Author Topic: OT- Building your own Desktop  (Read 8900 times)

Offline westkoast

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Re: OT- Building your own Desktop
« Reply #30 on: December 03, 2008, 04:32:36 PM »
1 gb ram for 2004 wasn't all that little.

The differences in 64 bit can be fairly technical.  But, one of the limitations (the one discussed in this thread) is that it can only address just over 3 GB of memory.  So if you throw 8 GB of memory into a 32 bit operation system, you're wasting over half of that.  There are hacks around that (i.e. PAE in Linux), but they're hacks, and can have detrimental effects on performance.

I couldn't tell you about getting pirated windows anymore and whether it's feasible.  Thankfully I've been free of that worry for a few years now.

You can still get pirated versions of Windows but as far as getting updates, not really.  I mean you can get away with download the re-distributable packages from Microsoft's site that they make available for IT professionals who run update servers to make sure not all updates get pushed unless they test them.  Really makes for a pain in the rear to do it that way.
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Offline WayOutWest

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Re: OT- Building your own Desktop
« Reply #31 on: December 03, 2008, 04:40:01 PM »
::)


Can you answer my question, now?

The easiest explaination is similar to serial vs parrallel.  Just imagine how many more cars can travel on a 64 lane freeway vs a 32 lane one.
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Offline WayOutWest

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Re: OT- Building your own Desktop
« Reply #32 on: December 03, 2008, 04:44:57 PM »
Quote
Keep in mind a 32 bit OS won't properly allocate 4 gigs of memory.

I don't know what that means :)  WHen I get to the point of purchasing I'll be sure to come back and ask for input cause i want to make sure i don't screw this up :)

vista 64 can handle 4 gigs. 

Actually, a 32 bit operating system can handle 4 gigs...it's supposed to anyway.  A 64 bit OS can handle upto 1,000 GB of RAM aka a Terabyte of RAM.

The only people that really need a 64 OS are video editing and gaming, huge databases (Google, Amazon, Ticketmaster, etc...) and complex 3D simulations (CAD).  So for the most part it's "gamers" who will benefit the most with some CAD geeks getting some "rendering" jollies.
"History shouldn't be a mystery"
"Our story is real history"
"Not his story"

"My people's culture was strong, it was pure"
"And if not for that white greed"
"It would've endured"

"Laker hate causes blindness"

Offline Joe Vancil

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Re: OT- Building your own Desktop
« Reply #33 on: December 03, 2008, 06:15:55 PM »
Skander,

At current, you don't need to worry about memory limitations.  Your system will address up to 4 GB.

Your big issue right now is that freakin' wireless card.

Anyone out there using a Linksys Wireless network card?

                                                               Joe
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Offline Joe Vancil

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Re: OT- Building your own Desktop
« Reply #34 on: December 03, 2008, 06:55:51 PM »
jemagee,

I've always - ALWAYS - built my own machines.  As a result, I tend to run a bit longer than most people on the systems I build, since I generally build to a pretty high spec.  I'm 5+ years on my current (desktop) system, and still going strong.  My issue is generally storage space, since I do some video editing.

Generally speaking, unless you want *THE* machine, there aren't a lot of benefits cost-wise of building your own.  There are, however, a lot of benefits CONFIGURATION-wise.  By building your own system, you get *THE* parts that you want, and if you're looking for a trouble-free system, that's the way to do it.

The other nice thing about building your own machine from the ground up really hits when you get to the OS.  You install what you want, and *ONLY* what you want.  Most pre-built systems come with tons of junk that you really DON'T want, and can't get rid of all that easily.  The other big downside is that they go cheap with OEM licenses - which I hate.  If I wanted to do away with my current machine, and get a new machine, I could re-use my XP license...but, then again, I paid more for it.  And I went with the XP Pro, rather than XP Home, meaning I can make use of my nice network and can set my machine up to connect into my domain.

The downside is that if you have trouble, guess who tech support is.  If you're experienced, or have a friend who is actually really good with troubleshooting (which is a lot more rare than most would have you believe), you're in good shape to do your own machine.

Another downside is that hardware changes FAST, and you have to keep up with it to know exactly what you're dealing with, and that the parts and pieces that may go bad in your system are still replaceable a couple of years down the road.  If you don't keep up, you may end up looking for a piece that is currently obsolete to fix your machine that's a few years old.

I tend to be pretty picky with my systems.  I want a keyboard that feel just so...not just any keyboard will do.  I like my Kensington Expert Mouse trackball.  I want specific things out of my Sound Card, graphics card, network card, etc.  It may be something as seemingly trivial as having a configuration layout like I expect, or it may be as picky as being able to find the toner for my printer at any store 7 or 8 years down the line.  I want it to fit in X amount of space, have X amount of expansion, etc.  And I want it from specific companies;  no more of going with a reasonably no-name company and then finding out 2 years down the road that they're not releasing drivers for the new OS that's coming out.

The more picky you are, the more likely you're going to want to build your own machine, partly - and only partly - because you know the difference between what you WANT and what you're liable to get "off the shelf."

That said, there are "lemon" products from big names out there.  Every once in a while, there's a product that just doesn't live up to the company's reputation - and that's another downside to going "bleeding edge."  Then again, sometimes, you get ABSOLUTELY KILLER products - like Skander can tell you about when he got his video card, or me getting a keyboard in 1991 that I still use today.

A big part of the reason I'm so picky is because my home network is rather involved;  rebuilding the whole thing would be a nightmare, and so I have to pick and choose which things DO fit the entire scheme and which things DO NOT.  By putting a little forethought into things, I generally have a replacement part in one of my other machines in the event something in a more critical machine goes down - and part failures generally don't happen too often for me.  <knock knock>  And having the whole system gives me a bit of a piecemeal way of incorporating new technology.

There are lots of pluses and minuses both ways.  I just generally hate the minuses from pre-built systems to such a level that I'm willing to fork over the extra cash to "do it right" up front, and keep my system in place for an extended time. 
Joe

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Offline SPURSX3

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Re: OT- Building your own Desktop
« Reply #35 on: December 03, 2008, 07:53:37 PM »
yeah i have a franken-puter i built about 10 years ago that is about ready to be put down.  don't think i want to bother building again. 
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Offline Laker Fan

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Re: OT- Building your own Desktop
« Reply #36 on: December 03, 2008, 07:58:00 PM »
I have NEVER bought a pc, I build my own, and whether it costs more or less is irrelevant, what it does is what matters.

I am a huge fan of Asus for the mobo, AMD for the cpu, Corsair for RAM,  Thermaltake for the psu and cooling, and Nvidia for the video chipset. Everything I just mentioned can be purchased at killer prices at newegg, the best online site there is.

I would say run  ASUS M2N-SLI Deluxe for your mobo, MSI NX8800GTS for your video, AMD|A64 X2 6400 3.2G AM2 for your cpu, TWIN2X4096-6400C5DHX for RAM ( it will only see 3.45 M GB of it on a 32 bit OS), and a GOOD copper heatsink (thermaltake) for cooling and fans, I prefer Antec cases. Run it with XP pro at 32 bits.

The video card will give you excellent ability for video editing and the mobo has intense bus speeds and copper liquid transfer cooling, I just built a PC in May based on this exact platform and it is stable beyond belief and BLISTERING fast! Vista blows chunks and personally I think 2000 Pro was the most stable MS OS out there but XP gives you better video and photo editing capabilities.

I could spec one PERFECTLY if you want just let me know, with the time I have right now this is just a thumbnail of what I think works
Dan

Offline Derek Bodner

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Re: OT- Building your own Desktop
« Reply #37 on: December 03, 2008, 10:16:39 PM »
Quote
At current, you don't need to worry about memory limitations.  Your system will address up to 4 GB.

That's um...not true.  You will not get 4 GB for use by the system.

a 32 bit OS can only address 4 GB maximum of memory.  That 4 GB is not available in its entirety for the OS to use on applications:
http://download.microsoft.com/download/e/b/a/eba1050f-a31d-436b-9281-92cdfeae4b45/mem-mgmt.doc

Quote
The physical address space is used to address more than just RAM. It is also used to address all of the memory and some of the registers presented by devices. Consequently, if a machine is configured with the maximum amount of physical memory, some of that memory will be unusable because some of the physical address space is mapped for other uses.

That's why the usable memory for applications is ca 3-3.5 GB.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2008, 10:22:55 PM by Derek Bodner »

Offline westkoast

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Re: OT- Building your own Desktop
« Reply #38 on: December 03, 2008, 11:25:36 PM »
Joe and LF are right.  I think all of us here agree that building your own is the way to go if you want power or a specific configuration of hardware/software.  Machines like that cost money but will last a while.  For video editing you almost have to go Joe's route.  For doing things in Illustrator or Indesign?  You can get away with beefing up on memory IMO.

One thing that has not been mentioned is support.  While Joe and LF are tech guys who can easily fix most of their problems on their own (and ill bet they can build a PC while nappin in the afternoon on a Sunday), you may not be one of those guys.  Dell for example offers phone support, easy re-install CDs, and parts replacement as part of the package of the computer.    You could easily learn how to trouble shoot if you had the desire to learn and the time to browse the web to get help if you built you own.  You could also make your own PC images. Again it comes back to my original question on if you want to learn and have the experience.

You may enjoy the experience.  You seem to enjoy the web design/data base stuff.  This is the other side of the computer and I think it's worth learning.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2008, 11:27:08 PM by westkoast »
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jemagee

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Re: OT- Building your own Desktop
« Reply #39 on: December 03, 2008, 11:34:26 PM »
Yeah, dell has some good tech support - and when you got an issue (under warranty) they get service reps out to your place pretty quickly...

Offline WayOutWest

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Re: OT- Building your own Desktop
« Reply #40 on: December 04, 2008, 01:05:52 AM »
jemagee,

I've always - ALWAYS - built my own machines.  As a result, I tend to run a bit longer than most people on the systems I build, since I generally build to a pretty high spec.  I'm 5+ years on my current (desktop) system, and still going strong.  My issue is generally storage space, since I do some video editing.

Generally speaking, unless you want *THE* machine, there aren't a lot of benefits cost-wise of building your own.  There are, however, a lot of benefits CONFIGURATION-wise.  By building your own system, you get *THE* parts that you want, and if you're looking for a trouble-free system, that's the way to do it.

The other nice thing about building your own machine from the ground up really hits when you get to the OS.  You install what you want, and *ONLY* what you want.  Most pre-built systems come with tons of junk that you really DON'T want, and can't get rid of all that easily.  The other big downside is that they go cheap with OEM licenses - which I hate.  If I wanted to do away with my current machine, and get a new machine, I could re-use my XP license...but, then again, I paid more for it.  And I went with the XP Pro, rather than XP Home, meaning I can make use of my nice network and can set my machine up to connect into my domain.

The downside is that if you have trouble, guess who tech support is.  If you're experienced, or have a friend who is actually really good with troubleshooting (which is a lot more rare than most would have you believe), you're in good shape to do your own machine.

Another downside is that hardware changes FAST, and you have to keep up with it to know exactly what you're dealing with, and that the parts and pieces that may go bad in your system are still replaceable a couple of years down the road.  If you don't keep up, you may end up looking for a piece that is currently obsolete to fix your machine that's a few years old.

I tend to be pretty picky with my systems.  I want a keyboard that feel just so...not just any keyboard will do.  I like my Kensington Expert Mouse trackball.  I want specific things out of my Sound Card, graphics card, network card, etc.  It may be something as seemingly trivial as having a configuration layout like I expect, or it may be as picky as being able to find the toner for my printer at any store 7 or 8 years down the line.  I want it to fit in X amount of space, have X amount of expansion, etc.  And I want it from specific companies;  no more of going with a reasonably no-name company and then finding out 2 years down the road that they're not releasing drivers for the new OS that's coming out.

The more picky you are, the more likely you're going to want to build your own machine, partly - and only partly - because you know the difference between what you WANT and what you're liable to get "off the shelf."

That said, there are "lemon" products from big names out there.  Every once in a while, there's a product that just doesn't live up to the company's reputation - and that's another downside to going "bleeding edge."  Then again, sometimes, you get ABSOLUTELY KILLER products - like Skander can tell you about when he got his video card, or me getting a keyboard in 1991 that I still use today.

A big part of the reason I'm so picky is because my home network is rather involved;  rebuilding the whole thing would be a nightmare, and so I have to pick and choose which things DO fit the entire scheme and which things DO NOT.  By putting a little forethought into things, I generally have a replacement part in one of my other machines in the event something in a more critical machine goes down - and part failures generally don't happen too often for me.  <knock knock>  And having the whole system gives me a bit of a piecemeal way of incorporating new technology.

There are lots of pluses and minuses both ways.  I just generally hate the minuses from pre-built systems to such a level that I'm willing to fork over the extra cash to "do it right" up front, and keep my system in place for an extended time. 

Turn in your "Man Card" IMMEDIATELY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"History shouldn't be a mystery"
"Our story is real history"
"Not his story"

"My people's culture was strong, it was pure"
"And if not for that white greed"
"It would've endured"

"Laker hate causes blindness"

Offline SPURSX3

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Re: OT- Building your own Desktop
« Reply #41 on: December 04, 2008, 11:16:50 AM »
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834115524

Love the specs on this laptop.  hdmi port, gigabit lan, wifi-N, thinking about buying this, any opinions on this?  Seems like a good deal to me.
On the set of Walker Texas Ranger Chuck Norris brought a dying lamb back to life by nuzzling it with his beard. As the onlookers gathered, the lamb sprang to life. Chuck Norris then roundhouse kicked it, killing it instantly. The lesson? The good Chuck giveth, and the good Chuck, he taketh away.

Offline Derek Bodner

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Re: OT- Building your own Desktop
« Reply #42 on: December 04, 2008, 12:42:22 PM »
I've had acers in the past and haven't had any problems.  In fact, I tend to think their QA is as good if not better than, say, Dell.  I can't speak to their support, though, as I've never had to contact them.  That's both good (that I haven't had any major problems) and unsure (as I can't speak for their support).

Their performance to price ratio is definitely very good.

Offline Skandery

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Re: OT- Building your own Desktop
« Reply #43 on: January 13, 2009, 11:45:59 AM »
Wow everyone was excited about this topic a month ago.  Almost forgot this thread existed.

Obviously much more relevant to me, now.

BTW, is jem really banned?  And if so, what'd he do? 
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Offline westkoast

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Re: OT- Building your own Desktop
« Reply #44 on: January 14, 2009, 12:56:29 PM »
Wow everyone was excited about this topic a month ago.  Almost forgot this thread existed.

Obviously much more relevant to me, now.

BTW, is jem really banned?  And if so, what'd he do? 

http://forums.phillyarena.net/index.php?topic=5237.0

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