Eskin: Sixers about to sign Kareem Rush

[bebopdeluxe]

Skates:

I have no concern about Iguodala developing, for example, a Bruce Bowen/Raja Bell-like 3 point threat into his arsenal...but right now - given the current construction of this team - I see very little threat to opposing teams just zoning up and doubling Brand and daring this team to beat them from the outside.  If somebody like Hinrich was our PG (somebody who could make a team pay for that strategy), then Iggy would be a great fit....but even in TGP and my scenario of having somebody like Michael Redd as our SG, a Miller/Redd backcourt scares me a bit in terms of +/-....

I wish that - in concert with the decision on Iggy, we could also make a decision on our PG of the future (god, I would love a trading deadline Miller-for-Hinrich swap, but I don't think it will happen), but unfortunately that will not be the case...

tk:

This isn't about "labels"...this is about having somebody who is playing 30+ mpg at the 1, 2 or 3 who can hit a freaking jumpshot with consistency.  We know Miller can't do it.  It is unrealistic to expect Thad to do it - at least for the upcoming season.  And we are about to give Iggy $70 million not knowing if HE can do it - again, at least for this season.

[sixerscan]

All the 3 point shooters in the world and you go with Bowen and Bell?

[Skates]

If we had a PG who could either 1) shoot it well from the outside (Hinrich) or 2) be the dynamic offensive threat (shooting, slashing, general havoc-wreaking) that would allow Iggy to simply be an all-around jack-of-all-trades (in my beloved AI-for-the-MLE scenario), then I think Iggy is a great fit for this team.  But with Miller at the point (no outside shooting and a real concern about wearing down as May and June come around), I wonder if we will get enough "classic SG" offense from Iggy to keep opposing defenses from just packing it in and doubling Brand.

No, no, no.  Iverson will not come here for the MLE.  I foresee a S&T of Miller for Iverson as the only way of getting him back here, although Miller + WG + Reggie for Iverson this year actually works and might save the Nuggets from breaking the luxury tax barrier, not that they would take that deal with the extra years remaining on WG and Reggie's contracts.  

[Derek Bodner]

I'm sorry...then how about we simply throw out his stats since AI was traded and pay him based on his stats when he was the SG?

Well, if you want to go that route:
- In 2006-2007, he played 41% of the teams SG minutes, 34% of the teams SF minutes.  His PER at SG (20.9) was considerably higher than his PER at SF (18.3), as was his efficiency (48.6% at SG, 45.7% at SF)
- In 2005-2006, he played 37% of the teams SG minutes, 39% of the teams SF.  AGain, his PER was higher at SG (17.1 vs 14., as was his efficiency (56% vs 52.8%)
- In 2004-2005 he played 50% of the teams SG minutes, 16% of the teams SF minutes.  Again, higher PER at SG (15.4 vs 12.2) and higher efficiency (55.1% vs 48.9%).

It's not like he stopped playing SG when Iverson was traded.  He was consistently starting at SG (next to Korver) up until Green began starting (March 2007).

What does this show?
He can play successfully at SG.  It's more important WHO he plays with (a shooter like Korver a better fit than a slasher like Green) than where he plays.  His PER and efficiency were continually higher at SG (when he was presumably playing with Korver) than at SF (when he was primarily playing with Green at SG).

[Sub]

The point of the debate was simple, really. Someone said Iguodala shouldn't be paid a certain amount because he "never" played the SG position. Like, never ever. And to be a good SG, you had to be able to come off a screen and hit a jumper. One just wasn't true, the other, at least IMO, seemed very miopic. Iguodala can improve his jumper. The fact he's not a top-flight jumpshooter as of yet doesn't mean you don't pay him for everything else he does extremely well AND bank on the potential that he can become at the very least an average-to-above-average perimeter shooter.

The other thing that was interesting was that Ellis was being used as the measuring stick. He "is a SG", someone said. Iguodala is not and can't make the switch. Funny thing: Ellis' % from the behind the arc is much lower than Iguodala's, and Nelson is moving Ellis to the point.

[jemagee]

I'm confused

When Andre Iguodala was starting with allen iverson...what position was he starting at?

LOL! And of course, we all long for those days of either not making the playoffs or being bounced very quickly by the Pistons.

You mean like last season where when the pistons woke up they bitch slapped the sixers.

I asked a simple question cause it seems the first 2.5 seasons of the iguodala career are forgotten by those who want to say he can't be a sg and has never been a sg

[jemagee]

The point of the debate was simple, really. Someone said Iguodala shouldn't be paid a certain amount because he "never" played the SG position. Like, never ever

And that's the only point i was focusing on, whether or not he played it well is debateable but to come out and say he never played SG, that's just an ignorance even i'm in awe of, to believe it so fervently (as X poster believes everything he said) that if presented with facts he'll dismiss them...i mean you have no credibility in my eyes if you can't even get the basics right.

My only point is that Andre Iguodala HAS PLAYED and STARTED at SG for over half his career...

[tk76-]

The other thing that was interesting was that Ellis was being used as the measuring stick. He "is a SG", someone said. Iguodala is not and can't make the switch. Funny thing: Ellis' % from the behind the arc is much lower than Iguodala's, and Nelson is moving Ellis to the point.

You mean the Ellis who is projected to have to change to PG?  He's siddenly the gold standard for SG's?

I realize that both Ellis and Rip are excellent example of good midrange shooters, and Iguodala is not a deadeye shooter like them (although he is improving and far from bad.)  But Iguodala can defend SG's- and defensively is probably more a pure "SG" than either Ellis or Rip. 

This all goes to reinforce how silly being dogmatic about positions.  If you are a limitted role player its good to fit well in to one position.  Once you reach the level of an Ellis, Rip or Iguodala you have proved your value- and its most important how you fit with your team- not your exact position.

There is an understandable concern about Iguodala's fit with the overall team weakness in shooting.  I believe this will be less an issue in 1-2 years as Young, Lou, Iguodala, Smith and Speights all improve as shooter.  for the time being it would proabably be better to have more of a sweet shootin PG and SF next to Iguodala, but its not a big enough issue for me to want to trade him.  In fact, I'd rather replace Miller than Iguodala if push comes to shove.  I think Iguodala and Young will ultimately be a great combo on both ends of the floor.  Even better than Martin/Young or Ellis/Young or Richardson/Young would be.  Maybe Redd/Young would be better offensively, but not defensively.

[sixerscan]

Here's my prediction. Either we trade Miller for someone who can shoot, or in two years Miller isn't good enough to play over Williams and the shooting issue in the starting lineup is solved.


Edit- Oh and once Thad turns 21 he's going to shoot 80% from the field, including 90% from 3 and it won't really matter who the other 11 guys are because we ain't never losing a game again.

[jemagee]

Here's my prediction. Either we trade Miller for someone who can shoot, or in two years Miller isn't good enough to play over Williams and the shooting issue in the starting lineup is solved.

Well he better be better in one year cause the odds favor miller being gone after next season, no matter if he's traded or leaves very free agency.

Is monta ellis now more valuable a basketball player than andre iguodala btw?

[sixerscan]

If he can play point he is. As is in a vacuum I wouldn't trade Iguodala for him.

[anklebreaker]

I like it.... hopefully it's true. 

As far as hitting clutch shots... I recall Rush shooting lights out in an elimination playoff game a few years ago when he was on the Lakers.  I could very well be wrong, but I believe it was against Minnesota when they made their run with KG, Cassell, and Spree.  Rush flat out went off in that game. 

It was against Minnesota.... Rush drained 6 CONSECUTIVE 3's in an elimination game.  You can bet he was the difference in that game. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBgT3IikIK8&feature=related 

[DuckyNinja]

I didn't realize Rush was that big.  I thought he was Willie Green sized.  He can't really be any worse than Carney, can he?

[anklebreaker]

Carney is faster, bigger, has way more athleticism, and can defend... but he can also turn into a black hole faster than just about anyone I've ever seen with such physical attributes.  From what I've seen of Rush he's consistent with his shooting, spaces very well, and he's better than most people think on the fast break.  Not sure who the better player is right now, but both are marginal role players.... Rush should fit in nicely here.... I like the signing. 

[bebopdeluxe]

Wow...where do I start?

jem:

My point of using Bowen and Bell as my examples was when Skates said that Iguodala probably won't ever have that classic "quick release" stroke that classic SG's have...Bowen and Bell were guys who came into the league without that 3-pointer, but with time and (I would guess) hard work, they became above to above average 3 point shooters.  Iggy has actually shown that in the past (I'll get back to that later);

Skates:

While I would certainly agree that there is not a high probability that AI would come back to the Sixers for the MLE next summer, I do believe that the percentage probability is greater than zero (read: I can always hope...right?);

 

dabods:

Always appreciate the stats, bro...and they are good ones...however it is fair to add that the construction of the team was different back then.  Flanked by one of the best 3-point shooters in the league and one of the most dominant players with the dribble in recent NBA history, Iggy had room on the floor that I just don't see (right now, at least) in 2007-08.  Miller and Thad simply aren't AI and Korver.  Next to a PG like Hinrich (a plus-3-point shooter), I think Iggy will see more room on the the floor to maneuver...but I just don't see that right now - so, for me, those stats from a couple of years ago may not necessarily translate to this current team.

sub:

Even if he can develop a decent outside shot, as mentioned above, I don't see a Redd/Korver/Allen/Rip-like release coming anytime soon.  Perhaps dabods can provide stats to refute this, but I certainly don't remember a lot of catch-and-release, off a screen jumpers (again, "classic SG" jumpers) in his arsenal anytime soon (although I would love to be proved wrong).  However, you still left out the other fatal flaw in his current game (with this current roster) that is a problem - his handle.  It's simply no more then average/pedestrian at best in the halfcourt...now, a couple of years ago, with AI on one side, and Korver on the other side, there were open spots on the perimeter and lanes that an athletic guy with a sub-standard handle could still take advantage of.  But on this team, with other teams zoning us up and packing it in), I don't see those lanes being available, and his handle simply is not good enough to create something, IMO.  Do you agree or disagree with that?