Author Topic: NBA related Web Weirdness  (Read 4479 times)

jemagee

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NBA related Web Weirdness
« on: November 21, 2008, 06:06:57 PM »

Offline westkoast

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Re: NBA related Web Weirdness
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2008, 06:43:42 PM »
LOL!!!

I like Durant and all.  Think he will be a solid player for years but is someone really that big of a fan of his?  What has he done to make someone so excited about him to where they make a whole website like that.  He just doesn't strike me as the type of player who is going to blow up into a Lebron, Wade type player so why does it matter what market he is in?
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jemagee

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Re: NBA related Web Weirdness
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2008, 06:47:54 PM »
I don't think it's about Durant - it's about bitter Seattle fans finding and outlet for the screwing they received by moving the NBA to a ridiculous market that won't support a crap team long term - Durant is the biggest name on the team and most likely to be the one to cash in in restricted free agency....i personally think durant misses too many shots.


Offline Derek Bodner

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Re: NBA related Web Weirdness
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2008, 06:53:49 PM »
I think Durant's game isn't diverse enough for him to be the stud he was hyped up to be.  Certainly don't like him as the 2 they're trying to make him.

Thad Young will be a better player in the long run IMO.

jemagee

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Re: NBA related Web Weirdness
« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2008, 07:08:36 PM »
Social Median tells me this has been verified as the one and only big egotist

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Offline Lurker

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Re: NBA related Web Weirdness
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2008, 10:13:33 AM »
I think Durant's game isn't diverse enough for him to be the stud he was hyped up to be.  Certainly don't like him as the 2 they're trying to make him.

Thad Young will be a better player in the long run IMO.

I think he would be better at the 3.  His game at Texas showed more of those type skills than the range of a NBA SG.  Don't know if it is just (NBA) political correctness on his part but he claims to be happier closer to his family in Texas.

But he definately needs someone on the floor to compliment his skills...he isn't a Wade or LBJ.
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jemagee

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Re: NBA related Web Weirdness
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2008, 11:29:47 AM »
Carlesimo got fired last night?  Did someone in the franchise expect this team to be better than the suckage?

Offline Skandery

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Re: NBA related Web Weirdness
« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2008, 12:21:33 PM »
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I think Durant's game isn't diverse enough for him to be the stud he was hyped up to be.
 

I don't think that's fair Derek.  Durant is very diverse in the types of shots he misses!!  8)
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Offline westkoast

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Re: NBA related Web Weirdness
« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2008, 12:26:45 PM »
Carlesimo got fired last night?  Did someone in the franchise expect this team to be better than the suckage?

LOL seriously.  The only reason the Sonics had been half way decent this past decade was because of Ray Allen's sharp shooting.  What happens when you replace a great jump shooter with a below average one?  You lose.
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Offline ziggy

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Re: NBA related Web Weirdness
« Reply #9 on: November 22, 2008, 03:14:45 PM »
LOL!!!

I like Durant and all.  Think he will be a solid player for years but is someone really that big of a fan of his?  What has he done to make someone so excited about him to where they make a whole website like that.  He just doesn't strike me as the type of player who is going to blow up into a Lebron, Wade type player so why does it matter what market he is in?

Well lets see, he was the first freshman to win the NCAA Player of the year, was the #2 pick in the draft, and rookie of the year.  He is very different than a typical NBA rookie, very different.  Of the 10 players most like him after his rookie year, 7 were big time ABA players.  One was Brandon Roy, and 3 were eventual hall of famers.  Kobe was in a different situation than Durant, but it took Kobe 3 years to put up similar numbers to Durant in his rookie year.  Dwyane Wade's rookie year was not as good as Durant's, and he was 22 and Durant 19.  In comparing him to the other rookies of the year, he compares very well to Paul, LeBron, and Carter, and perhaps only Gasol and Brand had better overall numbers.  Durant is miscast as a SG, but he was the best rookie last year by far.

Derek, you are a very smart guy, but Thaddeus Young will be a better player???  All I will say is that Mr. Young has to improve a hell of a lot, just to get to the same level as Durant, let a lone be better than him.  We shall see.
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Offline westkoast

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Re: NBA related Web Weirdness
« Reply #10 on: November 22, 2008, 09:22:14 PM »
Ziggy do you think if Durant was in a bigger market he would be a better player?  I sure don't.

What you posted is backed up by stats but he is the one and only weapon on this squad.  His numbers are and should be much higher for that reason.  Speaking of Dwayne, his rookie year he had a number of big games in the playoffs.  The guys you mentioned showed flashes of their potential early on.  I just don't see it with Durant.  Like I said he will be a solid player but he is not super star material IMO. 
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Offline Lurker

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Re: NBA related Web Weirdness
« Reply #11 on: November 22, 2008, 10:06:00 PM »
Ziggy do you think if Durant was in a bigger market he would be a better player?  I sure don't.

What you posted is backed up by stats but he is the one and only weapon on this squad.  His numbers are and should be much higher for that reason.  Speaking of Dwayne, his rookie year he had a number of big games in the playoffs.  The guys you mentioned showed flashes of their potential early on.  I just don't see it with Durant.  Like I said he will be a solid player but he is not super star material IMO. 

Wade also had Shaq...Durant has no one even near a declining Shaq. 
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Offline Derek Bodner

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Re: NBA related Web Weirdness
« Reply #12 on: November 23, 2008, 02:25:45 AM »
Quote
Well lets see, he was the first freshman to win the NCAA Player of the year, was the #2 pick in the draft, and rookie of the year.

College success does not necessarily beget nba success.  Best example of this is Glenn Robinson.  Was "Big Dog" a very, very good NBA player?  Sure.  Was he a superstar?  Nope.  But the man was a flat out stud in college.  A sure thing.  And a very good rookie.

I think Durant's going to be very good, but I don't think he has the upside many people pinned on him when he was dominating in college.  I don't see the skillsets to dominate the wing, and I don't see him having the frame to ever defend the 4.  I felt his best pro position was the NBA 4.  I thought that's where he'd have the most effect offensively.  But that's an impossibility at this point.

Quote
Derek, you are a very smart guy, but Thaddeus Young will be a better player???  All I will say is that Mr. Young has to improve a hell of a lot, just to get to the same level as Durant, let a lone be better than him.  We shall see.

One could argue he's already very close.

Offensively, their overall contribution is close.  Durant's scoring 5 ppg more (21.2 vs 16.2), albeit at 8% less fg% (44.6% vs 52.9%).  Obviously, they have different roles.  If Thad was asked to be the top option, his efficiency would probably drop, but he would probably average a few more ppg as well.

Young actually has a higher PER right now than Durant (18.0 vs 16.9).  Young has a more diversified offensive game.  If you watch Young, his outside shot has improved greatly.  His 3 pt shot is probably the best on the Sixers, which is probably similar to being called the tallest midget, but the progression he's made since entering the league is simply startling.  Besides shooting 39% on 3's this year, and actually making more per game than Durant (1.2 vs 0.6), Young's midrange jumper is phenomenal.  He's hitting 45% of his shots between 17' and the 3 pt line.  By comparison, Durant only hits 37% of his shots in this range.

Young is so much better at scoring around the hoop it's not even funny.  This was the one area last year that was undeniable with Young.  He has great, great touch around the rim, and very good body control.   This is simply something Durant doesn't have.

Right now, I would say Young has a better midrange game, post up game and is a better finisher around the hoop.  Once Young's 3 pt shot becomes consistent, and his handles improve (both of which, from the quick learning curve I've seen out of Young are a matter of when, not if), I think he has as much offensive potential as Durant.  He's already the best offensive player on the Sixers IMO.

And defensively it's not even close.  There's a reason right now Young's PER differential is +4.6, whereas Durant's is -0.6.  Young's a very good defender, whereas Durant is average at best.

The argument about who's the better player at this stage when taking into account efficiency and defense, is very close.  We'll see down the road when they're developed and in different situations with regards to their teammates who is the better overall player.

Offline ziggy

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Re: NBA related Web Weirdness
« Reply #13 on: November 23, 2008, 03:43:27 AM »
Ziggy do you think if Durant was in a bigger market he would be a better player?  I sure don't.

What you posted is backed up by stats but he is the one and only weapon on this squad.  His numbers are and should be much higher for that reason.  Speaking of Dwayne, his rookie year he had a number of big games in the playoffs.  The guys you mentioned showed flashes of their potential early on.  I just don't see it with Durant.  Like I said he will be a solid player but he is not super star material IMO. 

The market doesn't make player, so no he wouldn't be a better player in a bigger market.  He would be a better player if had some talent around him.  His numbers may be high because he is the only guy on OKC, but being the only guy means he has to take on greater responsibility, meaning he is the guy who is double teamed, he is the guy that has to bail out everyone else, he is the guy who has to force up shots, he is the guy defended by the other teams best defender.  As Lurker said if he had a Shaq on his team like Wade, would his numbers be measurably different?  He would be much more efficient, that is for sure, but even still his efficiency is comparable to some of the best ROY over the last decade.
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Offline ziggy

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Re: NBA related Web Weirdness
« Reply #14 on: November 23, 2008, 04:02:27 AM »
Quote
Well lets see, he was the first freshman to win the NCAA Player of the year, was the #2 pick in the draft, and rookie of the year.

College success does not necessarily beget nba success.  Best example of this is Glenn Robinson.  Was "Big Dog" a very, very good NBA player?  Sure.  Was he a superstar?  Nope.  But the man was a flat out stud in college.  A sure thing.  And a very good rookie. 

My response was simply in response to wk being incredulous that someone would be so excited about the guy, and asking what has he done.  My point is, he has done a heck of a lot after 1 year in NCAA and one year in the NBA.  In fact you could argue that he has done just about everything you could ask someone to do.
Now Durant could turn out to be Big Dog, his rookie numbers were similar to Robinson's rookie numbers.  Of course Big Dog was 22 and Durant was 19.  Big Dog won the NCAA player of the year, as a senior, Durant as a freshman.

One could argue he's already very close.

Offensively, their overall contribution is close.  Durant's scoring 5 ppg more (21.2 vs 16.2), albeit at 8% less fg% (44.6% vs 52.9%).  Obviously, they have different roles.  If Thad was asked to be the top option, his efficiency would probably drop, but he would probably average a few more ppg as well.

Young actually has a higher PER right now than Durant (18.0 vs 16.9).  Young has a more diversified offensive game.  If you watch Young, his outside shot has improved greatly.  His 3 pt shot is probably the best on the Sixers, which is probably similar to being called the tallest midget, but the progression he's made since entering the league is simply startling.  Besides shooting 39% on 3's this year, and actually making more per game than Durant (1.2 vs 0.6), Young's midrange jumper is phenomenal.  He's hitting 45% of his shots between 17' and the 3 pt line.  By comparison, Durant only hits 37% of his shots in this range.

Young is so much better at scoring around the hoop it's not even funny.  This was the one area last year that was undeniable with Young.  He has great, great touch around the rim, and very good body control.   This is simply something Durant doesn't have.

Right now, I would say Young has a better midrange game, post up game and is a better finisher around the hoop.  Once Young's 3 pt shot becomes consistent, and his handles improve (both of which, from the quick learning curve I've seen out of Young are a matter of when, not if), I think he has as much offensive potential as Durant.  He's already the best offensive player on the Sixers IMO.

And defensively it's not even close.  There's a reason right now Young's PER differential is +4.6, whereas Durant's is -0.6.  Young's a very good defender, whereas Durant is average at best.

The argument about who's the better player at this stage when taking into account efficiency and defense, is very close.  We'll see down the road when they're developed and in different situations with regards to their teammates who is the better overall player.


I haven't see Thaddeus Young all season, and only a couple of times last year.  He didn't overly impress me when I watched him, but like I said you are a smart guy so I will take your word for it.  Of course it would be interesting to see how each would do if their situations were reversed, Young was THE guy in OKC the worst team in the league, and Durant was in Philly with Brand and Iggy.  I would also like to see the opinions of scouts, and GM's on who they think will be the better pro.
A third-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the majority. A second-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the minority. A first-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking.

A quotation is a handy thing to have about, saving one the trouble of thinking for oneself.

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