Brandon Roy as good was Lebron and Kobe? (Byron Scott losing it?)

[westkoast]

OK WK, you don't like Brandon Roy, we get it.

But like the long lost Randy you seem to be afflicted with, "I going to make things up and then argue them as statements of fact", so please show me where exactly it is that I said that.

1) Saying he's not in the same category as LeBron and Kobe isn't "not liking" someone.
2) Byron Scott said that he's in the same category as LeBron and Kobe.  You said "maybe Byron Scott's ahead of the curve" in reference to this statement.  Ergo, you're arguing (or at least supporting) that Roy is in the same category as LeBron and Kobe.

I can't see how wk is out of line on this one.

I also said that "maybe Byron Scott is losing it", so it seems to me that I didn't take a position one way or the other.  Derek if you can't see that, then maybe you are not as smart as I give you credit for.  I took this post as an attempt to get into a pissing match, and I had no interest in getting into a pissing match.  So I just threw a bunch of stuff out there, and left it that.

As far as point #1, so what only westkoast is able to blow off someones point with a similar post?  Let me know if there are any other rules I need to be aware of.

Let's not pretend you are neutral on this one. How does one line saying 'maybe he is losing it' counter 3 posts being for what Byron Scott said?  I did not blow off your point.   I clearly said I disagreed with it.  The Blazers are the 4th best team in the league based on 15 games.  I hardly think that shoots Brandon Roy up into the stratosphere with Bron and Kobe.   As you can see I am not the only person who realized you were a tad upset towards me (like you typically are) for saying that one of the players from a team you like a lot is not as good as the two biggest players on the planet.  Stats are great and all but he really is not on the same level as Lebron and Kobe for many other reasons.  A number of which you can't really judge based on stats.  I can't just dismiss what Kobe and Lebron have done over the past 2-3 seasons because Brandon Roy's team is 4th right now.

How is it a pissing match?  This is not between you and I.  This is between the players.  Lebron James and Kobe Bryant are the two best players in the game.  Brandon Roy is not considered one of the two best players in the league by fans, coaches, players, experts, etc.  Insulting DB was very petty on your part.

[Derek Bodner]

Zig:
I'm not sure what your problem is and why all of a sudden you need to be combative with posts filled with ad hominem attacks, but please let me know whether this is a permanent change in Ziggy's tone or temporary so I know whether to put you on my ignore list.

Thanks.

[ziggy]

OK WK, you don't like Brandon Roy, we get it.

But like the long lost Randy you seem to be afflicted with, "I going to make things up and then argue them as statements of fact", so please show me where exactly it is that I said that.

1) Saying he's not in the same category as LeBron and Kobe isn't "not liking" someone.
2) Byron Scott said that he's in the same category as LeBron and Kobe.  You said "maybe Byron Scott's ahead of the curve" in reference to this statement.  Ergo, you're arguing (or at least supporting) that Roy is in the same category as LeBron and Kobe.

I can't see how wk is out of line on this one.

I also said that "maybe Byron Scott is losing it", so it seems to me that I didn't take a position one way or the other.  Derek if you can't see that, then maybe you are not as smart as I give you credit for.  I took this post as an attempt to get into a pissing match, and I had no interest in getting into a pissing match.  So I just threw a bunch of stuff out there, and left it that.

As far as point #1, so what only westkoast is able to blow off someones point with a similar post?  Let me know if there are any other rules I need to be aware of.

Let's not pretend you are neutral on this one. How does one line saying 'maybe he is losing it' counter 3 posts being for what Byron Scott said?  I did not blow off your point.   I clearly said I disagreed with it.  The Blazers are the 4th best team in the league based on 15 games.  I hardly think that shoots Brandon Roy up into the stratosphere with Bron and Kobe.   As you can see I am not the only person who realized you were a tad upset towards me (like you typically are) for saying that one of the players from a team you like a lot is not as good as the two biggest players on the planet.  Stats are great and all but he really is not on the same level as Lebron and Kobe for many other reasons.  A number of which you can't really judge based on stats.  I can't just dismiss what Kobe and Lebron have done over the past 2-3 seasons because Brandon Roy's team is 4th right now.

How is it a pissing match?  This is not between you and I.  This is between the players.  Lebron James and Kobe Bryant are the two best players in the game.  Brandon Roy is not considered one of the two best players in the league by fans, coaches, players, experts, etc.  Insulting DB was very petty on your part.

I never ever came close to saying Brandon Roy was equal to Kobe, D Wade, LeBron or any one else.  Not even close.  He isn't.  Just because you think I am not neutral, doesn't mean I am or I am not.  Please go read every post I made, and please tell me where I took a strong position, and take your preconceptions out of it.

Read and think about Scott's quote and put it into context.
"As coaches, when we scout Portland, we kind of put him in the same category of Kobe (Bryant), LeBron (James), Dwyane Wade," Scott said. "We treat him the same. He's that good.

This isn't some internal missive between Scott, and all the scouts and front office people talking about which of the 4 they should sign as FA.  This is the post game press conference.  You hear throw away quotes like this all the time.  They mean nothing.

Game over, you lost, and Roy had a big game, and you are in the press conference.    First Kobe, DWade, and Lebron don't play for Portland, so he is going to look at the other players and see who is the best one.  That happens to be Roy.  Roy was an all-star last year, so make some throw-away quote to give deference, and no bulletin board material.  What was he supposed to say after they lost, and Roy played a very good game.  "He played OK, but he ain't Kobe, LeBron or DWade".  Coaches don't do that.  This is part of the dance between coaches and the media.  Scott likes Roy, but he wants to get out of town.  So he gives the media a nice quote they can mix into their story that is on deadline in 30 minutes.  They get something that works, and they all say, Thanks Byron, and he is out the door to the charter or the hotel. 

I took all of it strictly from that perspective, preferred to be cryptic rather than get into discussion that goes round and round.  You guys made the leap assuming what I thought.

[ziggy]

Does anyone on this board agree with Ziggy he belongs in the same breathe with Kobe Bryant and Lebron James?

Wk this is very simply the post that really torqued me off.  I didn't even come close to saying anything of the sort.  I said I could see it becoming a pissing match, and it did right here.

[Lurker]

Does anyone on this board agree with Ziggy he belongs in the same breathe with Kobe Bryant and Lebron James?

Depends on context.

Answer this question for Cleveland, Miami, Lakers & Blazers:  When designing your defensive game plan who do you focus on?

In that context Roy is in the same breath as Lebron, Wade and Kobe.  That is basically what Scott said and ziggy saw for what it was.

[Skandery]

Answer this question for Cleveland, Miami, Lakers & Blazers:  When designing your defensive game plan who do you focus on?

In that context Roy is in the same breath as Lebron, Wade and Kobe.  That is basically what Scott said and ziggy saw for what it was.

I'm with Lurker and this is exactly how I took it.

[Reality]

Answer this question for Cleveland, Miami, Lakers & Blazers:  When designing your defensive game plan who do you focus on?

In that context Roy is in the same breath as Lebron, Wade and Kobe.  That is basically what Scott said and ziggy saw for what it was.

I'm with Lurker and this is exactly how I took it.

+3

[WayOutWest]

Answer this question for Cleveland, Miami, Lakers & Blazers:  When designing your defensive game plan who do you focus on?

In that context Roy is in the same breath as Lebron, Wade and Kobe.  That is basically what Scott said and ziggy saw for what it was.

I'm with Lurker and this is exactly how I took it.

Does that mean Durant is in the same breath as Bron, Kobe and DWade?  No, it does not.  There is a HUGE difference between "focusing" on one particular player vs. completely changing your defensive scheme/game because of one particular player i.e. LeBron/Kobe.  It was obviously not a well thought out comment by Scott, Roy is not in the same league as DWade let alone LeBron and Kobe.

[WayOutWest]

Answer this question for Cleveland, Miami, Lakers & Blazers:  When designing your defensive game plan who do you focus on?

In that context Roy is in the same breath as Lebron, Wade and Kobe.  That is basically what Scott said and ziggy saw for what it was.

I'm with Lurker and this is exactly how I took it.

+3

GAME OVER!  The "stupid" side of this discussion "coin" has revealed itself!  Lurker/Skandy = MORONS!

[Lurker]

Answer this question for Cleveland, Miami, Lakers & Blazers:  When designing your defensive game plan who do you focus on?

In that context Roy is in the same breath as Lebron, Wade and Kobe.  That is basically what Scott said and ziggy saw for what it was.

I'm with Lurker and this is exactly how I took it.

Does that mean Durant is in the same breath as Bron, Kobe and DWade?  No, it does not.  There is a HUGE difference between "focusing" on one particular player vs. completely changing your defensive scheme/game because of one particular player i.e. LeBron/Kobe.  It was obviously not a well thought out comment by Scott, Roy is not in the same league as DWade let alone LeBron and Kobe.

Yes it does mean Durant is in that same breath based on that question.  Maybe Kobe should be dropped from it since the Lakers have so many weapons now?

If you want to discuss MVP candidates then you are right...Roy and Durant are not in that discussion.  If the discussion is about each team's best player...and by logic defensive focus...then including Roy & Durant is very valid.

You are bordering on Reality-like Kobe love in this one WoW.  It isn't healthy.  You should step away from the keyboard and have another shot of espresso.

[WayOutWest]

Answer this question for Cleveland, Miami, Lakers & Blazers:  When designing your defensive game plan who do you focus on?

In that context Roy is in the same breath as Lebron, Wade and Kobe.  That is basically what Scott said and ziggy saw for what it was.

I'm with Lurker and this is exactly how I took it.

Does that mean Durant is in the same breath as Bron, Kobe and DWade?  No, it does not.  There is a HUGE difference between "focusing" on one particular player vs. completely changing your defensive scheme/game because of one particular player i.e. LeBron/Kobe.  It was obviously not a well thought out comment by Scott, Roy is not in the same league as DWade let alone LeBron and Kobe.

Yes it does mean Durant is in that same breath based on that question.  Maybe Kobe should be dropped from it since the Lakers have so many weapons now?

If you want to discuss MVP candidates then you are right...Roy and Durant are not in that discussion.  If the discussion is about each team's best player...and by logic defensive focus...then including Roy & Durant is very valid.

You are bordering on Reality-like Kobe love in this one WoW.  It isn't healthy.  You should step away from the keyboard and have another shot of espresso.

LeBron and Kobe have been fused into one person and the Lakers got to keep him and named him Kobe?  Probably not, it's probably more likely you're the one focusing on just Kobe.  Typical..... 

I guess you missed the whole :

.....There is a HUGE difference between "focusing" on one particular player vs. completely changing your defensive scheme/game......

thing huh?

[Lurker]

I guess you missed the whole :

.....There is a HUGE difference between "focusing" on one particular player vs. completely changing your defensive scheme/game......

thing huh?

No.  A defensive plan is devised for each game.  The defensive scheme is the basic defensive sets & strategy.  A coach changes the plan...within the overall team defensive schemes...depending on who their opponent is that night.  But defensive schemes generally only change when there are coaching xchanges.

When teams play the Lakers, Kobe is the defensive focus.  When teams play the Cavs, LBJ is the focus.  When teams play Portland, Roy is the focus.  When teams play the Thunder, Durant is the focus.  Some of these players will be more effective combating that defensive focus but the game plan will be to put those players as the top defensive focus.  But teams don't install new defensive schemes just to play Kobe or LeBron.

This is so simple even Reality understands it.

[jemagee]

Byron Scott is NOT crazy, he is on crack!

That's racist, couldn't he be on cocaine?

[WayOutWest]

I guess you missed the whole :

.....There is a HUGE difference between "focusing" on one particular player vs. completely changing your defensive scheme/game......

thing huh?

No.  A defensive plan is devised for each game.  The defensive scheme is the basic defensive sets & strategy.  A coach changes the plan...within the overall team defensive schemes...depending on who their opponent is that night.  But defensive schemes generally only change when there are coaching xchanges.

When teams play the Lakers, Kobe is the defensive focus.  When teams play the Cavs, LBJ is the focus.  When teams play Portland, Roy is the focus.  When teams play the Thunder, Durant is the focus.  Some of these players will be more effective combating that defensive focus but the game plan will be to put those players as the top defensive focus.  But teams don't install new defensive schemes just to play Kobe or LeBron.

This is so simple even Reality understands it.

That is where the argument should focus Lurker, not on your obsession with Kobe.  IMO the defenses thrown at LeBron/Kobe, and in the past Shaq, were the equivalent of installing a new defensive scheme.  Something you said ONLY happens when there is a coaching change.  IMO the defensive changes teams make to play LeBron/Kobe is the equivalent to a "coaching change" type of adjustment.  I saw it last year from Boston vs LeBron and Kobe and I have seen it durring the regular season, changes I NEVER see for players like Roy, which is the whole point of my posts.

I'm glad you see my point, you just don't agree and that I can deal with vs. the name calling and red herring "Kobe" comments.

[Lurker]

I guess you missed the whole :

.....There is a HUGE difference between "focusing" on one particular player vs. completely changing your defensive scheme/game......

thing huh?

No.  A defensive plan is devised for each game.  The defensive scheme is the basic defensive sets & strategy.  A coach changes the plan...within the overall team defensive schemes...depending on who their opponent is that night.  But defensive schemes generally only change when there are coaching xchanges.

When teams play the Lakers, Kobe is the defensive focus.  When teams play the Cavs, LBJ is the focus.  When teams play Portland, Roy is the focus.  When teams play the Thunder, Durant is the focus.  Some of these players will be more effective combating that defensive focus but the game plan will be to put those players as the top defensive focus.  But teams don't install new defensive schemes just to play Kobe or LeBron.

This is so simple even Reality understands it.

That is where the argument should focus Lurker, not on your obsession with Kobe.  IMO the defenses thrown at LeBron/Kobe, and in the past Shaq, were the equivalent of installing a new defensive scheme.  Something you said ONLY happens when there is a coaching change.  IMO the defensive changes teams make to play LeBron/Kobe is the equivalent to a "coaching change" type of adjustment.  I saw it last year from Boston vs LeBron and Kobe and I have seen it durring the regular season, changes I NEVER see for players like Roy, which is the whole point of my posts.

I'm glad you see my point, you just don't agree and that I can deal with vs. the name calling and red herring "Kobe" comments.

I am glad that I could explain your point since your argument consisted primarily of "no way Roy belongs in this conversation".  Maybe if you would have expounded on your views of defensive plans vs defensive schemes or clarified your meaning of "not in the same league" then this thread could have been about 10 posts shorter.