Snaq in 08-09

[msc]

I don't expect Shaq to post numbers significantly different than last year.   It will be interesting to see how Shaq and moreso the team as a whole adjusts to the new style of play under Coach Porter.  I think a slower, half court game could obviously benefit Shaq, but will he have enough in the tank at this age to contribute solid numbers all season?  And will the team finally start playing some defense which is what Porter is emphasizing?  I'm looking forward to watching them this season. 

[WayOutWest]

Size for one.  You can't really be 6'10" and be considered a true center IMO.  The other of course being you actually play at the 5. 

WHAT?  Jeeze dude, stick to talking about guards or something cause you don't seem to know shyte about the 5.   

Hakeem, Mourning, Moses, Wallace, and Russell, all 6'10 or shorter who were true centers.

Anytime you want to join the basketball discussion post 1995 let me know.   Though I should have thrown in there that they also need multiple back to the basket moves.  Hakeem may have been undersized but his back to the basket game was something serious.

Things have changed and most big men are hybrids now ala  Amare Stoudamire or Pau Gasol.  Seriously if you are taking a good amount of jump shots it's hard to say your a TRUE center.  I don't remember seeing many reels of Bill Russell 20 feet out like Rasheed Wallace taking a face up jumper.  Maybe someone can correct me if I am mistaken.

Are you part-timming as a parrot?  Save time and just cut and paste my post and put your name in front of it next time.

[westkoast]

Size for one.  You can't really be 6'10" and be considered a true center IMO.  The other of course being you actually play at the 5. 

WHAT?  Jeeze dude, stick to talking about guards or something cause you don't seem to know shyte about the 5.   

Hakeem, Mourning, Moses, Wallace, and Russell, all 6'10 or shorter who were true centers.

Anytime you want to join the basketball discussion post 1995 let me know.   Though I should have thrown in there that they also need multiple back to the basket moves.  Hakeem may have been undersized but his back to the basket game was something serious.

Things have changed and most big men are hybrids now ala  Amare Stoudamire or Pau Gasol.  Seriously if you are taking a good amount of jump shots it's hard to say your a TRUE center.  I don't remember seeing many reels of Bill Russell 20 feet out like Rasheed Wallace taking a face up jumper.  Maybe someone can correct me if I am mistaken.

Are you part-timming as a parrot?  Save time and just cut and paste my post and put your name in front of it next time.

I think maybe you have a problem with matching up whats going on in your head and what you type.  We did not say the same exact thing so why would I copy and paste your 3 lines?   All you did was give examples of undersized centers from years past.  I elaborated on my original point and addressed yours.

[WayOutWest]

Size for one.  You can't really be 6'10" and be considered a true center IMO.  The other of course being you actually play at the 5. 

WHAT?  Jeeze dude, stick to talking about guards or something cause you don't seem to know shyte about the 5.   

Hakeem, Mourning, Moses, Wallace, and Russell, all 6'10 or shorter who were true centers.

Anytime you want to join the basketball discussion post 1995 let me know.   Though I should have thrown in there that they also need multiple back to the basket moves.  Hakeem may have been undersized but his back to the basket game was something serious.

Things have changed and most big men are hybrids now ala  Amare Stoudamire or Pau Gasol.  Seriously if you are taking a good amount of jump shots it's hard to say your a TRUE center.  I don't remember seeing many reels of Bill Russell 20 feet out like Rasheed Wallace taking a face up jumper.  Maybe someone can correct me if I am mistaken.

Are you part-timming as a parrot?  Save time and just cut and paste my post and put your name in front of it next time.

I think maybe you have a problem with matching up whats going on in your head and what you type.  We did not say the same exact thing so why would I copy and paste your 3 lines?   All you did was give examples of undersized centers from years past.  I elaborated on my original point and addressed yours.

Centers traditionally play and defend in the paint.  TD is a center, plain and simple.  Gasol is more of a PF but is also a "light" center.  Guys are just so much bigger at other positions, especially at the PF, that a traditional center like Gasol becomes a PF/C tweener.  Other PF/C tweeners IMO are guys like Memet Okur, JO, and Wallace.  They would definately be strait C's about a decade or two ago but with the new "mobile" big man, it seems the lines are getting blurred.

 

[westkoast]

So I should copy and paste what you said so I sound dumb?

Okur is not a tweener, based on your own definition I should have copy and pasted, because he doesn't have a back to the basket game.  Nor does he patrol the paint.  Neither does Gasol really.  That is why the Lakers didn't win the championship last year did you forget?   They would be forwards.  Like 85% of the big men in this league.

When I said height as an example, it was just that.  One criteria.  Like most criteria to lump people into groups there are exceptions.  It is not set in stone.     Malik Rose played center for the Spurs at one time.  He was not a center even though he patrolled the paint and could score with his back to the basket because he was undersized.  Ben Wallace patrols the paint but doesn't have a real back to the basket game, so I don't consider him a true center.  Pau Gasol is a pretty effective face up jump shooter, not a traditional center.  Catch my drift yet?

[WayOutWest]

So I should copy and paste what you said so I sound dumb?

Okur is not a tweener, based on your own definition I should have copy and pasted, because he doesn't have a back to the basket game.  Nor does he patrol the paint.  Neither does Gasol really.  That is why the Lakers didn't win the championship last year did you forget?   They would be forwards.  Like 85% of the big men in this league.

Centers traditionally play and defend in the paint.  TD is a center, plain and simple.  Gasol is more of a PF but is also a "light" center.  Guys are just so much bigger at other positions, especially at the PF, that a traditional center like Gasol becomes a PF/C tweener.  Other PF/C tweeners IMO are guys like Memet Okur, JO, and Wallace.  They would definately be strait C's about a decade or two ago but with the new "mobile" big man, it seems the lines are getting blurred.

When I said height as an example, it was just that.  One criteria.  Like most criteria to lump people into groups there are exceptions.  It is not set in stone.     Malik Rose played center for the Spurs at one time.  He was not a center even though he patrolled the paint and could score with his back to the basket because he was undersized.  Ben Wallace patrols the paint but doesn't have a real back to the basket game, so I don't consider him a true center.  Pau Gasol is a pretty effective face up jump shooter, not a traditional center.  Catch my drift yet?

Centers traditionally play and defend in the paint.  TD is a center, plain and simple.  Gasol is more of a PF but is also a "light" center.  Guys are just so much bigger at other positions, especially at the PF, that a traditional center like Gasol becomes a PF/C tweener.  Other PF/C tweeners IMO are guys like Memet Okur, JO, and Wallace.  They would definately be strait C's about a decade or two ago but with the new "mobile" big man, it seems the lines are getting blurred.

Lambier and Sikma.   

[Joe Vancil]

Well, if we're going to talk "Centers", then let's look at a few.

Dan Issel typically faced up, and even shot from the outside.  He was genearlly considered a center.

Bill Laimbeer ALWAYS faced up, and ALWAYS shot from the outside.  He was always considered a center.

Bill Cartwright had several face-up moves.  He was a center.

Will Perdue had no back to the basket post-game to speak of.  He was a center.

Alvan Adams was a face-up guy.  For most of his career, he was considered a center.

Wes Unseld played high post offensively.  He was considered a center.  Elvin Hayes played with his back to the basket.  He was the power forward.

Rony Seikally - center.  Sam Lacey - center.  James Edwards - mostly center.  Dave Robisch - center.  Mike Gminski - center.  Brad Miller - center.  Vlade Divac - center.

Buck Williams typically played with his back to the basket, and had good post moves.  He was a power forward.

Truck Robinson - power forward.  Mitch Kupchak - power forward.  Maurice Lucas - power forward.  Jerome Williams - power forward.  Bo Outlaw - power forward.

Pretty much amounts to which they WANT to be classified as.

[Joe Vancil]

Sikma is a tough one.  He was a power forward his first year - playing with Marvin Webster, and converted to center his second year, when Tommy LaGarde went down.  And he played center for the rest of his career - while being a face-up guy.

[westkoast]

Shouldn't centers ALWAYS at the very least guard the paint?

Half of those players you named don't do that and are far from the anchors on their defense.

Whereas guys like Bill Laimbeer, Bill Russell, Shaq, and the likes were always the ANCHOR.

[jemagee]

I think this could lead to  a larger discussion about the evolution of the basketball as being more well rounded and athletic and the 'traditional' definitions needing some adjustment?

[westkoast]

I think this could lead to  a larger discussion about the evolution of the basketball as being more well rounded and athletic and the 'traditional' definitions needing some adjustment?

No jem, that would make too much sense.

[jemagee]

I think this could lead to  a larger discussion about the evolution of the basketball as being more well rounded and athletic and the 'traditional' definitions needing some adjustment?

No jem, that would make too much sense.

Oddly/Coincidentally, a debate like this is kind of why i came up with the basketball journey idea in the first place, a place where 'both sides' can come and debate without anger - and present their views and maybe come to a common ground.

[WayOutWest]

I think this could lead to  a larger discussion about the evolution of the basketball as being more well rounded and athletic and the 'traditional' definitions needing some adjustment?

No jem, that would make too much sense.

Oddly/Coincidentally, a debate like this is kind of why i came up with the basketball journey idea in the first place, a place where 'both sides' can come and debate without anger - and present their views and maybe come to a common ground.

FYI Jem,

99% of the people on this board respect each other, we've been posting together for over 7 years and we bust each others balls like brothers.  There is no real anger around here 90% of the time, when someone like wk makes utterly stupid comments regarding centers being the exception.

[Joe Vancil]

Oddly/Coincidentally, a debate like this is kind of why i came up with the basketball journey idea in the first place, a place where 'both sides' can come and debate without anger - and present their views and maybe come to a common ground.

Hippie.

[jemagee]

99% of the people on this board respect each other, we've been posting together for over 7 years and we bust each others balls like brothers.  There is no real anger around here 90% of the time, when someone like wk makes utterly stupid comments regarding centers being the exception.

Well it's an idea i had before I came to this board, and a discussion like this about the 'evolution' of the position definitions is one of the topics i always thought was 'fertile' ground