we all remember).

DiLeo said he wanted to have a short conversation with Speights to emphasize that the DNP (did not play) had nothing to do with how Speights' had been producing. It was a smart move on DiLeo's part, because occasionally rookies can get buried by games like that. With DiLeo taking the time to talk to Speights, it likely avoids any hangover from the DNP.

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/deep-sixer/The_Speights_Question.html

So unless DiLeo was blowing smoke to cover a secret punishment benching of Speights (which is possible) then Speights sat so that DiLeo could go for a win.  Can't say I agree with that logic at all.

I also think that even if Speights matches up poorly with the Mavs frontcourt (which is debatable) it would help him more to get exposed to that level of competition then to try and learn from the bench.  What exactly are they protecting him from?  Its not like his confidence would be shattered if Dirk schooled him a couple of times.  I'm not saying put him on Dirk for 20 min, but a few possession could help his progress so that next year he won't be facing him for the first time.

Sometimes you have to be willing to give up a few points in order to help the Sixers down the road- and the sooner Speights is really ready to start next to Brand the sooner this team will be competitive.

[RickyPryor]

The part you did not highlight, however, was this:

It was a smart move on DiLeo's part, because occasionally rookies can get buried by games like that. With DiLeo taking the time to talk to Speights, it likely avoids any hangover from the DNP.

Maybe Tony thought better than to say, "hey - you sucked two games in a row; you sit".  Let Marreese figure out the real reason.

After all...anyone would be smart enough to figure out that - if the coach thinks you're playing well enough to help the team win...you'll play.

Marreese had a couple nights to contemplate how he could become more valuable.


In any event, I really don't believe this is a big deal at all.  It was two games.  He's back playing.  Now I hope Tony can figure out our REAL issue:  How to win games we are in control of.  We should have won THREE of those games and lacked the leadership (and friggin ballhandling skills) to win them.

We need a veteran who knows how to win.  Who wants (deserves) the ball in the 4th.  And makes good decisions.  We don't have that guy...and all the other good teams do.

For me it's as simple as that.

[tk76-]

We need a veteran who knows how to win.  Who wants (deserves) the ball in the 4th.  And makes good decisions.  We don't have that guy...and all the other good teams do.

For me it's as simple as that.

It would be great to have that type of vet finisher, but I would not give up on the teams young core to get them (unless by 'vet' you mean someone 27.)  Obviously, if you can swap one of the current vets in a trade that uprades this teams shooting then I'm all for it. 

But, I think the team has promising closers, but those payers are still too young to be relied upon to always come through.  I would rather develop Thad, Lou and Speights as closers.  They all have come up with some big plays down the stretch recently.  Unfortunately, there will be a lot of groing pains over the next year.  They have also made some mistakes, but I'd rather see them develop then make trades to make this team a somewhat good, more veteran squad.

I hope Brand is still near the top of his game in 2-3 years, because that is when playing these 22 and under players will really pay off.