Another Stoudamire a Spur

[westkoast]

The Google Android OS looks cool and they have a bunch of cool apps for it already but since its not the IPHONE its going to get negative reviews.

No, it's going to be compared to the iPhone, and if it suffers in comparison, that's not Apples fault.  So it's not a phone but an operating system, so again, not really a comparison to the iphone?

Why wouldn't it be Apple's fault?  Their product is not flawless.  It's alright but leaves a lot to be desired IMO.   The marketing is really good tho.  You can argue any way you want but their marketing is why the IPOD is what people compare all other MP3 players to but it's not the best one.  Same deal here.

It's not a phone they are making.  They are leaving that up to people who can make them.  It's the operating system that runs on the phone.  The IPHONE itself is "cool" because of the operating system that runs on it moreso then the hardware.  Touch screens have been in cell phones for a really long time now so it's not the hardware.  The Android OS is a touch screen based OS that shares similarities to what people think is cool about the IPHONE so it's going to be a direct competitor.  The only other company that can come close to Apple in the 'coolness/hip' department is Google.  There are other touch screen phones out that Sprint has but no one are flocking to those cuz its not 'cool'

[jemagee]

Why wouldn't it be Apple's fault?  Their product is not flawless.  It's alright but leaves a lot to be desired IMO.   The marketing is really good tho.  You can argue any way you want but their marketing is why the IPOD is what people compare all other MP3 players to but it's not the best one.  Same deal here.

Because apple doesn't write the reviews...blame the reviewers, don't blame apple for doing it better (marketing/promotion) than any other company doing the same thing.  Blame the reviewers, the journalists, the other advertising firms for not being as creative or 'zeitgeisty' as the apple ad firms.  Blame the general public for falling for the nonsense.

Any company out there SHOULD market their product as 'the best available' in their market, unless of course their goal is 'we're not as good but we're much cheaper and can do the job' type of company...I'm not going to blame apple for marketing themselves better than other companies, whether or not their product is better or not...it's kind of the american way...in all facets of life, including politics, the best doesn't always win, but the shiniest and slickest packaged probably would.

At my job we market ourselves as america's favorite coffee alternative, and we have a leg to stand on due to the variety and flavors available, marketing is BS, but the general public knows it's BS (or at least should) but still fall for it.

And if the reviewers/critics do it, shame on them for not being good enough at their jobs.

[Reality]

Salim Stoudamire already has a Google Phone.

[westkoast]

Why wouldn't it be Apple's fault?  Their product is not flawless.  It's alright but leaves a lot to be desired IMO.   The marketing is really good tho.  You can argue any way you want but their marketing is why the IPOD is what people compare all other MP3 players to but it's not the best one.  Same deal here.

Because apple doesn't write the reviews...blame the reviewers, don't blame apple for doing it better (marketing/promotion) than any other company doing the same thing.  Blame the reviewers, the journalists, the other advertising firms for not being as creative or 'zeitgeisty' as the apple ad firms.  Blame the general public for falling for the nonsense.

LOL you are naive my friend.  They've planted plenty of people to give a "special" review to the product.  Not to mention paying celebrities to use the phone to give the perception it's "cool"  While I am not saying everyone hates it,  there are a lot of people who don't like it at all.  Not everyone can see past marketing like you do.  

Apple promising certain features, putting the phone out before the bugs were fixed, and their "policy" with the iphone when it first came out is more then enough to blame them.  They use a marketing blitz to try to push that down.

Any company out there SHOULD market their product as 'the best available' in their market, unless of course their goal is 'we're not as good but we're much cheaper and can do the job' type of company...I'm not going to blame apple for marketing themselves better than other companies, whether or not their product is better or not...it's kind of the american way...in all facets of life, including politics, the best doesn't always win, but the shiniest and slickest packaged probably would.

It's one thing to market a product saying its the best and another to market features and ease of use that are not really there.  They marketed 3G heavy, they marketed an improved and less buggy OS, none of which came as said with this last IPHONE.  I don't find it okay to say things and not back them up.  If you want to back shady practices, that's fine.  You can applaud them for marketing.  I think they do a great job but the product doesn't match up.  Read WOW's post about the mp3 player to understand what the problem is here.

[WayOutWest]

No, it's going to be compared to the iPhone, and if it suffers in comparison, that's not Apples fault.  So it's not a phone but an operating system, so again, not really a comparison to the iphone?

Have you guys seen how the Samsung's stack up to the IPhone?

[jemagee]

LOL you are naive my friend.  They've planted plenty of people to give a "special" review to the product.  Not to mention paying celebrities to use the phone to give the perception it's "cool"  While I am not saying everyone hates it,  there are a lot of people who don't like it at all.  Not everyone can see past marketing like you do. 

Apple promising certain features, putting the phone out before the bugs were fixed, and their "policy" with the iphone when it first came out is more then enough to blame them.  They use a marketing blitz to try to push that down.

Again, I'm not naive, I know how the game works, and how the game is played, and it's a game, and Apple plays it better (which is shocking think Microsoft has all that money, it's just an indicator that they don't hire the right people at microsoft to do the job, cause money shouldn't be an issue) and your above comments point to my comments regarding the public and the media falling for it, if the critics are taking kick backs for good reviews, then the critics should be fired or required to disclose what they get.

It's interesting, because in a media that I follow (video games) there's a whole hullabaloo these days about companies using perks to try and get good reviews, or allowing 'exclusives' before embargos if only the review is good...and there's a new blog out there from a guy who was in the trenches and he's 'spilling all' now that he's not working for EGM any more...again, if the public doesn't maintain their own healthy skepticism, it's their own damn fault.

The ONLY reason I have an iphone is because my job gave me one as a five year 'anniversary' present. 

[jemagee]

I think they do a great job but the product doesn't match up.  Read WOW's post about the mp3 player to understand what the problem is here.

There's the ideal world, and then there's the way the world works, since part of my job is marketing, I have to deal with the way the world works.

IN an ideal world, the coffee and soda companies wouldn't go out of their way to trample or disprove all the research indicating the deleterious effects of caffeine on various health conditions.  Unfortunately it's not an ideal world, so as someone marketing a coffee alternative/substitute I have to deal with the realities of bias research funded by companies with self interest in the results skewing one way.

If you haven't seen thank you for smoking, see it, sure it'll probably piss you off, but it's the way the world works folks.  Ideally it shouldn't work that way, but ideally morons shouldn't be called to politics or elected presidents, ideally people would have respect for other people on a daily basis on the roads, in line at stores, or whatever, but it's not an ideal world, it's a real world.

History is littered with the 'loser' being the better product but for one reason or another, the better product loses...if people don't want to buy the better product, you can't make them, if people want to believe the hype, you can't stop them...we live in a hype driven society...where what famous people use and like MATTERS.

Which makes it odder that while Microsoft figured out the 'stars help sell things' on the xbox/xbox 360  a while ago it took them a bit longer to get it up with trying to fight mac on windows (though the seinfeld commercials to me were just stupid)

[SPURSX3]

Salim Stoudamire already has a Google Phone.

...and he already owns "HotMexicanChorizo.com" too....can you believe that...i never would have guessed he was mexican...

[jemagee]

hmmm....do i want to change the name of 'basketballjourney' to hotmexicanchorizo?  I just might

[WayOutWest]

hmmm....do i want to change the name of 'basketballjourney' to hotmexicanchorizo?  I just might

You are walking away from billions!

Sometimes it's not even about who's product is better or marketing that your product is better.  Sometimes is STRICTLY a marketing issue.  The perfect example is McDonalds vs Burger King.  For decades McD would market circles around BK.  When McD's would come up with catchy mass appeal slogans like "Food, folks, and fun", BK would counter with "Sometimes you gotta break the rules".  WTF?  That is exactly what I thought when I saw those Bill Gates/Sinefeld commercials.  IMO the new "PC Stereotype" commercials are excellent but misplaced.  They point out that everyday people, a vast and diverse majority of everyday people, use PC on anything and everything under the sun.  Great counter to the "I'm so hip" commercials from Apple.  At first the commercials were great, I really enjoyed them, but the hip horse is dead.  The reason I think the commercials are misplaced is because nobody is going to trust a Mac in the office enviroment, the PC is not threatened there, not today.  The problem for PC's and the dominant OS is the newer generations of computer users.  Apple gets them young, when style is a bit more valuable, they carry it through to college, where Macs dominate.  IMO the upward push from academics into the office force is going much better than the downward push of office to academics.  MS needs to take some strategy clues from Japanese companies who plant 10 to 20 years down the road.  If every "know it all" wipper snapper comes into the work force a fan of Mac, the PC industry is going to slowly lose it's position as the dominant platform in the working force.

[westkoast]

hmmm....do i want to change the name of 'basketballjourney' to hotmexicanchorizo?  I just might

You are walking away from billions!

Sometimes it's not even about who's product is better or marketing that your product is better.  Sometimes is STRICTLY a marketing issue.  The perfect example is McDonalds vs Burger King.  For decades McD would market circles around BK.  When McD's would come up with catchy mass appeal slogans like "Food, folks, and fun", BK would counter with "Sometimes you gotta break the rules".  WTF?  That is exactly what I thought when I saw those Bill Gates/Sinefeld commercials.  IMO the new "PC Stereotype" commercials are excellent but misplaced.  They point out that everyday people, a vast and diverse majority of everyday people, use PC on anything and everything under the sun.  Great counter to the "I'm so hip" commercials from Apple.  At first the commercials were great, I really enjoyed them, but the hip horse is dead.  The reason I think the commercials are misplaced is because nobody is going to trust a Mac in the office enviroment, the PC is not threatened there, not today.  The problem for PC's and the dominant OS is the newer generations of computer users.  Apple gets them young, when style is a bit more valuable, they carry it through to college, where Macs dominate.  IMO the upward push from academics into the office force is going much better than the downward push of office to academics.  MS needs to take some strategy clues from Japanese companies who plant 10 to 20 years down the road.  If every "know it all" wipper snapper comes into the work force a fan of Mac, the PC industry is going to slowly lose it's position as the dominant platform in the working force.

My thoughts exactly.  As those younger kids move on from college into the work place the Macs are slowly coming with them.  If you look at first class on a number of flights youll see business pro's with the Mac Books.  While they are nowhere near to jumping over Microsoft in the corporate realm (for millions of reasons) Microsoft is screwing up with the new commercials. 

 To add insult to injury they toss in a grafitti artist to try to make it seem like even hip people use a PC.  Oh crap Pharell uses Vista?  NOPE!  He makes his beats using Pro Tools on a mac with other equipment...like everyone else in hip hop.

And that Samsung phone is suppose to stack up to the IPHONE as far as features go, it had the GPS turn by turn before the new version of the IPHONE came out, and some other things.....but it's not "hip".  It didn't have a marketing buzz to get people to be like 'yea thats cool i have to have it'

[Reality]

MS needs to take some strategy clues from Japanese companies who plant 10 to 20 years down the road. 

I defer to your guyses geekiness but on the marketing front, along with something you posted a while ago WoW.  When the discussion what "who inverted it."

Some of my insider sources (sigh) said many, dareso most of the breakthrus on the elec techno front were made by U.S. people.  Ie brainiacs in college, etc.  When the greedy US corps were approached about marketing, they would scoff at anything that took longer then two years to turn a profit.  Japan, as you posted, took a long term view.  Hence the CD rom, many other things were invented by US people but Japan bought the rights, manufactured and marketed it 1st because they bought in long term.

[westkoast]

http://lifehacker.com/5053661/what-android-could-bring-to-your-phone

[jemagee]

If the japanese plan 10 to 20 years ahead why the hell are their still shortages of the Wii?  We would like to play....

[Lurker]

If the japanese plan 10 to 20 years ahead why the hell are their still shortages of the Wii?  We would like to play....

Because no one could forecast how gullibly stupid Americans can be.