Author Topic: The Bailout Defeat: A Political Credibility Crisis  (Read 11707 times)

jemagee

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Re: The Bailout Defeat: A Political Credibility Crisis
« Reply #30 on: September 30, 2008, 03:45:26 PM »
And I don't believe, no matter what anyone posts here, that if it were christmas anyone would give a flying frack if congress took a day off or two to honor christmas (and the birth of some dude who wasn't born even CLOSE to december 25th, but they had to get the pagans somehow didn't they?)

Offline WayOutWest

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Re: The Bailout Defeat: A Political Credibility Crisis
« Reply #31 on: September 30, 2008, 03:46:30 PM »
Don't sit around and try to be-little a Christian holiday then turn around to complain someone is doing the same to your religion.  One would think if you were expecting others to understand how important YOUR holidays are to you that you would know that Easter and Christmas are important to others.  Saying they worship a Christmas tree is like me saying Hannukah is nothing more then celebrating a candle holder.  How stupid does that sound?  Again I do not subscribe to organized religion but I wouldn't complain about someone putting down my holiday then turn around to do the same.

That's what I find funny about him, IMO he's a "checkers" mentality, post before you think, type.  He shyte's on everything and cries like a baby when something he cares about get's pooped on.  While I do my best to respect LD's requests about my language (because he's not a hypocrite about it) I have a hard time being careful around a blow hard.  I can't believe the loud mouth is getting butt hurt NOW.  :D 

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« Last Edit: September 30, 2008, 03:49:05 PM by WayOutWest »
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Offline westkoast

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Re: The Bailout Defeat: A Political Credibility Crisis
« Reply #32 on: September 30, 2008, 03:49:39 PM »
And I don't believe, no matter what anyone posts here, that if it were christmas anyone would give a flying frack if congress took a day off or two to honor christmas (and the birth of some dude who wasn't born even CLOSE to december 25th, but they had to get the pagans somehow didn't they?)


Once again what you hold to be true in fact is not.  You really are too old to be assuming that everything you say is a stone cold fact.  I don't care what day it is, they shouldn't be taking time off while such a serious matter is going on.

In fact I'll go one step further and say Christmas of all times shouldn't be when they should take off if something like this came up.  You honestly believe that I'd be okay with them taking time off to give their children presents bought with money the American people paid them with out doing their job?  You must be out of your mind.
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Offline Lurker

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Re: The Bailout Defeat: A Political Credibility Crisis
« Reply #33 on: September 30, 2008, 03:51:14 PM »
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Sorry, jemagee, but you are way off kilter here.  I have worked for Jewish bosses for over 25 years.  And these holidays (Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur) fall right in the middle of our busy season (CPAs).  October 15 is a major deadline and these individuals find a way to put in a honest day's work and still observe their holiday.  So now firefighters, police, emergency workers, etc should be able to take the day off for their religion?  Do we give Musluims a week off for Ramadan?  What makes our governmental leaders believe they can take this day off?  Do they give the day off to all other government workers?

Hmm....I had a jewish stepfather who was a CPA - so I probably know a little bit about it as well.

he took time to go to services on Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur and he wasn't the most observant of jews (in fact he was a self hating jew when you get right down to it)




That's my point....congressmen don't need until noon on Thursday to observe.  I'll even wager there is a synagouge or two in the DC area.  If they were really die hards they should have started at sundown last night.
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Offline Derek Bodner

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Re: The Bailout Defeat: A Political Credibility Crisis
« Reply #34 on: September 30, 2008, 03:53:21 PM »
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(and the birth of some dude who wasn't born even CLOSE to december 25th, but they had to get the pagans somehow didn't they?)

Actually, Christmas is celebrated on December 25th, because back during that time period new years was celebrated December 21st/22nd (solstice), and they celebrated it then to avoid persecution and pass it off as a new years celebration.

Not that it matters.  Coming from someone who himself has worked both christmas eve and christmas day, no, I would not be up in arms of 435 congressman had to suffer the grave misfortune of working christmas.

Offline WayOutWest

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Re: The Bailout Defeat: A Political Credibility Crisis
« Reply #35 on: September 30, 2008, 03:57:54 PM »
That's my point....congressmen don't need until noon on Thursday to observe.  I'll even wager there is a synagouge or two in the DC area.  If they were really die hards they should have started at sundown last night.

IMO all the Christian congress people would show up to work on XMas as long there wasn't a field sobriety test given at the door.  I was at work on Sept 16th and May 5th; and have been since I started working, unless it was on a weekend.  

Que pasa con estos pinches Euro's e sus pinches "religious holidays"?  Lurker, and 101, we need to get these pilgrams back on boats and send them back to the old-dirty-country they came from and tell them to take their God/Allah/Jehova with them!  Anybody up for a buffalo hunt this weekend?
"History shouldn't be a mystery"
"Our story is real history"
"Not his story"

"My people's culture was strong, it was pure"
"And if not for that white greed"
"It would've endured"

"Laker hate causes blindness"

Offline SPURSX3

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Re: The Bailout Defeat: A Political Credibility Crisis
« Reply #36 on: September 30, 2008, 04:01:16 PM »
That's my point....congressmen don't need until noon on Thursday to observe.  I'll even wager there is a synagouge or two in the DC area.  If they were really die hards they should have started at sundown last night.

IMO all the Christian congress people would show up to work on XMas as long there wasn't a field sobriety test given at the door.  I was at work on Sept 16th and May 5th; and have been since I started working, unless it was on a weekend.  

Que pasa con estos pinches Euro's e sus pinches "religious holidays"?  Lurker, and 101, we need to get these pilgrams back on boats and send them back to the old-dirty-country they came from and tell them to take their God/Allah/Jehova with them!  Anybody up for a buffalo hunt this weekend?

101???  he emails me every once in a while, have not seen him on the board in a long while....
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Offline WayOutWest

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Re: The Bailout Defeat: A Political Credibility Crisis
« Reply #37 on: September 30, 2008, 04:02:41 PM »
Actually, Christmas is celebrated on December 25th, because back during that time period new years was celebrated December 21st/22nd (solstice), and they celebrated it then to avoid persecution and pass it off as a new years celebration.

Not that it matters.  Coming from someone who himself has worked both christmas eve and christmas day, no, I would not be up in arms of 435 congressman had to suffer the grave misfortune of working christmas.

I have also worked on every major holiday at leat once over the years.  Plus I've been out of the city, state, country, hempisphere on more than one occasion on those days as well.  Nothing like celebrating Thanksgiving in Korea eathing some "baby chicken" soup.

Down south they used to celebrate Jan 6th, day of Kings.  That was the XMas for the little brown folks, they would give each other gifts to celebrate the three kings giving JC his gifts.  Although I don't ever remember anyone getting Frankensense (sic?) and Murr (sic?).  :D  
"History shouldn't be a mystery"
"Our story is real history"
"Not his story"

"My people's culture was strong, it was pure"
"And if not for that white greed"
"It would've endured"

"Laker hate causes blindness"

Offline WayOutWest

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Re: The Bailout Defeat: A Political Credibility Crisis
« Reply #38 on: September 30, 2008, 04:05:28 PM »
101???  he emails me every once in a while, have not seen him on the board in a long while....

You're right, I was thinking of SpursX3.  Yea, I have not seen Spurs101 in a long time.  You should ask him to drop in if you still have contact with him.  I see SpursX3 on Xbox-Live sometimes.  Despite being a Spurs fan, that's one thing I repect about him, he's not stupid or queer enough to be caught on Playstation III's game network.
"History shouldn't be a mystery"
"Our story is real history"
"Not his story"

"My people's culture was strong, it was pure"
"And if not for that white greed"
"It would've endured"

"Laker hate causes blindness"

Offline Laker Fan

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Re: The Bailout Defeat: A Political Credibility Crisis
« Reply #39 on: September 30, 2008, 04:05:37 PM »
Can one of you (zigs, lurker, lf, etc) answer this for me....

Is the problem people are worried about a credit squeeze for businesses or everyone in general?

If it's the later I would say it might be a good thing if it was harder for people to get credit extended to them.  Especially people who fall in my age range (20 and 30 year olds).  People are living above their means and the credit card companies are allowing them to do so.  If it's harder to get a credit card then Ben the OC Surfer guy can't go get rims for this 9 foot Ford F150.  He might actually have to save and then make the purchase.  People might actually think twice before making a purchase when all the money needs to be up front!  That sounds like a good idea to me.  While I know people will argue that 'oh it's that persons fault, they dont have to make the purchase' I agree 100%.  It is there fault.  Not everyone has will power and some people have to be FORCED to do things.  If they can't just whip out a new credit card to continue spending they would be forced to think twice.

Am I off base?





Everyone in general, businesses in particular, McDonalds for instance cannot get loans right now for new equipment and they are the most liquid large fast food company in the world, Sonic could not expand due to the credit crunch. College enrollments are down which is actually helping to lower tuition, and GM and Chrysler are going to miss their sales projections badly. You can't have one without the other 'Koast and as big as this is and as much as Wall St is hedging their bets that the government is going to ride to the rescue, (which will be a disaster like you can't believe) no one really knows how this will shake out.

I do know this, credit needs to be tightened up, but short term pain here is like ripping off a band-aid, it hurts but it will feel better faster if you just yank it off. To quote Shakespeare, "neither a lender nor a borrower be". While that is pie in the sky thinking in today's credit driven markets, it should certainly drive home the point to the consumer that there is a difference between a "need" and a "want", DO NOT EXTEND YOURSELF FOR A WANT!
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Offline Lurker

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Re: The Bailout Defeat: A Political Credibility Crisis
« Reply #40 on: September 30, 2008, 04:20:35 PM »
Can one of you (zigs, lurker, lf, etc) answer this for me....

Is the problem people are worried about a credit squeeze for businesses or everyone in general?

If it's the later I would say it might be a good thing if it was harder for people to get credit extended to them.  Especially people who fall in my age range (20 and 30 year olds).  People are living above their means and the credit card companies are allowing them to do so.  If it's harder to get a credit card then Ben the OC Surfer guy can't go get rims for this 9 foot Ford F150.  He might actually have to save and then make the purchase.  People might actually think twice before making a purchase when all the money needs to be up front!  That sounds like a good idea to me.  While I know people will argue that 'oh it's that persons fault, they dont have to make the purchase' I agree 100%.  It is there fault.  Not everyone has will power and some people have to be FORCED to do things.  If they can't just whip out a new credit card to continue spending they would be forced to think twice.

Am I off base?





Everyone in general, businesses in particular, McDonalds for instance cannot get loans right now for new equipment and they are the most liquid large fast food company in the world, Sonic could not expand due to the credit crunch. College enrollments are down which is actually helping to lower tuition, and GM and Chrysler are going to miss their sales projections badly. You can't have one without the other 'Koast and as big as this is and as much as Wall St is hedging their bets that the government is going to ride to the rescue, (which will be a disaster like you can't believe) no one really knows how this will shake out.

I do know this, credit needs to be tightened up, but short term pain here is like ripping off a band-aid, it hurts but it will feel better faster if you just yank it off. To quote Shakespeare, "neither a lender nor a borrower be". While that is pie in the sky thinking in today's credit driven markets, it should certainly drive home the point to the consumer that there is a difference between a "need" and a "want", DO NOT EXTEND YOURSELF FOR A WANT!


LF is basically right.  Solid credit risks can access debt albeit at slightly higher rates.  Marginal credit risks have to pay a much higher premiuim in rates than before.  Questionable credit risks are SOL....as they should have been all along.

I also read where non-financial institutions are currently holding over $1 trillion in cash on their balance sheets (think Exxon, Microsoft, WalMart, etc.).  The problem is not a lack of liquidity; the problem is no one wants to pay the going interest rate on the money.  The big boys (global financial institutions) don't want to lend to each other at 2-4%.  This is the LIBOR rate...what banks charge each for overnight loans.  This rate has spiked to close to 7% and the problem is that the borrowers don't want to pay that so they want the world central banks to flush the system with excess liquidity so that the rates will go down (basic supply and demand...if there is more supply then the rates will decrease).
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Offline SPURSX3

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Re: The Bailout Defeat: A Political Credibility Crisis
« Reply #41 on: September 30, 2008, 04:32:29 PM »
101???  he emails me every once in a while, have not seen him on the board in a long while....

You're right, I was thinking of SpursX3.  Yea, I have not seen Spurs101 in a long time.  You should ask him to drop in if you still have contact with him.  I see SpursX3 on Xbox-Live sometimes.  Despite being a Spurs fan, that's one thing I repect about him, he's not stupid or queer enough to be caught on Playstation III's game network.

arse!   :P
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Offline westkoast

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Re: The Bailout Defeat: A Political Credibility Crisis
« Reply #42 on: September 30, 2008, 04:56:27 PM »
101???  he emails me every once in a while, have not seen him on the board in a long while....

You're right, I was thinking of SpursX3.  Yea, I have not seen Spurs101 in a long time.  You should ask him to drop in if you still have contact with him.  I see SpursX3 on Xbox-Live sometimes.  Despite being a Spurs fan, that's one thing I repect about him, he's not stupid or queer enough to be caught on Playstation III's game network.

So what your saying is your in the closet because you have a ps3 and do go on to make sure no one else is on the network?
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Offline Reality

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Re: The Bailout Defeat: A Political Credibility Crisis
« Reply #43 on: September 30, 2008, 05:02:52 PM »
Quote
(and the birth of some dude who wasn't born even CLOSE to december 25th, but they had to get the pagans somehow didn't they?)

Actually, Christmas is celebrated on December 25th, because back during that time period new years was celebrated December 21st/22nd (solstice), and they celebrated it then to avoid persecution and pass it off as a new years celebration.

Not that it matters.  Coming from someone who himself has worked both christmas eve and christmas day, no, I would not be up in arms of 435 congressman had to suffer the grave misfortune of working christmas.
further:  (and could someone tell me again how to eliminate the question marks upon transfer?.  Yes WoW, your technological skills are much more superior to mine.)
The Encyclopedia Americana informs us:  The reason for establishing December 25 as Christmas is somewhat obscure, but it is usually held that the day was chosen to correspond to pagan festivals that took place around the time of the winter solstice, when the days begin to lengthen, to celebrate the rebirth of the sun. . . . The Roman Saturnalia (a festival dedicated to Saturn, the god of agriculture, and to the renewed power of the sun), also took place at this time, and some Christmas customs are thought to be rooted in this ancient pagan celebration.  (1977), Vol. 6, p. 666.

In the book Celebrations, by Robert J. Myers, we read: ?The Biblical narrative of the birth of Jesus contains no indication of the date that the event occurred. However, Luke?s report [Luke 2:8] that the shepherds were ?abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flocks by night? suggests that Jesus may have been born in summer or early fall. Since December is cold and rainy in Judea, it is likely the shepherds would have sought shelter for their flocks at night.?

In Daily Life in the Time of Jesus, by Henri Daniel-Rops, we are similarly told: ?The flocks . . . passed the winter under cover; and from this alone it may be seen that the traditional date for Christmas, in the winter, is unlikely to be right, since the Gospel says that the shepherds were in the fields.?

The Encyclopedia Americana says of December 25: ?This date was not set in the West until about the middle of the 4th century and in the East until about a century later.? Thus, Jesus was not born on that date. And he did not authorize the celebration of Christmas; neither did his disciples or the Bible writers.

Where Did It Originate?
Where, then, did Christmas originate? On this, there is general agreement. U.S. Catholic states: ?It is impossible to separate Christmas from its pagan origins.? It adds: ?The Romans? favorite festival was Saturnalia, which began on December 17 and ended with the ?birthday of the unconquered sun? (Natalis solis invicti) on December 25. Somewhere in the second quarter of the fourth century, savvy officials of the church of Rome decided December 25 would make a dandy day to celebrate the birthday of the ?sun of righteousness.? Christmas was born.?

The pagan celebration of Saturnalia took place at the winter solstice. The word ?solstice? comes from two Latin words: sol (the name of a sun god) and sistere (to stop). The winter solstice is the time when the daylight hours stop getting shorter and instead begin to get longer. According to the ancient Julian calendar, the day of the winter solstice was December 25.

Thus, The World Book Encyclopedia states: ?This celebration [Christmas] was probably influenced by pagan (unchristian) festivals held at that time. The ancient Romans held year-end celebrations to honor Saturn, their harvest god; and Mithras [the sun god].? The New Catholic Encyclopedia says: ?On Dec. 25, 274, [Roman emperor] Aurelian had proclaimed the sun-god [Mithras] principal patron of the empire . . . Christmas originated at a time when the cult of the sun was particularly strong at Rome.? The book Celebrations states: ?The clergy eventually brought the . . . world of the Saturnalia into the Church itself.? And the Encyclop?dia Britannica notes that December 25 was regarded ?as the birth date of the . . . [sun] god Mithra.?

Most of the customs associated with Christmas?the yule log, mistletoe, Christmas tree, Santa Claus, lavish gift giving, revelries?are also rooted in paganism. They have nothing to do with Christ. As James Hastings states in Encyclop?dia of Religion and Ethics: ?Most of the Christmas customs now prevailing . . . are not genuine Christian customs, but heathen customs which have been absorbed or tolerated by the Church. . . . The Saturnalia in Rome provided the model for most of the merry customs of the Christmas time. This old Roman feast was celebrated on 17-24 December.?

So when at times we hear people say: ?Let?s get back to the true meaning of Christmas? or, ?Put Christ back into Christmas,? keep in mind that the original meaning of Christmas is a pagan celebration of nature, and that Christ never was in Christmas. And when some denounce the commercializing of Christmas, keep in mind that the feasting and gift giving of the Saturnalia celebration meant business for merchants. So for thousands of years, the winter solstice has been commercialized.

In 1643, England?s Parliament even outlawed Christmas because of its pagan background, but later it was restored. In 1659, it was also outlawed in Massachusetts, but there too it was later restored. And U.S. Catholic reports: ?Because Christians in the U.S. . . . associated Christmas with pagan customs, they didn?t celebrate Christmas in a big way until the mid-19th century.?
« Last Edit: September 30, 2008, 05:05:18 PM by Reality »

Offline westkoast

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Re: The Bailout Defeat: A Political Credibility Crisis
« Reply #44 on: September 30, 2008, 05:11:24 PM »
Not to get into this much further in fear of making a few posters here mad the sun also "dies" or drops to the lowest point in the sky on the 22nd.  It rises 3 days later and starts to climb back up to a higher location in the sky slowly.  Everyone else can put 2 and 2 together here....
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