OT - Taking the plunge! Ubuntu on the way home.

[Derek Bodner]

Bods sounds like some kind of MicroSoft shill.

I'm actually a pretty big anti-ms guy.

I figured I would have to find and install a driver for the NIC, Wireless NIC and sound card.  I might have to get a driver for the video as well.  I'm sure there are plenty of MP3 players out there but I'm concerned about being able to play movies and such.  I am actually installing it right now on the laptop.  I'll search the web for drivers, hopefully I can get my part/model numbers from Dell's website

You won't really be searching the web for anything, either drivers or software.  Pretty much everything you need is installable via synaptic/apt.  That's one of the staples of Linux Distributions.  For some it's not what they're used to, but it's way more intuitive IMO.

Not sure about compiling a kernel but I figured there would be .sys, .ini and .cfg file equivalents on this OS

A lot of configuration can be done via interfaces (that's one of Ubuntu's main goals), but everything is still stored in text files (mainly in /etc)

I am an above, actually way above, average computer user so if I can't get it to work this OS has problems

There's a few things I'd comment on here:
- A lot of times the above average computer users have as much if not more trouble than average to below average converting.  You've got 15+ years of resistance to change and you're used to how things work with Windows.  A lot of things that are "blamed" on Linux is more a resistance to change than something wrong.  Think if you had never used Windows, and you installed from scratch.  Half your hardware isn't recognized or works poorly, and now you're googling for drivers, and you didn't know where to go to find anything.  This is the frustration many have when trying linux for the first time, and end up going back to what they're used to, not because it's better, but because it's what they're used to.
- Ubuntu isn't an OS.  The OS is GNU/Linux.  There's really 4 main parts (with many more smaller parts) to Ubuntu.
-- Linux.  The underlying kernel
-- GNU.  Supplies the majority of userland tools
-- Debian.  The distribution that is the base of Ubuntu (and developed apt/synaptic)
-- Ubuntu.  Mainly involved for packaging in configuration tools and maintaining the software repositories.

Hardware detection has very little to do with Ubuntu, except that it's influenced by how bloated they make the kernel (more drivers loaded into the kernel can lead to greater out of the box hardware detection).  But if something's buggy with a chipset or card, it's likely because there's no good drivers for it.  There are many reasons for this.  For one, many hardware manufacturers don't produce drivers for Linux like they do for Windows.  There's simply not enough of a user base for it to be worth their time (for makers of Desktop hardware, at least).  So Linux developers reverse engineer, which isn't optimal.  There's a little chicken and egg, as more users won't adopt until there is better hardware support, and there won't be perfect hardware support until there are more users.

Second, some drivers can't be automatically installed due to licensing restrictions.  Biggest and best example of this is mp3 and dvd codecs, which require a licensing fee.  When buying a computer with windows OEM, this is done by dell etc.  No can do in this scenario.

[Derek Bodner]

output of:
/sbin/ifconfig

and

iwconfig

[WayOutWest]

output of:
/sbin/ifconfig

and

iwconfig

I called it quits for tonight after my hardwired LAN connection stopped working.  I got as far as my wireless card getting an IP address from my router but it came to a grinding halt right there.  I'll give it a another go at it tomorow.

[Joe Vancil]

Well, I'm using VMware mostly these days, and installing systems under VMware.

I'm not a big fan of Linux, simply because of the learning curve that Derek mentioned.  That said, however, it is the better system to go with for some functions.  For example, on my web site, I have a front-end mail server that's Linux - CENTOS, specifically.

Over the past few days, I've been installing VISTA on my "uberbox" at work.  I've had some trouble with the initial video drivers, but I think the up-to-date ones may have fixed my problem.  Of course, I'm not sure how printers are going to work;  I'm going to have to install Vista drivers on the print server.

Personally, if I have a choice as to the OS to go with, it's Windows 2003 Server.  After that, it would be Windows XP.  The biggest reason for that is that I'm quite comfortable with Exchange, IIS, Active Directory, etc.  I wouldn't want to use a Windows box for FTP (at least, with Microsoft's FTP), but other than that, it's simply easier for me to do whatever I need to do in Windows than in Linux. 

If I were able to do a little more in Linux without having to work off of a model, I'd feel better about it.  If I were more easily able to set up Samba so I could exchange files with my Windows box, I'd feel better about it.  If Linux ran a few of the programs I like - rather than "this is just as good, and maybe even better" software - I'd feel better about it.

The fact is that Linux, like any OS, has both its purposes and its flaws.  But to really do Linux well, you need to know Linux well.  I don't.

[WayOutWest]

Well, I'm using VMware mostly these days, and installing systems under VMware.

I'm not a big fan of Linux, simply because of the learning curve that Derek mentioned.  That said, however, it is the better system to go with for some functions.  For example, on my web site, I have a front-end mail server that's Linux - CENTOS, specifically.

Over the past few days, I've been installing VISTA on my "uberbox" at work.  I've had some trouble with the initial video drivers, but I think the up-to-date ones may have fixed my problem.  Of course, I'm not sure how printers are going to work;  I'm going to have to install Vista drivers on the print server.

Personally, if I have a choice as to the OS to go with, it's Windows 2003 Server.  After that, it would be Windows XP.  The biggest reason for that is that I'm quite comfortable with Exchange, IIS, Active Directory, etc.  I wouldn't want to use a Windows box for FTP (at least, with Microsoft's FTP), but other than that, it's simply easier for me to do whatever I need to do in Windows than in Linux. 

If I were able to do a little more in Linux without having to work off of a model, I'd feel better about it.  If I were more easily able to set up Samba so I could exchange files with my Windows box, I'd feel better about it.  If Linux ran a few of the programs I like - rather than "this is just as good, and maybe even better" software - I'd feel better about it.

The fact is that Linux, like any OS, has both its purposes and its flaws.  But to really do Linux well, you need to know Linux well.  I don't.

Well for all it's quirks and the "learning curve", I did get 90% of the things I needed to work.  Without wireless working though I think it will be a lost cause.  It almost seems like there is something wrong with the DNS or something along the lines of a TCP/IP setting.  The PC will get a IP address and I can ping the router but beyond the router there is no connectivity.  I tried a few things I read about on the net and I got past all the things people complained about but the final step of internet access is where is stops.  I could probably get Vista to work in an hour, even though I have never used it before but it ends up getting corrupt to the point of not being able to fix it in just a few weeks so I'm not thrilled of reloading the OS every month.  If I can't get it to work by Friday night I'll go back to Vista or try an get XP on the machine.

[westkoast]

Hay don't say I didn't warn ya about the wireless stuff W.O.W....

Though you seem to be having a lot more trouble then most.  I am quite surprised you were not able to find anything using google or on the Ubunutu forums.  Like I said they've been very helpful for me in the past.

[Reality]

WoW do you want to hire a consultant?

[westkoast]

WoW do you want to hire a consultant?

 

*whistles*

jk

[WayOutWest]

WoW do you want to hire a consultant?

 

*whistles*

jk

LOL!  I'm starting to suspect it might be something other than the OS and hardware.  Like I said, the hardware seems to be working.  If you can get an IP from the router then it might be some kind of DNS problem or something else along those lines.  Security doesn't seem to be an issue otherwise it would not even get an IP address from the router.  There was an update for Firefox available and I think after the install the hardwire LAN stopped working.  The "learning curve" was not that big a deal considering how far I was able to get with the machine.  This falls into the 20% of work that takes 80% of the time.  I had this problem with Vista and had to reload the entire OS.  Dell tech support was not able to resolve the issue after two hours on the phone and they suggest I revert to factory defaults, when that didn't work I had to reload the entire OS per Dell.

We'll see, an hour and a half is probably not enough time to give a new OS a thumbs up or down.

[Derek Bodner]

The PC will get a IP address and I can ping the router but beyond the router there is no connectivity

Can you ping an IP address (i.e. 4.2.2.1)?

Your /etc/resolv.conf might be screwed up.

[SPURSX3]

WoW do you want to hire a consultant?

LOL, I was waiting for someone to say that...

[WayOutWest]

The PC will get a IP address and I can ping the router but beyond the router there is no connectivity

Can you ping an IP address (i.e. 4.2.2.1)?

Your /etc/resolv.conf might be screwed up.

I can only ping devices on my LAN.  No WAN connectivity, that's why I think it's not a hardware issue, some kind of TCP/IP config problem.  When I get home I'll do a bit more work on it and post some findings to your questions.

[WayOutWest]

output of:
/sbin/ifconfig

eth0      Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr 00:15:c5:80:df:40 
          inet addr:192.168.1.104  Bcast:192.168.1.255  Mask:255.255.255.0
          inet6 addr: fe80::215:c5ff:fe80:df40/64 Scope:Link
          UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST  MTU:1500  Metric:1
          RX packets:1321 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
          TX packets:789 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
          collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000
          RX bytes:1206090 (1.1 MB)  TX bytes:88801 (86.7 KB)
          Interrupt:17

lo        Link encap:Local Loopback 
          inet addr:127.0.0.1  Mask:255.0.0.0
          inet6 addr: ::1/128 Scope:Host
          UP LOOPBACK RUNNING  MTU:16436  Metric:1
          RX packets:2456 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
          TX packets:2456 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
          collisions:0 txqueuelen:0
          RX bytes:122800 (119.9 KB)  TX bytes:122800 (119.9 KB)

wlan0     Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr 00:1f:3a:0f:3e:57 
          inet addr:192.168.1.105  Bcast:192.168.1.255  Mask:255.255.255.0
          inet6 addr: fe80::21f:3aff:fe0f:3e57/64 Scope:Link
          UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST  MTU:1500  Metric:1
          RX packets:335 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
          TX packets:31 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
          collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000
          RX bytes:49576 (48.4 KB)  TX bytes:5910 (5.7 KB)

wmaster0  Link encap:UNSPEC  HWaddr 00-1F-3A-0F-3E-57-00-00-00-00-00-00-00-00-00-00 
          UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST  MTU:1500  Metric:1
          RX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
          TX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
          collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000
          RX bytes:0 (0.0 B)  TX bytes:0 (0.0 B)

iwconfig

lo        no wireless extensions.

eth0      no wireless extensions.

wmaster0  no wireless extensions.

wlan0     IEEE 802.11g  ESSID:"Zapotec" 
          Mode:Managed  Frequency:2.437 GHz  Access Point: 00:1C:10:8B:48:8D   
          Bit Rate=2 Mb/s   Tx-Power=27 dBm   
          Retry min limit:7   RTS thr:off   Fragment thr=2346 B   
          Link Quality=90/100  Signal level=-39 dBm  Noise level=-72 dBm
          Rx invalid nwid:0  Rx invalid crypt:0  Rx invalid frag:0
          Tx excessive retries:0  Invalid misc:0   Missed beacon:0

[WayOutWest]

I just went through installing some kind of build tools.  Downloaded a driver from the net.  Unpacked the files.  Compiled the driver.  Installed and tested.  It was so very Unix like.  I now remember why I stopped using Unix and VAX/VMS.

Well know my wireless options and hardware don't even show up.  So much for Ubuntu.  Vista here I come...back....

P.S.  Got Vista back on the PC in about 45 minutes and everything works.