OT - Anybody a fan of the WSOP?

[WayOutWest]

The 2008 season started today on ESPN.  The first final table is full of stars.  Next to Celebrity Poker and Hip Hop Poker Stars, this is some of the worst Poker you can see on TV.  I guess it gives the "fish" hope they can win it all but it's frustrating as hell to watch some times.

[jemagee]

I guess it give the "fish" hope they can win it all but it's frustrating as hell to watch some times.

AMateurs have wont ehe main event the past few years since the advent of the TV WSOP popularity...I think there's money out there to make some sort of 'pro poker' tour in the vein of the pro golf tour where you have 'q school' and sponsors...i don't like televised poker cause mainly it just focuses on the 'all ins'

[Reality]

The 2008 season started today on ESPN.  The first final table is full of stars.  Next to Celebrity Poker and Hip Hop Poker Stars, this is some of the worst Poker you can see on TV.  I guess it gives the "fish" hope they can win it all but it's frustrating as hell to watch some times.

Concur.  I enjoy watching some hands but watching the last two years previous winners fish their way to the title was aggravating.  (Gold and Yann or Yang or whatever 2007s winner was)

I wonder what all the book writers went out on?  (or in effect went out on, the hand(s) that hurt their chances the most.  Harrington, Brat, Doyle, Slansky, etc.

[WayOutWest]

The 2008 season started today on ESPN.  The first final table is full of stars.  Next to Celebrity Poker and Hip Hop Poker Stars, this is some of the worst Poker you can see on TV.  I guess it gives the "fish" hope they can win it all but it's frustrating as hell to watch some times.

Concur.  I enjoy watching some hands but watching the last two years previous winners fish their way to the title was aggravating.  (Gold and Yann or Yang or whatever 2007s winner was)

I wonder what all the book writers went out on?  (or in effect went out on, the hand(s) that hurt their chances the most.  Harrington, Brat, Doyle, Slansky, etc.

FYI,

The best poker show on TV is "High Stakes Poker".  It's sort of an ESPN highlight show like the WSOP as well but it's a cash game, one is a $100K buy in the other is a $500K buy in.  Guys like Jamie Gold really get exposed on that show, it's a pro's pro's show IMO.

There are poker shows like Poker Dome challenge and one other, I think it's a Full Tilt show, that show every second of every minute of a live tournament.  You get a much better feel what it's like to play in a tourney from watching those two shows.

[jemagee]

Didn't they put the final table of the WSOP on PPV live last year? 

[WayOutWest]

Didn't they put the final table of the WSOP on PPV live last year? 

I'm pretty sure they did, not sure if it was the final table of the main event, but they did put some event live on PPV. 

I heard, but not read or confirmed, that the final table of the main event is going to be played later in the year.  The players are going to have a few months break and have a chance to study their opponents IMO, the ratings are slipping so they are trying something new.

[jemagee]

I heard, but not read or confirmed, that the final table of the main event is going to be played later in the year.  The players are going to have a few months break and have a chance to study their opponents IMO, the ratings are slipping so they are trying something new.

I heard that too, but assumed it was so they could air it live at a time of their making...the ratings are probably slipping and less people are showing up since the WSOP changed the whole 'web site buys your buy in' thing...

[Reality]

Well i watched last nights "episode" and it was the same old bullcrap from what i saw.  That being suck outs on "played bad won good" hands, a couple being the 5% nonsense.

The worst one was a Kobe worshipper (i am not making this up) the #8 jersey African American dumbass vs the Norway (or similiar foreign pro chick).  Here is how it rolled (from memory as i did not tape, sorry).

Draw
he 5 5
she K 7

Flop 6 8 9 with neither having a flush draw, she now having the up n down straight draw.
She pushes 100K, not a huge bet at this juncture and he calls.

Turn is 5.  So she has a straight, he has a set.  Best possible scenario for her.  She goes all in.  LakerBoy calls. 

River is a 6.  So lucky arse gets a boat when of course he thought his set had her beat.  He starts beating his chest and flapping his gums about how "you don't bluff the G-Man, you don't bluff the G-Man no way" as if she was bluffing (she wasn't with a straight) and he made some great instinct call (lucky arsed suck out, what was it WoW, 5% chance of his boating over her straight.  It was a stoopid call, he simply sucked out) 

Total b.s.  There was lots more.  QQ beating KK after an all in preflop.  Not horrible but still a suck out.  This *winner* went to the *fate* speech schpeel but at least he wasn't gloating like Kobeeboy.

Not done yet.  AK went all in preflop vs 85 unsuited.  Disgusting suck out gets an 8 and 5 on the flop and greases out.  He was acting all baddass as if he knew it all along also.

But a chance bullcrap imo WoW.  Very little skill involved. 

I was very impressed with the Vegas coach who was bluffing very well.  He finally got caught by amatuer Canadian dude but before that he was nailing what other people held for hands Daniel Negrano style.  He learned this by working for the WSOP filming crew.  He then logged thousands of hands and studied the reactions of players.  I'll try to get his name, he is good.

I did see Phil Brat do a good flush catch on the river.  Of course he had to rub it in.  Also Mike the Mouth was drawing dead most every hand, looked like he was about done.

[WayOutWest]

Well i watched last nights "episode" and it was the same old bullcrap from what i saw.  That being suck outs on "played bad won good" hands, a couple being the 5% nonsense.

The worst one was a Kobe worshipper (i am not making this up) the #8 jersey African American dumbass vs the Norway (or similiar foreign pro chick).  Here is how it rolled (from memory as i did not tape, sorry).

Draw
he 5 5
she K 7

So here you are saying the PRO, yes that guy is a pro who plays in some the biggest CASH games on earth, is ahead and that IDIOT with the K/7 off should not be playing right?  RIGHT!

Flop 6 8 9 with neither having a flush draw, she now having the up n down straight draw.
She pushes 100K, not a huge bet at this juncture and he calls.

Here is what the PRO was referring to, she (K/7) was bluffing, the hand that should NOT be playing in the first place is bluffing.

Turn is 5.  So she has a straight, he has a set.  Best possible scenario for her.  She goes all in.  LakerBoy calls. 
River is a 6.  So lucky arse gets a boat when of course he thought his set had her beat.  He starts beating his chest and flapping his gums about how "you don't bluff the G-Man, you don't bluff the G-Man no way" as if she was bluffing (she wasn't with a straight) and he made some great instinct call (lucky arsed suck out, what was it WoW, 5% chance of his boating over her straight.  It was a stoopid call, he simply sucked out) 

So greasy idiot chick SUCKS out and hits the open ended strait. She is ULTRA lucky, ZERO skill, in that one of the cards that made her strait made the other guys set.  She hits the 10 and the hand is over, pocket 5's would have been gone. 

IMO that is poker justice, a CRAP hand in K/7 that I can NOT stand to see played, got beat by the SUPERIOR pocket 5's.  Any and all pro's make a mistake or misread, that was the case on the turn because he made a set.  With no paint showing on the board there were no warning signs that his set was in trouble.

LESSON OVER......

[Reality]

amatuer,
The Kobeboy bet very small both after the draw and the flop.  So she was not bluffing, he was paranoid he was beat on both the preflop and flop, thus allowing her to stay in with very small relative bets.

Sheesh.  Lesson concluded.

Now if he would have bet big on his 5s and she sucked out, you'd be correct.
Plus i do not remember, maybe she her hole cards were two of the 5 straights.  Even if she was K7, he failed to bet big enough to fold her.

[Reality]

edit.
She had an up and down straight after the flop.

[westkoast]

I would say I am a fan but not an avid fan.  From time to time I'll switch it on to watch.  I enjoy playing poker and it's interesting to see how pro players handle certain hands.

[WayOutWest]

amatuer,
The Kobeboy bet very small both after the draw and the flop.  So she was not bluffing, he was paranoid he was beat on both the preflop and flop, thus allowing her to stay in with very small relative bets.

Sheesh.  Lesson concluded.

Now if he would have bet big on his 5s and she sucked out, you'd be correct.
Plus i do not remember, maybe she her hole cards were two of the 5 straights.  Even if she was K7, he failed to bet big enough to fold her.

You are defending a hand that had ONE card to a strait?  If that is the case you will not be able to understand anything I post about poker.

Please tell me who STARTED out with the best hand.........here's a hint, it's the same one who ENDED with the best hand.

[WayOutWest]

edit.
She had an up and down straight after the flop.

Open ended/double bell buster or not, it was ONE card to the strait!  K/7 is a weak suck out hand, and you are complaining that the pocket pair sucked out? 

Take a step back, remove Kobe's jock from your mouth, and try to understand how wrong you are about this hand.  I would SLAP someone if they complained about their K/7 getting sucked out on by pocket 5's, I would then hand them an "Idiots Guide to Poker" or "Poker for Dummies" book.

[jemagee]

One of the problems is that ESPN has to edit it to make it entertaining so they are going to show you to all ins and the 'shouldn't have' hands that  won.  Plus it encourages the neophyte to find his 10K and keep poker on ESPN and popular.

I must admit, watching the noobs who don't really always know what they are doing beat Phil Hellmuth is very entertaining.

Listening to Norman Chad 'stalk' some british woman as a television announcer however is very very creepy

WPT on Travel has slightly better coverage as they devote 2 hours to only the final table so you see more than just the 'big hands'