thinking about putting linux on the kids computer

[SPURSX3]

any suggestions? i would need most user freindly for soeone who has not used linux, i had someone tell me ubuntu, but I think WOW had some issue with it...any info would help.

[westkoast]

WOW had a problem getting wireless to work.  Aside from that, it's a basic operating system to operate.  The thing is though if the child is young enough, as much as I hate to say this, it may be more beneficial to put them on Windows...

[SPURSX3]

windows is freezing up too much on this computer, it's a franken-puter i built a while back, i tried to scan to see what memory I could add to help out but the scan came back that it that mem was maxed - i find that hard to believe but another scan said it was not ddr compatible...I figured they only use it to get online, no major applications, that is What I would do with it.  get them from asking to use mine soo much.  and yes it would be wireless, so i would probably need help when it came down to that...i got a buddy who works for rackspace in linux, I will probably have to get hiom over here, just want to know if this is the best option..

[WayOutWest]

The problem I had was I had a pretty new rev of a wireless card.  They have since released an updated driver.  Unless you are pretty tech savy you should avoid Ubuntu or anything non-Windows.  I had to down load some tools that allow you to basically compile a driver on your PC.  Downloading drivers is done from a command prompt with all the old school unix commands with geekfestwetdream switches and parameters.  You have to unzip them and stuff like that but it's all command prompt driven unless I was doing it the hard way.

Then again I only spent about 2 hours working on it so I didn't give it much of a chance.  I did get everything but wireless to work.  And I was able to get the wired internet to work.  Clearly Ubuntu is not intuitive enough for your average user, I was able to pick up HX-Unix a lot faster.

[SPURSX3]

The problem I had was I had a pretty new rev of a wireless card.  They have since released an updated driver.  Unless you are pretty tech savy you should avoid Ubuntu or anything non-Windows.  I had to down load some tools that allow you to basically compile a driver on your PC.  Downloading drivers is done from a command prompt with all the old school unix commands with geekfestwetdream switches and parameters.  You have to unzip them and stuff like that but it's all command prompt driven unless I was doing it the hard way.

Then again I only spent about 2 hours working on it so I didn't give it much of a chance.  I did get everything but wireless to work.  And I was able to get the wired internet to work.  Clearly Ubuntu is not intuitive enough for your average user, I was able to pick up HX-Unix a lot faster.

I tried it and it is not bad. The only thing is that my usb wlan does not have ANY linux support, i used different apps, etc.  still nothing, everything online states nobody has been able to get this wlan working with linux.  Howver, it was not that hard to get used to.  Using the terminal to get things done is kind of tricky for me but I think I was picking it up pretty well.  there is soo much support for linux out there, pretty much any question i had i could find an answer on...and it seems so clean and simple on this old pc, seems to runs better with out all the behind the scenes stuff going on that windows would do...may just go ahead and look for wlan that supports linux - not sure that i want to switch them back to windows...

[WayOutWest]

I tried it and it is not bad. The only thing is that my usb wlan does not have ANY linux support, i used different apps, etc.  still nothing, everything online states nobody has been able to get this wlan working with linux.  Howver, it was not that hard to get used to.  Using the terminal to get things done is kind of tricky for me but I think I was picking it up pretty well.  there is soo much support for linux out there, pretty much any question i had i could find an answer on...and it seems so clean and simple on this old pc, seems to runs better with out all the behind the scenes stuff going on that windows would do...may just go ahead and look for wlan that supports linux - not sure that i want to switch them back to windows...

Try remembering all those command prompt lines when you need them.  I use the command prompt for stuff but I do it on a semi-regular basis and even then I can't remember all of them.  That's whole reason behind "Windows", to get away from that command prompt DOS BS.  Until they incorporate features like locating, downloading and installing drivers from the Linux HMI, I will avoid it for the most part.  Your mainstream computers users will be waaaaaaaaay behind as well.  I have not seen how Dell packages their Ubuntu computers so I don't know if everything you need is on CD's shipped with the computer and installed with a simple utilities.  If Ubuntu is packaged that way from Dell then that would be a HUGE step in the right direction.  I have an older Dell Server PC that does not support XP and my kids find it very limited with Windows2000 running on it.  I might try Ubuntu on that PC since it's network is hardwired.  I will probably go out and get an HD to put Ubuntu on so I can switch back if I have to.

[SPURSX3]

I tried it and it is not bad. The only thing is that my usb wlan does not have ANY linux support, i used different apps, etc.  still nothing, everything online states nobody has been able to get this wlan working with linux.  Howver, it was not that hard to get used to.  Using the terminal to get things done is kind of tricky for me but I think I was picking it up pretty well.  there is soo much support for linux out there, pretty much any question i had i could find an answer on...and it seems so clean and simple on this old pc, seems to runs better with out all the behind the scenes stuff going on that windows would do...may just go ahead and look for wlan that supports linux - not sure that i want to switch them back to windows...

Try remembering all those command prompt lines when you need them.  I use the command prompt for stuff but I do it on a semi-regular basis and even then I can't remember all of them.  That's whole reason behind "Windows", to get away from that command prompt DOS BS.  Until they incorporate features like locating, downloading and installing drivers from the Linux HMI, I will avoid it for the most part.  Your mainstream computers users will be waaaaaaaaay behind as well.  I have not seen how Dell packages their Ubuntu computers so I don't know if everything you need is on CD's shipped with the computer and installed with a simple utilities.  If Ubuntu is packaged that way from Dell then that would be a HUGE step in the right direction.  I have an older Dell Server PC that does not support XP and my kids find it very limited with Windows2000 running on it.  I might try Ubuntu on that PC since it's network is hardwired.  I will probably go out and get an HD to put Ubuntu on so I can switch back if I have to.

I was pretty surprised, version 8.04 pretty much did everything on install, and updated itself as well, only really had to go into the terminal to try to get wlan running, other than that, i think it would work great for my kids, they don't do anything technical, they like going online to nick.com and that kind of stuff, considering how much better it operated I would much rather shell out the money for a compatible wlan than on a refurbished computer for them.

[westkoast]

WOW I think you were over thinking Linux...or at least Ubuntu I should say

You can run that thing out of the box and do 95 % of what you need with out touching the terminal

[WayOutWest]

WOW I think you were over thinking Linux...or at least Ubuntu I should say

You can run that thing out of the box and do 95 % of what you need with out touching the terminal

I can run 110% of Windows drivers and support, including the quirkiest hardware on earth, without opening up a command prompt.  The only reason I even go to a command prompt is cause it's quicker and I know the commands I want to use.  There are utilites that do the same thing but I'm too lazy to create a short cut on my desk top to them.  I think the only thing I still do from a command prompt is "ping" another machine.

[Derek Bodner]

WOW I think you were over thinking Linux...or at least Ubuntu I should say

You can run that thing out of the box and do 95 % of what you need with out touching the terminal

I can run 110% of Windows drivers and support, including the quirkiest hardware on earth, without opening up a command prompt.  The only reason I even go to a command prompt is cause it's quicker and I know the commands I want to use.  There are utilites that do the same thing but I'm too lazy to create a short cut on my desk top to them.  I think the only thing I still do from a command prompt is "ping" another machine.

You can run 110% of the windows drivers without dropping to the command line because that have been written for windows.

In Linux, the hardware that is either:
a) supported with open source drivers written by hardware manufacturers for linux
b) reverse-engineered by linux kernel developers

is included as an option in the kernel, of which ubuntu ships with a pretty bloated kernel.  The linux kernel comes with more hardware support than the windows kernel.  95% of hardware the end user never even has to do anything.  No command line, not even a driver install.

For hardware manufacturers that do release a driver, but don't open source it, Ubuntu has the restricted driver manager.  When using hardware that has a driver version (but that isn't free as in speech), ubuntu will pop up a button that says "restricted driver found".  click that and installation should be complete.

Now, the real pain in the ass comes from hardware that doesn't have a driver written for it, either reverse engineered by kernel developers or developed natively by hardware manufacturers.  This is the %5 of the time you may have to drop to the command line.  It's really hard to fault "linux" for this, as the only reason there isn't easily installable version for linux is because hardware manufacturers don't make any drivers for them, where they do for windows.

Not that it really changes the end result (that at times you will have to drop to the command line to get hardware to work), but saying "until you no longer have to drop to the command line" implies that it's linux's fault or even a geeks unwillingness to change to make it easy, and certainly saying "clearly ubuntu is not intuitive enough" lays blame incorrectly, where IMO they're (both kernel developers and ubuntu with the restricted driver manager) making great strides in making linux "just work" (tm).

[SPURSX3]

this Dynex is in that 5%, and now i am trying to find something that will work with ubuntu for wireless connection...

[Derek Bodner]

what kind of card are you looking for?

(i.e. wireless or desktop, pcmcia/smart card, usb, or pci)

wireless manufacturers, on a whole, are some of the worst in terms of drivers.  atheros is pretty well supported, although it's in proprietary binary blobs.  intel chipset drivers are well supported.  cisco as well.  But on the whole, wireless is definitely the toughest part that people run into..

[SPURSX3]

pci or usb for wlan connection...

[WayOutWest]

You can run 110% of the windows drivers without dropping to the command line because that have been written for windows.

In Linux, the hardware that is either:
a) supported with open source drivers written by hardware manufacturers for linux
b) reverse-engineered by linux kernel developers

is included as an option in the kernel, of which ubuntu ships with a pretty bloated kernel.  The linux kernel comes with more hardware support than the windows kernel.  95% of hardware the end user never even has to do anything.  No command line, not even a driver install.

For hardware manufacturers that do release a driver, but don't open source it, Ubuntu has the restricted driver manager.  When using hardware that has a driver version (but that isn't free as in speech), ubuntu will pop up a button that says "restricted driver found".  click that and installation should be complete.

Now, the real pain in the ass comes from hardware that doesn't have a driver written for it, either reverse engineered by kernel developers or developed natively by hardware manufacturers.  This is the %5 of the time you may have to drop to the command line.  It's really hard to fault "linux" for this, as the only reason there isn't easily installable version for linux is because hardware manufacturers don't make any drivers for them, where they do for windows.

Not that it really changes the end result (that at times you will have to drop to the command line to get hardware to work), but saying "until you no longer have to drop to the command line" implies that it's linux's fault or even a geeks unwillingness to change to make it easy, and certainly saying "clearly ubuntu is not intuitive enough" lays blame incorrectly, where IMO they're (both kernel developers and ubuntu with the restricted driver manager) making great strides in making linux "just work" (tm).

The end result is the same, it's Lunix's fault.  If something doesn't work in Windows you don't say something like "dam ATI didn't write a good Vista driver", you say "it doesn't work in Vista"  i.e. Vista's fault.  Everyone I've spoken to about Ubuntu had the same exact 5% problem, IMO not good.  While I agree that Window's has not done anything great in terms of supporting 3rd party software/hardware, the 3rd party vendors have done an excellent job of writing Windows interfaces that make the overall Windows experience much easier than Linux and it's variants.  Plus you get VAR's like Dell who make the drivers even easier to install with their resource CD's and resource management software that is typically preloaded and will get loaded with automatic updates.  I've been there done that, from VAX-VMS, HP-Unix, DOS, Windows and even some proprietary OS's and IMO, other than Apple, it's easier to use Windows for the novice to above average user and tech head.

[westkoast]

I've got many people into Ubuntu and they did not have the same issues.  So I guess you can say its down the middle depending on your hardware.  In fact a friend of mine who I got into Ubuntu called me just two days ago because he recently got a wireless router in his new place.  I was thinking 'This better not be a headache' and to my surprise, it wasn't.  At all.  Ubuntu found the wireless card, connected up, hit the web, all good to go.

As far as basic users, using it.  I let my friends use it when they come over and I am on my laptop.  They navigate fine once I show them where Firefox is.