Author Topic: The Bailout Defeat: A Political Credibility Crisis  (Read 11621 times)

Offline westkoast

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Re: The Bailout Defeat: A Political Credibility Crisis
« Reply #15 on: September 30, 2008, 02:04:38 PM »
Was it a religious holiday in Iraq in AUgust?

Doesn't matter because its not a religious holiday for 90% of congress
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Re: The Bailout Defeat: A Political Credibility Crisis
« Reply #16 on: September 30, 2008, 02:06:06 PM »
Was it a religious holiday in Iraq in AUgust?

Doesn't matter because its not a religious holiday for 90% of congress

So, if a vote was called you'd just say 'screw the observant jewish congress man, who cares if it's their highest holiday of the year"

Would you expect congress to work on Christmas if it was december instead of September or at least the jewish ones?

Offline ziggy

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Re: The Bailout Defeat: A Political Credibility Crisis
« Reply #17 on: September 30, 2008, 02:10:33 PM »
I believe that we need to do something, but I like many people resent having a figurative gun placed to my head, and have them tell me "do this or a cataclysm will occur", while not really explaining why "this particular plan" is the only option.  I believe there are many options.  We are not in the same situation as the 1930's because the Fed learned from their mistakes.  There is lots and lots of liquidity, just incredible risk aversion, keep the liquidity out of the market.  Deal with the risk aversion, and the liquidity will return to the market.  Once the liquidity returns, Armageddon will be held off.

One thing I have to say though is the hyperbole that is going on.  I was listening to O'Rielly last night on the drive home.  He had some finance reporter on and she was going on and on about the potential cataclysm that was about to befall us because of the failed vote.  Bill says in his typical way "so what do we tell the folks, what can they do to protect themselves?"  She comes back with, "look Warren Buffet just bought a huge stake in Goldman.  He is a smart guy, made billions.  This is a good buying opportunity".  I thought to myself WTF.  What a pile of s&!t.  I was watching Larry Kudlow, and I actually think Kudlow is a sharp guy with a clue.  He says, after he and a bunch of others are going on about the end of the world, "well maybe we need to just do some smaller steps for the next 3-4 months, and then let the new Congress step in with a bigger fix".  What is it???

We can find a reasonable solution to this, and it doesn't have to be sold as Do it or Armageddon is Next.


Found this at
http://stefanmikarlsson.blogspot.com/

While this development has gone unnoticed in the "mainstream" financial media, some Austrian-leaning commentators have recently made a big deal of the recent massive surge in U.S. bank reserves and therefore also by extension the Fed balance sheet and the monetary base.

Between the two weeks ending September 10 and the two weeks ending September 24, the monetary base rose from $843.8 billion to $911.4 billion. Although a small part of that increase reflected an increase in currency in circulation, the overwhelming majority of it reflected higher bank reserves.

Looking at the more frequently update data on the Fed balance sheet, it appears that even these numbers underestimate the surge because they are two week averages. If we look at week averages and end of week levels, then the increase is even more dramatic than that.

As is apparent by the explanatory text inserted in the top of both the Monetary base and the Fed balance sheet statistics pages, the reason for this surge is the various schemes the Fed now uses to try to aid banks.

How much does this matter then? Not necessarily as much as some people think. As I've explained before, the monetary base is in itself unimportant for the economy. What matters is instead money supply, so unless the higher monetary base causes money supply to rise, it will have no impact on the economy.

However, to the extent this in fact causes money supply to rise, it will have an impact on the economy. And given the fact that banks usually don't like holding excess reserves, there is every reason to believe that at least some of the increase in reserves will be used to expand bank balance sheets, which in turn will likely cause money supply to rise. The general distress these days will however likely mean that banks will in fact hold some excess reserves, limiting the short-term effect on money supply. The general distress itself will also make banks more reluctant to lend, and the general public also more reluctant to borrow, which will also have a deflationary effect.

Just what the net effect of these two counteracting forces, the inflationary effect of the Fed schemes and the deflationary effect of the general financial distress, will be remains to be seen. I will keep a close look on coming money supply and bank credit releases. The latest bank credit release BTW featured a massive surge in bank credit. Bank credit contracted between March and June this year, but started to slowly recover after June, and in the week to September 17 it then suddenly surged by $134 billion, or nearly 1.5% in just a week. That could be just a temporary spike, but it may also be an effect of the inflationary Fed schemes. Again, we should watch coming releases to see whether this was just an erratic spike or whether it indicates that the Fed is successful in their attempt to create inflation.
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Offline westkoast

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Re: The Bailout Defeat: A Political Credibility Crisis
« Reply #18 on: September 30, 2008, 02:11:53 PM »
Was it a religious holiday in Iraq in AUgust?

Doesn't matter because its not a religious holiday for 90% of congress

So, if a vote was called you'd just say 'screw the observant jewish congress man, who cares if it's their highest holiday of the year"

Would you expect congress to work on Christmas if it was december instead of September or at least the jewish ones?


I would expect congress to work on Christmas if the US economy is as bad as they are all saying it is.  Millions of Americans are asked to work on holidays, birthdays, special events, etc.  You are not outraged when I have to work on Thanksgiving to get something out, why would you be outraged that I think they should focus in on the issue at hand?

Sorry but if your job is public service then it only makes sense you put the public's needs on this scale ahead of drinking egg nog on X-mas or observing a jewish holiday such as this one.
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Re: The Bailout Defeat: A Political Credibility Crisis
« Reply #19 on: September 30, 2008, 02:20:58 PM »
Quote
Sorry but if your job is public service then it only makes sense you put the public's needs on this scale ahead of drinking egg nog on X-mas or observing a jewish holiday such as this one.

What do you know about the holiday 'such as this one', and its importance in Judaism as both a religion and a culture.  We don't commercialize our holidays (except for Channukah and that was just to keep whiny kids quiet)...this is one of the highest of our holidays...and for those who choose to observe it, it's not sitting around drinking egg nog, or eating turkey, or worshipping a pagan tree incorporated in to our religion 300 years after creation to try and save it.  THe major christian holidays are marketing holidays these days, they aren't about religion or faith, they are about commercialism and whatever...compring rosh hashannah to what christmas and easter have become is just silly.  Not to mention the national recognition that these christian (part pagan) holidays get.  The average american has no clue what these holidays (Rosh Hashannah and Yom Kippur are) nor do they realize the importance....they think hannukah is important because it falls around christmas...hopefully you know a bit more than the people on another board who thought shawn green was being selfish for taking one day off during yom kippur to observe the holiday (of course ssome of said people thought it was a made up holiday and that judaism wasn't even a real religion any more)

I'm not going to debate this topic any more, because it's a sore spot for me, aggravated already by some inherently anti semitic statements made yesterday (intentional or not) by another poster.

Apropos of nothing, what is weirder

California having two female senators
Wisconsin having two jewish senators



Offline SPURSX3

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Re: The Bailout Defeat: A Political Credibility Crisis
« Reply #20 on: September 30, 2008, 02:22:16 PM »
Was it a religious holiday in Iraq in AUgust?

Doesn't matter because its not a religious holiday for 90% of congress

So, if a vote was called you'd just say 'screw the observant jewish congress man, who cares if it's their highest holiday of the year"

Would you expect congress to work on Christmas if it was december instead of September or at least the jewish ones?


I would expect congress to work on Christmas if the US economy is as bad as they are all saying it is.  Millions of Americans are asked to work on holidays, birthdays, special events, etc.  You are not outraged when I have to work on Thanksgiving to get something out, why would you be outraged that I think they should focus in on the issue at hand?

Sorry but if your job is public service then it only makes sense you put the public's needs on this scale ahead of drinking egg nog on X-mas or observing a jewish holiday such as this one.

can somebody start a viral "GET YOUR @$$ BACK TO WORK!!!" campaign?  maybe that would get their attention   ;)
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Offline Lurker

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Re: The Bailout Defeat: A Political Credibility Crisis
« Reply #21 on: September 30, 2008, 03:11:05 PM »
Quote
Sorry but if your job is public service then it only makes sense you put the public's needs on this scale ahead of drinking egg nog on X-mas or observing a jewish holiday such as this one.

What do you know about the holiday 'such as this one', and its importance in Judaism as both a religion and a culture.  We don't commercialize our holidays (except for Channukah and that was just to keep whiny kids quiet)...this is one of the highest of our holidays...and for those who choose to observe it, it's not sitting around drinking egg nog, or eating turkey, or worshipping a pagan tree incorporated in to our religion 300 years after creation to try and save it.  THe major christian holidays are marketing holidays these days, they aren't about religion or faith, they are about commercialism and whatever...compring rosh hashannah to what christmas and easter have become is just silly.  Not to mention the national recognition that these christian (part pagan) holidays get.  The average american has no clue what these holidays (Rosh Hashannah and Yom Kippur are) nor do they realize the importance....they think hannukah is important because it falls around christmas...hopefully you know a bit more than the people on another board who thought shawn green was being selfish for taking one day off during yom kippur to observe the holiday (of course ssome of said people thought it was a made up holiday and that judaism wasn't even a real religion any more)

I'm not going to debate this topic any more, because it's a sore spot for me, aggravated already by some inherently anti semitic statements made yesterday (intentional or not) by another poster.

Apropos of nothing, what is weirder

California having two female senators
Wisconsin having two jewish senators




Sorry, jemagee, but you are way off kilter here.  I have worked for Jewish bosses for over 25 years.  And these holidays (Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur) fall right in the middle of our busy season (CPAs).  October 15 is a major deadline and these individuals find a way to put in a honest day's work and still observe their holiday.  So now firefighters, police, emergency workers, etc should be able to take the day off for their religion?  Do we give Musluims a week off for Ramadan?  What makes our governmental leaders believe they can take this day off?  Do they give the day off to all other government workers?

If this crisis is truly as major as many would have us believe...and I do believe it is serious...then our representatives need to put all the BS behind them, roll up their sleeves and get their frickkin' butts back to work.

And I don't give a damn what religion, sex, party or whether they are even aliens...they ran for one job: to run our country.  So do your damn job!
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Offline Lurker

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Re: The Bailout Defeat: A Political Credibility Crisis
« Reply #22 on: September 30, 2008, 03:21:35 PM »

Found this at
http://stefanmikarlsson.blogspot.com/

While this development has gone unnoticed in the "mainstream" financial media, some Austrian-leaning commentators have recently made a big deal of the recent massive surge in U.S. bank reserves and therefore also by extension the Fed balance sheet and the monetary base.

Between the two weeks ending September 10 and the two weeks ending September 24, the monetary base rose from $843.8 billion to $911.4 billion. Although a small part of that increase reflected an increase in currency in circulation, the overwhelming majority of it reflected higher bank reserves.

Looking at the more frequently update data on the Fed balance sheet, it appears that even these numbers underestimate the surge because they are two week averages. If we look at week averages and end of week levels, then the increase is even more dramatic than that.

As is apparent by the explanatory text inserted in the top of both the Monetary base and the Fed balance sheet statistics pages, the reason for this surge is the various schemes the Fed now uses to try to aid banks.

How much does this matter then? Not necessarily as much as some people think. As I've explained before, the monetary base is in itself unimportant for the economy. What matters is instead money supply, so unless the higher monetary base causes money supply to rise, it will have no impact on the economy.

However, to the extent this in fact causes money supply to rise, it will have an impact on the economy. And given the fact that banks usually don't like holding excess reserves, there is every reason to believe that at least some of the increase in reserves will be used to expand bank balance sheets, which in turn will likely cause money supply to rise. The general distress these days will however likely mean that banks will in fact hold some excess reserves, limiting the short-term effect on money supply. The general distress itself will also make banks more reluctant to lend, and the general public also more reluctant to borrow, which will also have a deflationary effect.

Just what the net effect of these two counteracting forces, the inflationary effect of the Fed schemes and the deflationary effect of the general financial distress, will be remains to be seen. I will keep a close look on coming money supply and bank credit releases. The latest bank credit release BTW featured a massive surge in bank credit. Bank credit contracted between March and June this year, but started to slowly recover after June, and in the week to September 17 it then suddenly surged by $134 billion, or nearly 1.5% in just a week. That could be just a temporary spike, but it may also be an effect of the inflationary Fed schemes. Again, we should watch coming releases to see whether this was just an erratic spike or whether it indicates that the Fed is successful in their attempt to create inflation.

Also yesterday the Fed tripled...from $75 billion to $225 billion...the amount of money available at its 84-day window.  Or in layman terms - the Fed just made an additional $150 billion available for liquidity.  They also infused over $600 billion into the world wide banking system.  But all this was swept under the rug with the bailout "failure".

One of the things that Obama/McCain are now calling for...the increase in FDIC insurance limits...might have saved WaMu.  It was reported that the reason the FDIC "sold" this to Chase was a run on the bank.  But what wasn't widely reported is that the majority of the run was from people trying to get their accounts under the $100,000 insurance limit.  It wasn't that the bank was really in line to fail but that accounting rules (mark to market) and government regulation (banking reserves) worked in tandem to make the bank appear a lot weaker than it actually was.  Then the panic driven withdrawals pushed it past the regulatory threshhold for "failure".
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Offline westkoast

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Re: The Bailout Defeat: A Political Credibility Crisis
« Reply #23 on: September 30, 2008, 03:28:14 PM »
Quote
What do you know about the holiday 'such as this one', and its importance in Judaism as both a religion and a culture.  We don't commercialize our holidays (except for Channukah and that was just to keep whiny kids quiet)

I know that it is not more important then a financial crisis, that's for sure.  As if other people who practice Judaism in other jobs don't ever go through having to work during a holiday to get something finished?  It has nothing to do with what you feel about other religions and everything to do with the fact they get paid large sums of money to steer this country.  The boat is heading for an iceberg that could put a huge gash in the ship and you want them to go below the decks?  Not me!

I myself am not Christian so save throwing Christian holidays in my face as if I would actually care personally....tho I do see the irony in the next paragraph and will address it.

Quote
...this is one of the highest of our holidays...and for those who choose to observe it, it's not sitting around drinking egg nog, or eating turkey, or worshipping a pagan tree incorporated in to our religion 300 years after creation to try and save it.  THe major christian holidays are marketing holidays these days, they aren't about religion or faith, they are about commercialism and whatever...compring rosh hashannah to what christmas and easter have become is just silly.  Not to mention the national recognition that these christian (part pagan) holidays get.  The average american has no clue what these holidays (Rosh Hashannah and Yom Kippur are) nor do they realize the importance....they think hannukah is important because it falls around christmas...hopefully you know a bit more than the people on another board who thought shawn green was being selfish for taking one day off during yom kippur to observe the holiday (of course ssome of said people thought it was a made up holiday and that judaism wasn't even a real religion any more)

While I am not saying those holidays are not important....they are not more important than the issue at hand.  If this was for other bills/laws then yea of course, observe your holiday.  This is much bigger then that.  Especially if they plan to take money out of my pocket.  Money that I will have to replace since I don't have endless amounts of money to throw around.  Hell, I might actually have to work on a holiday I feel is very important to my family (Thanksgiving) next year to make additional money.

Don't sit around and try to be-little a Christian holiday then turn around to complain someone is doing the same to your religion.  One would think if you were expecting others to understand how important YOUR holidays are to you that you would know that Easter and Christmas are important to others.  Saying they worship a Christmas tree is like me saying Hannukah is nothing more then celebrating a candle holder.  How stupid does that sound?  Again I do not subscribe to organized religion but I wouldn't complain about someone putting down my holiday then turn around to do the same.

Quote
I'm not going to debate this topic any more, because it's a sore spot for me, aggravated already by some inherently anti semitic statements made yesterday (intentional or not) by another poster.

There is nothing to debate IMO.  They have a job to do and there shouldn't be any time taken off at this point.  I think the man upstairs for any religion wouldn't smite a follower for trying to help out his fellow man in his country.

Why would California having two female senators be funny or ironic in anyway?
« Last Edit: September 30, 2008, 03:33:51 PM by westkoast »
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Offline WayOutWest

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Re: The Bailout Defeat: A Political Credibility Crisis
« Reply #24 on: September 30, 2008, 03:31:43 PM »
Sorry, jemagee, but you are way off kilter here.  I have worked for Jewish bosses for over 25 years.  And these holidays (Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur) fall right in the middle of our busy season (CPAs).  October 15 is a major deadline and these individuals find a way to put in a honest day's work and still observe their holiday.  So now firefighters, police, emergency workers, etc should be able to take the day off for their religion?  Do we give Musluims a week off for Ramadan?  What makes our governmental leaders believe they can take this day off?  Do they give the day off to all other government workers?

If this crisis is truly as major as many would have us believe...and I do believe it is serious...then our representatives need to put all the BS behind them, roll up their sleeves and get their frickkin' butts back to work.

And I don't give a damn what religion, sex, party or whether they are even aliens...they ran for one job: to run our country.  So do your damn job!

Right on brown brother! I can't stand the "persecuted" card.  I'm of the "I'm not rich enough to say fugg off" religion so I have to work whenever there is a "crisis".  I don't have some "invisible guy in the sky" excuse to weasel out of work.  I love how EVERY religion has a "God time" that is so scared yet they live "dirty dirty" the rest of the year.  Today is a day every Jew tries to out-Jew his neighbor, kind of like Catholics and knowing the most "chants" at a wake or who can strap the biggest bomb to their chest during Ramadan.   :D  Seperation of what and what?  How does that go again?  I gues all the IPU's should also get days off?  I think I will petition an "every other Friday" made up "SACRED" holiday for all IPU members!  WOOHOOO!!!  PAH TEE!
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Offline Lurker

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Re: The Bailout Defeat: A Political Credibility Crisis
« Reply #25 on: September 30, 2008, 03:33:31 PM »
Why would California having two female senators be funny or ironic in anyway?

I was wondering that also.

Something more ironic is that Texas has the highest ranking female senator (#3 in command) and she is republican.  Rumor is she told McCain to stick it when asked to be his running mate.

Sometimes this redneck state even surprises me.
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Re: The Bailout Defeat: A Political Credibility Crisis
« Reply #26 on: September 30, 2008, 03:36:51 PM »
I worked at a datacenter with my last job.  We had to have staff there 24/7, 365, from front line technical support to sysadmins and everything inbetween.  I have worked christmas, new years eve, new years day, thanksgiving, and every major holiday in my life.

If friggin technical support representative can work on a holiday, then a congressman can work on a holiday in a crisis, regardless of whether it's a christian holiday, jewish holiday, or goddamn festivus for the rest of us.

Offline Laker Fan

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Re: The Bailout Defeat: A Political Credibility Crisis
« Reply #27 on: September 30, 2008, 03:38:15 PM »
Another take on "the sky is falling"...posted yesterday after the failed bailout.  Bolding is mine...

Quote
As expected, markets have gone ape over the failed vote.

Stocks and commodities took quite a hit; bonds, both government and otherwise, rallied strongly.

Right now everybody is looking around to see whether the Fat Lady is warming up her pipes. At that point, we?re all doomed.

But doomed from what?

So far we?ve had 13 FDIC banks go bust. That?s not a good thing, but it isn?t the end of days.

And, sure, the brokerage landscape has changed dramatically since Lehman Brothers bust, while its brethren opted for mergers or the relative safety of a commercial bank charter.

Meanwhile, consolidation continues among the nation?s largest banks and thrifts. Washington Mutual is on its way into the hands JP Morgan Chase. Wachovia is headed to the big city with Citibank. And there will be plenty of others that will meet similar fates.

And getting these deals done didn?t require this massive bailout legislation. Instead, the existing powers of the US Treasury and the Fed have been used to either swallow some of the bad assets and/or provide some credit insurance of their own devising.

On the other side, the institutions making these bargain acquisitions had little difficulty raising addition capital, despite all the hang-wringing occurring on Capitol Hill or in the financial media.

Yes, there will be more workouts. Yes, we should expect several more FDIC seizures and sales of bad banks beyond the official 13 this year and beyond the workouts like the Wachovia deal.

To pay for this, Congress will have to authorize about $50 to $150 billion in additional funding for the FDIC--a move that no one will likely oppose.

At the core, the banking and financial system still very much works.

Beyond the workouts of bad banks and brokers, the Federal Reserve announced that it will inject a further $630 billion into the global financial system.

This is what the Fed does. It can accept just about anything as collateral, including so-called toxic assets. And it?s working with several other major central banks to work to keep the cash flowing throughout member banks and their counterparties.

But what?s currently working has fallen by the wayside because it?s easier whine and moan over the failed bailout bill.

The bailout bill would not have been the panacea or the silver bullet, but instead could have resulted in a world of additional near-term and long-term challenges for the markets and the economy.

Stocks are down. And traders will keep trying to make a buck by making more trades and trying to whip up more volatility; that?s their game and, of course, their stock in trade.

The stocks and partnerships that we hold are in solid business shape. They?re not immune to a selloff or a complete elimination of credit, but they will realistically keep churning out revenues and paying us.

But bonds are working and will keep working.

Some of our bond funds and mini-bonds will be subject to the vagaries of the stock market--that?s unavoidable. But the bottom line for bonds is that they will keep the cash coming to you.

Do not get swept up in all of the mania over an impending depression. Do not sell everything in a panic.

Instead, stick with the bonds, quality companies and partnerships that we will keep vetting over the coming days, weeks and months
.



Excellent article Lurker, one I believe hits the nail on the head in terms of what I think need to be done, which is essentially NOTHING. I am not even a great fan of buying the mortgages in danger although that is certainly more palatable than the crap sandwich they're trying to force-feed everyone now. My reasoning is this:

Poorly run companies fail, that is business, high risk business practices sometimes bite you in the posterior, THAT IS BUSINESS! This article points out what I have been saying all along, markets will adjust, banks in the poorly run category will be absorbed, at pennies on the dollar for the bad paper but IT HAPPENS ALL THE TIME, just never quite on this scale, it will hurt, it will put some people in the poorhouse, it SHOULD put some people in jail, but lending will continue, albeit at a MUCH, MUCH tighter rate than it is now. This is in no way shape or form a bad thing, reason? IMO credit has been faaaar too loose for several years now, anyone who could walk could buy a house or a car with virtually no ID, no provable income, and no verification of immigration status, again I cite the CRA and Clinton's pressure on Fanny and Freddie as part of that problem, this simply could not continue and all the bad paper these clowns underwrote or bought is precisely the reason I or anyone else with half a brain would call them bad companies that deserve to fail. Credit should be tight, you should have to prove who you are and how much you make and how timely you are in paying your bills, it protects the lenders, their stock holders, and ultimately the borrower himself from becoming overextended which has been far too easy to do for years now, it is the only way the market can remain stable.

As far as buying up the bad mortgages, as I said, that is far easier to swallow than this mind numbingly STUPID alternative. Think about it, at any given point in normal financial circumstances, anywhere between 3/4-1% of home mortgages are in default, rarely even the 1%. Currently this mortgage "crisis" is showing roughly 5% in default with another 2-3% on shaky ground, That is bad, but it is not sky is falling bad, and it is certainly not 700 billion dollars bad, and this is where people get lost, they think that money is rescuing people who are losing their homes, no such promise has ever been made and home in foreclosure will remain there to my understanding, this is governmental socializing of banking (bad banking or socializing failure if you will) and buying up of bad paper and real property that the government will then try to resell to recoup some of that money. At its height, foreclosures during the Depression were quite a bit higher (15-18%) and the New Deal extended the damage for year beyond the initial shock, anything beyond just buying up these mortgages will do the same thing and only encourage greater risk taking. People who bought homes they KNEW they could not afford should lose those homes, they couldn?t afford them anyway and those who employed predatory lending practices which in many situations were illegal in the first place should be behind bars, not expecting this big bailout package to protect them from their own crimes, it is THE ONLY WAY housing will readjust itself, and it must do it itself. If the government buys these mortgages with the intent of re-selling the asset, it is not a completely bad thing although short term it will drive real property values lower because government auction ALWAYS have that effect, especially on this scale. My point is, 95% of homeowners PAY THEIR MORTGAGES ON TIME, the situation is bad, but not critical mass, at least not yet.

Financial wizards need to be working this out rather than these morons in the government, in the panic of 1907, at the governments request, JP Morgan and his brain trust put all the Wall St bankers in a room and ironed out a series of mergers, buyouts and streamlined their operations and saved them from themselves and worse yet, government interference, Why aren't Warren Buffet and his type being tapped to analyze the problem today? Because government wants to control banking and anything else they can, it is what they do, and since when has a government run system EVER been run efficiently? One this big? NEVER.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2008, 03:41:10 PM by Laker Fan »
Dan

Offline westkoast

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Re: The Bailout Defeat: A Political Credibility Crisis
« Reply #28 on: September 30, 2008, 03:42:45 PM »
Can one of you (zigs, lurker, lf, etc) answer this for me....

Is the problem people are worried about a credit squeeze for businesses or everyone in general?

If it's the later I would say it might be a good thing if it was harder for people to get credit extended to them.  Especially people who fall in my age range (20 and 30 year olds).  People are living above their means and the credit card companies are allowing them to do so.  If it's harder to get a credit card then Ben the OC Surfer guy can't go get rims for this 9 foot Ford F150.  He might actually have to save and then make the purchase.  People might actually think twice before making a purchase when all the money needs to be up front!  That sounds like a good idea to me.  While I know people will argue that 'oh it's that persons fault, they dont have to make the purchase' I agree 100%.  It is there fault.  Not everyone has will power and some people have to be FORCED to do things.  If they can't just whip out a new credit card to continue spending they would be forced to think twice.

Am I off base?
« Last Edit: September 30, 2008, 03:44:53 PM by westkoast »
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jemagee

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Re: The Bailout Defeat: A Political Credibility Crisis
« Reply #29 on: September 30, 2008, 03:44:20 PM »
Quote
Sorry, jemagee, but you are way off kilter here.  I have worked for Jewish bosses for over 25 years.  And these holidays (Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur) fall right in the middle of our busy season (CPAs).  October 15 is a major deadline and these individuals find a way to put in a honest day's work and still observe their holiday.  So now firefighters, police, emergency workers, etc should be able to take the day off for their religion?  Do we give Musluims a week off for Ramadan?  What makes our governmental leaders believe they can take this day off?  Do they give the day off to all other government workers?

Hmm....I had a jewish stepfather who was a CPA - so I probably know a little bit about it as well.

he took time to go to services on Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur and he wasn't the most observant of jews (in fact he was a self hating jew when you get right down to it)