Eastern Division W-L records

[westkoast]

Fine, fine...let me break the whole thing down....<sigh>.

Team           Record       Atl Record   Pac Record  "in division"  Adjusted Record
Boston         29-7          6-1            2-2                8-3             21-4
New Jersey   17-18        3-2             4-3               7-5             10-13
Philadelphia   14-20        2-4             4-1               6-5             8-15
Toronto        14-21        2-5             3-2               5-7             9-14
New York      13-20        2-3             2-2               4-5             9-15

LAL              27-6          5-0            7-1               12-1            15-5
Phoenix        19-12         2-1            2-2                4-3             15-9
Golden St.     10-26        3-4             1-2               4-6             6-20
LAC              8-26          0-4            0-6               0-10            8-16
Sac              8-28          0-6            4-3               4-9              4-19

So, it breaks down as follows:

If you believe the best indicator is how well these teams do HEAD TO HEAD, the standings break down as:

Los Angeles     12    1   .923       -
Boston             8     3   .727      3
New Jersey       7     5   .583      4.5
Phoenix            4     3   .571      5
Philadelphia       6     5   .545      5
New York          4     5   .444      6
Toronto            5     7   .417      6.5
Gold. St.           4     6   .400      6.5
Sac.                4     9    .308      8
LAC                 0    10    .000     10.5

What you see in this is that the top teams are cannibalizing the bottom teams.  So how does this stack up with what they've done against the REST of the league?

Boston           21     4     .840   - 
LA Lakers       15     5     .750   3.5
Phoenix          15     9     .625   5.5
New Jersey     10    13    .435   10
Toronto          9     14    .391   11
New York        9     15    .375   11.5
Philadelphia     8     15    .347    12
LA Clippers      8     16    .333    12.5
Golden St.      6      20   .231     15.5
Sacramento    4      19   .174     16

Boston is better against the rest of the league than against the Atlantic/Pacific.

The Lakers success has come by cannibalizing the Atlantic/Pacific.

Phoenix is doing better against teh rest of the league than against Atlantic/Pacific - AND HAVE PLAYED THE FEWEST GAMES AGAINST ATLANTIC/PACIFIC.  In other words, they've got a bunch of games left against the lesser players.  They're better than their current record against Atlantic/Pacific.

New Jersey has it's current record because it has cannibalized its own "division" (meaning Atlantic/Pacific).  Their schedule looks to get TOUGHER from here on out - with a losing record, and 4.5 games behind Phoenix.  In other words, they're irrelevant.

Toronto, who is only a game behind New Jersey, has struggled within its own division.  In other words, they're losing games that one would think they should win.  That being the case, this may be the 2nd best team in the Atlantic - which is a lot closer to what most of us thought of them in preseason.  Still, they are reaping some benefit from cannibalization.

New York is also gaining benefit from cannibalizing the division.  They still have some room to cannibalize a bit more.  Doesn't make them relevant, though.

Philadelphia - another team gaining benefit from cannibalizing.

The Clippers are the team who is being eaten up by the division.  They're doing NOTHING in division play.  Yet looking at how they've done against everyone else, they're closer to New Jersey than New Jersey is to Phoenix. 

We now get to the worst of the worst - Golden State and Sacramento.  If there's a break between Phoenix and New Jersey, there's also a break between the Clippers and Golden State.

Golden State has gained some benefit from cannibalizing its division.  Yet even that keeps it at significant distance from even graduating to AWFUL.

Sacramento needs to just stick to playing in it's division.  Apparently, they're the only people they can beat.

So - AGAIN - you come back to three teams - Boston, LA Lakers, and Phoenix.  The "success" of the rest of the Atlantic/Pacific teams comes from cannibalizing the rest of the division.  NJ, NY, Phil, and Tor are better than GS, LAC, and Sac - and GS and Sac are in a lower class than the rest of the group.  So it gets back to the question - is two relevant teams, one irrelevant team, and two hopeless teams a better division than one relevant team, and four irrelevant teams?  And again, my answer is YES.

I have to give the nod to the Pacific as being the better division.

Reality has now left the building.

[WayOutWest]

Which point.  The one i made that Jersey is 1-1 vs Phx?
Or that Jersey is 6-5 (now 7-5) vs the Pacific?

Laker Math says otherwise.  *Proof*.

Sorry - but now you're doing un-REALITY math.  New Jersey CANNOT be 7-5 against the Pacific, since they only play 10 games against the Pacific.

                                                                            
                                                                                            
                                                                                             
                                                                                  
                                                                                         
                                                                                     
                                                                              
   

[Reality]

If you believe the best indicator is how well these teams do HEAD TO HEAD, the standings break down as:

Los Angeles     12    1   .923       -
Boston             8     3   .727      3
New Jersey       7     5   .583      4.5
Phoenix            4     3   .571      5
Philadelphia       6     5   .545      5
New York          4     5   .444      6
Toronto            5     7   .417      6.5
Gold. St.           4     6   .400      6.5
Sac.                4     9    .308      8
LAC                 0    10    .000     10.5

So - AGAIN - you come back to three teams - Boston, LA Lakers, and Phoenix.  The "success" of the rest of the Atlantic/Pacific teams comes from cannibalizing the rest of the division.  NJ, NY, Phil, and Tor are better than GS, LAC, and Sac - and GS and Sac are in a lower class than the rest of the group.  So it gets back to the question - is two relevant teams, one irrelevant team, and two hopeless teams a better division than one relevant team, and four irrelevant teams?  And again, my answer is YES.

I have to give the nod to the Pacific as being the better division.

Thanks for validating my points.
weakoast, i would put NJ under Phx in a series at about 40/60.  Phx is not that much better.
WoW may have had enough years now (a decade?) to explain to you the chances of a 40% suck out.

[westkoast]

If you believe the best indicator is how well these teams do HEAD TO HEAD, the standings break down as:

Los Angeles     12    1   .923       -
Boston             8     3   .727      3
New Jersey       7     5   .583      4.5
Phoenix            4     3   .571      5
Philadelphia       6     5   .545      5
New York          4     5   .444      6
Toronto            5     7   .417      6.5
Gold. St.           4     6   .400      6.5
Sac.                4     9    .308      8
LAC                 0    10    .000     10.5

So - AGAIN - you come back to three teams - Boston, LA Lakers, and Phoenix.  The "success" of the rest of the Atlantic/Pacific teams comes from cannibalizing the rest of the division.  NJ, NY, Phil, and Tor are better than GS, LAC, and Sac - and GS and Sac are in a lower class than the rest of the group.  So it gets back to the question - is two relevant teams, one irrelevant team, and two hopeless teams a better division than one relevant team, and four irrelevant teams?  And again, my answer is YES.

I have to give the nod to the Pacific as being the better division.

Thanks for validating my points.
weakoast, i would put NJ under Phx in a series at about 40/60.  Phx is not that much better.
WoW may have had enough years now (a decade?) to explain to you the chances of a 40% suck out.

Your stupidity amazes me every day.  Do you read after the bold where he specifically states that the Pacific division is stronger.  Did you even read anything he said?  Or did you just twist one line he said and tried to say he validated your point?

Your point was the Pacific Division was the weakest.  His entire posts says otherwise.  You cannot possibly be this retarded.

[Reality]

^^ My babysitting has its limitations.
I've stated what I've stated re the division and Jersey vs Phoenix.
If you and Joe want to discuss infinitum whether Golden State, the Clippers, and Sacramento are better, have at it. 

[westkoast]

^^^ so does your brain apparently

Sorry - but now you're doing un-REALITY math.  New Jersey CANNOT be 7-5 against the Pacific, since they only play 10 games against the Pacific.

So are you an idiot or a liar?  You can only be one of two in this instance.

[westkoast]

Which point.  The one i made that Jersey is 1-1 vs Phx?
Or that Jersey is 6-5 (now 7-5) vs the Pacific?

Laker Math says otherwise.  *Proof*.

Sorry - but now you're doing un-REALITY math.  New Jersey CANNOT be 7-5 against the Pacific, since they only play 10 games against the Pacific.

                                                                            
                                                                                            
                                                                                             
                                                                                  
                                                                                         
                                                                                     
                                                                              
   

I forgot to ask you before but how long did this take you to do LOL

Oh ya, Reality has magically vanished from the thread.  Didn't see that coming.

[WayOutWest]

I forgot to ask you before but how long did this take you to do LOL

Oh ya, Reality has magically vanished from the thread.  Didn't see that coming.

The "O" and the "W" took a couple of minutes but as you can see I just blasted through the rest of the letters.

Reality vanished from topics in this thread a while ago.  He made such a STUPID comment about height determining position and then got called on it.  He ran like a bee with an itch...err...bee-itch.

[Joe Vancil]

If you believe the best indicator is how well these teams do HEAD TO HEAD, the standings break down as:

Los Angeles     12    1   .923       -
Boston             8     3   .727      3
New Jersey       7     5   .583      4.5
Phoenix            4     3   .571      5
Philadelphia       6     5   .545      5
New York          4     5   .444      6
Toronto            5     7   .417      6.5
Gold. St.           4     6   .400      6.5
Sac.                4     9    .308      8
LAC                 0    10    .000     10.5

So - AGAIN - you come back to three teams - Boston, LA Lakers, and Phoenix.  The "success" of the rest of the Atlantic/Pacific teams comes from cannibalizing the rest of the division.  NJ, NY, Phil, and Tor are better than GS, LAC, and Sac - and GS and Sac are in a lower class than the rest of the group.  So it gets back to the question - is two relevant teams, one irrelevant team, and two hopeless teams a better division than one relevant team, and four irrelevant teams?  And again, my answer is YES.

I have to give the nod to the Pacific as being the better division.

Thanks for validating my points.
weakoast, i would put NJ under Phx in a series at about 40/60.  Phx is not that much better.
WoW may have had enough years now (a decade?) to explain to you the chances of a 40% suck out.

Actually, Reality, the numbers say that against the league as a whole - instead of just against its two worst divisions - New Jersey is closer to the Clippers than it is to Phoenix.  And given the fact that Phoenix has had little chance to cannibalize the patsies of the Atlantic so far, I think that discrepancy will grow.

New Jersey is relevant only because it is playing in a conference where a losing record still can get you into the playoffs.

[westkoast]

If you believe the best indicator is how well these teams do HEAD TO HEAD, the standings break down as:

Los Angeles     12    1   .923       -
Boston             8     3   .727      3
New Jersey       7     5   .583      4.5
Phoenix            4     3   .571      5
Philadelphia       6     5   .545      5
New York          4     5   .444      6
Toronto            5     7   .417      6.5
Gold. St.           4     6   .400      6.5
Sac.                4     9    .308      8
LAC                 0    10    .000     10.5

So - AGAIN - you come back to three teams - Boston, LA Lakers, and Phoenix.  The "success" of the rest of the Atlantic/Pacific teams comes from cannibalizing the rest of the division.  NJ, NY, Phil, and Tor are better than GS, LAC, and Sac - and GS and Sac are in a lower class than the rest of the group.  So it gets back to the question - is two relevant teams, one irrelevant team, and two hopeless teams a better division than one relevant team, and four irrelevant teams?  And again, my answer is YES.

I have to give the nod to the Pacific as being the better division.

Thanks for validating my points.
weakoast, i would put NJ under Phx in a series at about 40/60.  Phx is not that much better.
WoW may have had enough years now (a decade?) to explain to you the chances of a 40% suck out.

Actually, Reality, the numbers say that against the league as a whole - instead of just against its two worst divisions - New Jersey is closer to the Clippers than it is to Phoenix.  And given the fact that Phoenix has had little chance to cannibalize the patsies of the Atlantic so far, I think that discrepancy will grow.

New Jersey is relevant only because it is playing in a conference where a losing record still can get you into the playoffs.

He's never going to read this LOL.

[WayOutWest]

If you believe the best indicator is how well these teams do HEAD TO HEAD, the standings break down as:

Los Angeles     12    1   .923       -
Boston             8     3   .727      3
New Jersey       7     5   .583      4.5
Phoenix            4     3   .571      5
Philadelphia       6     5   .545      5
New York          4     5   .444      6
Toronto            5     7   .417      6.5
Gold. St.           4     6   .400      6.5
Sac.                4     9    .308      8
LAC                 0    10    .000     10.5

So - AGAIN - you come back to three teams - Boston, LA Lakers, and Phoenix.  The "success" of the rest of the Atlantic/Pacific teams comes from cannibalizing the rest of the division.  NJ, NY, Phil, and Tor are better than GS, LAC, and Sac - and GS and Sac are in a lower class than the rest of the group.  So it gets back to the question - is two relevant teams, one irrelevant team, and two hopeless teams a better division than one relevant team, and four irrelevant teams?  And again, my answer is YES.

I have to give the nod to the Pacific as being the better division.

Thanks for validating my points.
weakoast, i would put NJ under Phx in a series at about 40/60.  Phx is not that much better.
WoW may have had enough years now (a decade?) to explain to you the chances of a 40% suck out.

Actually, Reality, the numbers say that against the league as a whole - instead of just against its two worst divisions - New Jersey is closer to the Clippers than it is to Phoenix.  And given the fact that Phoenix has had little chance to cannibalize the patsies of the Atlantic so far, I think that discrepancy will grow.

New Jersey is relevant only because it is playing in a conference where a losing record still can get you into the playoffs.

He's never going to read this LOL.

Correction: He's never going to ADMIT to reading this!

[Reality]

Thanks FRAN*s.  WoW talking about not showing up.

I put Jersey at 40% chance of winning vs 60% chance of losing vs Phx in a series.  It's not that far off.
Joe you are still so in love with Jason Kidd.  Devin Harris is a great addition to the Nets.  Along with the Lopez twin etc, they have an okay nucleous.

weakoast i indeed missed the 7-5 mark as being vs the Pacific Paties.  Instead its 7-5, make that 8-5 vs the West since Jersey just beat the Grizz.   And we know how highly you value a win over the Grizz.

[westkoast]

Thanks FRAN*s.  WoW talking about not showing up.

I put Jersey at 40% chance of winning vs 60% chance of losing vs Phx in a series.  It's not that far off.
Joe you are still so in love with Jason Kidd.  Devin Harris is a great addition to the Nets.  Along with the Lopez twin etc, they have an okay nucleous.

weakoast i indeed missed the 7-5 mark as being vs the Pacific Paties.  Instead its 7-5, make that 8-5 vs the West since Jersey just beat the Grizz.   And we know how highly you value a win over the Grizz.

It's not that you missed it.  You straight lied to try to prove your point.

[Joe Vancil]

Thanks FRAN*s.  WoW talking about not showing up.

I put Jersey at 40% chance of winning vs 60% chance of losing vs Phx in a series.  It's not that far off.
Joe you are still so in love with Jason Kidd.  Devin Harris is a great addition to the Nets.  Along with the Lopez twin etc, they have an okay nucleous.

weakoast i indeed missed the 7-5 mark as being vs the Pacific Paties.  Instead its 7-5, make that 8-5 vs the West since Jersey just beat the Grizz.   And we know how highly you value a win over the Grizz.

And in the West, an "okay nucleus" - like the ones in Minnesota, Memphis, or Clipperland - mean that you get beat pretty much every night.

[Reality]

That must explain why Jersey is 8-6 vs the West including 4-3 vs the Pacific.