No fear on shaq-hack...funny.

[WayOutWest]

Still waiting for your proof that mathematically it doesn't work - especially when you work with made up numbers...the number are 58.2 and 52.5 - not 50 and 50

OK, LESSON TIME.

You posted:

My favorite part is the part where shaq talks about always making '50%' of his free throws....like it's a good thing he's never been better than that...and not a big deal.

I am going by what you posted about Shaq and his 50% FT shooting.  I will keep it simple for you since it seems that's the best way to get something through to you.

We will take 10 possesions playing Hack-A-Shaq

Shaq 10 possessions = 20 FT X 1 point X 50% = 10 points (He's going to make half of his 20 1pt FT's)
Spurs 10 possessions = 10 shots X 2 points X 50% = 10 points (They are going to make half of thier 10 2pt shots)

[jemagee]

Let me ask you a simple question

Do you consider 50% Free Throw shooting an accomplishment or something a player should work to improve on?

[WayOutWest]

The hack a shaq goal is to lessen shaqs impact on the game right?

No, the point is to win the game.  I agree with you that you are better off NOW sending Shaq to the line rather then letting him shot from the field.  MY point is in order for Hack-A-Shaq to work is that the opposing team has to beat Shaq's FT shooting, which I don't think any NBA team shoots better than 50% from the field.

[WayOutWest]

Let me ask you a simple question

Do you consider 50% Free Throw shooting an accomplishment or something a player should work to improve on?

ABSOLUTELY something that needs to be worked on. 

Unfortunately the reality is it is very hard to beat a 50% FT shooter from the field.  That means you need a team that shoots better than 50% from the field OR you need a player that does AND shoots better than 50% from the FT line.

[Lurker]

Mathmatically Hack-A-Shaq doesn't work BUT, you hit on a very good point.  You ice your own shooters and you give the other teams defense a chance to get set.

Still waiting for your proof that mathematically it doesn't work - especially when you work with made up numbers...the number are 58.2 and 52.5 - not 50 and 50

Because Shaq does not play 1 vs 5.  In 10 possessions Shaq will not take 10 FG attempts.  Think a little bit, it will come to you.

[WayOutWest]

Mathmatically Hack-A-Shaq doesn't work BUT, you hit on a very good point.  You ice your own shooters and you give the other teams defense a chance to get set.

Still waiting for your proof that mathematically it doesn't work - especially when you work with made up numbers...the number are 58.2 and 52.5 - not 50 and 50

Because Shaq does not play 1 vs 5.  In 10 possessions Shaq will not take 10 FG attempts.  Think a little bit, it will come to you.

When you are playing "Hack-A-Shaq" you are playing your team against Shaq's FT shooting, which is the WHOLE point......don't bother thinking......

[Joe Vancil]

Let me ask you a simple question

Do you consider 50% Free Throw shooting an accomplishment or something a player should work to improve on?

ABSOLUTELY something that needs to be worked on. 

Unfortunately the reality is it is very hard to beat a 50% FT shooter from the field.  That means you need a team that shoots better than 50% from the field OR you need a player that does AND shoots better than 50% from the FT line.

The downside here is that while it's difficult for a team to shoot over 50% for a game, it's not nearly as difficult for a team to shoot 50% for a quarter, or 50% for a 3 minute stretch.  If you talk hack-a-Shaq across the entire game, it's not a good strategy for several reasons.  But if you're talking a 3 minute stretch, you're talking something different entirely.

And let's consider an individual player.  We've all seen a specific player "heat up" at a critical juncture throughout the game.  So the team might be shooting 37% prior to this player going off, and he goes crazy, and in the end, the team is shooting 48%.  Simply put, that player hit MUCH higher than 48% or 50%.  But you're looking at the entire game's stats, versus that little time that Hack-A-Shaq was being played.

Over the long haul, Hack-A-Shaq doesn't work.  But in a short stretch, it can be effective.

[jemagee]

My problem with the '50%' number was that big men, like shaq, tend to shoot a higher than 50% FG% for their career just because of their proximity to the basket (58% I believe is shaqs career number) so when dealing with someone like shaq and the percentages that close to the basket it's actually in your favor to foul him usually....i can see how in the long run it might not make a different either way and may be detrimental - but the fact is that shaq hurts you 'more' over time from the field than he does from the FT line and his career numbers back that up - in my opinion

[Joe Vancil]

jem,

But in the 58% scenario, Shaq isn't going to take 100% of the shots.  In the 52% scenario, he is.

Hacking Shaq WHEN HE HAS THE BALL is, to me, a significantly different situation than when he doesn't have the ball.

Keep in mind - non-Hack-a-Shaq isn't going to generate 1-shot-per-1-trip, simply due to the fact that there are also turnovers to account for.  Hack-a-Shaq DEFINITELY generates 2-free-throws-per-1-trip.

[jemagee]

I admit i don't watch a lot of non playoff basketball involving shaq because i despise him - but my assumption has always been that hack a shaq was when shaq gets the ball you just bear hug him so he can't shoot?

[westkoast]

I admit i don't watch a lot of non playoff basketball involving shaq because i despise him - but my assumption has always been that hack a shaq was when shaq gets the ball you just bear hug him so he can't shoot?

At first it was like that.  Until they tried to foul him and he just used his strength to keep going up to put the ball into the hoop.   Then they started to foul him off the ball as soon as the ball was inbounded.  That is what prompted that rule you see where you can't do that under the 2 minute mark.

If the team is a run and gun team, one that thrives at playing a fast pace, then Hack-A-Shaq is VERY effective IMO.  Like it was last year in the Spurs/Suns series.  If the team is a half court team that doesn't need to run and gun to thrive, I don't think it is all that effective in the long run.  I really can't think of a time on the Lakers where the Hack-A-Shaq was the sole reason they lost a game.

[WayOutWest]

But if you're talking a 3 minute stretch, you're talking something different entirely.

Joe,

I agree, it does seem like when the game is on the line there are fewer mistakes and FG% goes up but I don't have those numbers.  On the flip, the fact of the matter is ANYTHING you can say about the "stretches" for the team hacking, you can also say for Shaq.  Shaq does go on hot streaks, and if he gets a rythm from shooting a lot of FT you might fall into that good rythm.  I think Shaq was 5 for 8 durring last nights hack-a-Shaq, so he went 62.5%, you sure as hell aint beating that from the field.  So the math says Hack-A-Shaq does NOT work, in any way shape or form.  Like you stated, when a team is trying to score they have to take into account more factors, like turn overs and blocked shots.  Like you also stated, Shaq is assured two shots at the FT line.

[jemagee]

It would be interesting if the numbers were available, and someone would have to watch to be sure, if shaq shoots better worse or the same in games where hack a shaq is employed vs when it is not.

[WayOutWest]

It would be interesting if the numbers were available, and someone would have to watch to be sure, if shaq shoots better worse or the same in games where hack a shaq is employed vs when it is not.

jem,

Its' up and down, sometimes he gets hot, sometimes he does not.  Hence his 52% FT number, it all balances out and in the end so does the opposing teams FG%.