I friggin hate the phillies

[jemagee]

DOnald is the short stop right?

The short stop that that could probably play well enough to replace the pitiful bats the phils have had since scott rolen but the phils have some bassackwards perceptoin of what a 3rd baseman should be?  There's a quote from an online chat out there about why donald doesn't get moved to third that is downright ridiculous

[jemagee]

Cardenas and Outman were 2/4 respectively in the phils system pre season according to baseball america, that was before the phils messed with outman and the emergence of the catcher (but one season emergence is always something to be wary of)

So two of the top 5 prospects pre season in the phils system traded for adam eaton jr...thrilling

There's also an uncomfirmed rumor that the A's first wanted Golson but the phils wouldn't discuss golson, so they moved on to cardenas.

If true, the entire front office should be shot

Meanwhile, apparently Blanton will replace Adam Eaton in the Phillies' rotation, or at least that's what every Phillies fan must be hoping. Really, it's sort of amazing that Eaton's been allowed to pitch for as long as he has. As a rookie eight years ago, Eaton went 7-4 with a 4.13 ERA. Since then he's never actually been good, and most of the time he's not even been adequate. Since signing his three-year, $24.5 million contract prior to 2007, he's 13-18 with a 6.06 ERA.

That's right: three-year contract. The Phillies owe Eaton another $9 million after this season, which does make releasing him now both embarrassing and (thus) difficult. Still, it probably must be done. Sunk costs and all that. Because while Blanton might have been the A's worst starter, he's now one of the Phillies' best.

[Derek Bodner]

I wouldn't have traded either Golson or Cardenas for Blanton, and I'm not even a huge Golson fan.  IMO Outman and Spencer were fair enough value.

[jemagee]

Outman is a better pitching prospect than golson is - if the rumor is true it's just a good example of how the phils over value the toolsy guys...and you can't ALWAYS trade them to ed wade for brad lidge

[noah]

So....

are we seriously going to pass on this Holiday / Fuentes trade?    (Victorino, Carasco, Lou Marson)

Wowwww.  Even if Fuentes opts out, ummmm.... we're talking about Matt Holiday.

Werth
J.Roll
Utley
Holiday
Howard
Burrell
Feliz
Coste

Yea, i'll take my chances with that... Lol.

[Derek Bodner]

Wowwww.  Even if Fuentes opts out, ummmm.... we're talking about Matt Holiday.

Matt Holliday, throughout his career, has been a mediocre player outside of Coors Field.  His career splits:
Home: .363 avg, 1.085 OPS, 1 hr every 15.5 at bats
Away: .277 avg, .790 OPS, 1 hr every 30.7 at bats

I don't think I'd mortgage the farm on him.

[jemagee]

Personally, I'm glad this trade flopped

[jemagee]

The just need less day games, that's all

http://www.thegoodphight.com/2008/7/21/575767/aha

[The Sixer Fixer]

Wowwww.  Even if Fuentes opts out, ummmm.... we're talking about Matt Holiday.

Matt Holliday, throughout his career, has been a mediocre player outside of Coors Field.  His career splits:
Home: .363 avg, 1.085 OPS, 1 hr every 15.5 at bats
Away: .277 avg, .790 OPS, 1 hr every 30.7 at bats

I don't think I'd mortgage the farm on him.

I disagree.  Yes, Matt Holliday has been much better in Coors that anywhere else, but he'd go from Coors to possibly an even better hitters park.  I don't see his overall #'s going down much.  I'm sure some of our guys have similar splits playing here, but would not devalue them because of that if we were trading them.  Utley for one has put up much better power #'s here over the last couple years.

I don't see any deal where we trade some of our minor league guys are "mortaging the farm".  Face it, our top prospects aren't even that good and this rumor didn't even have us trading away some of the best ones we do have.

[jemagee]

but he'd go from Coors to possibly an even better hitters park

There are actual numbers out there that prove this statement false.

I don't see any deal where we trade some of our minor league guys are "mortaging the farm".  Face it, our top prospects aren't even that good and this rumor didn't even have us trading away some of the best ones we do have.

Carrasco and marson are the two top prospects in the phillies organization right now, marson is probably one of the 3 best catching prospects in the game.

If you keep stripping your minor league system on middling players who are going to leave, your system will not improve.

Hallladys 'benefit' is only for a part of this season, then he's just repalcing pat burrell, and I like pat burrell better and is the phillies think GREG FRACKING GOLSON is going to be a quality Major League centerfielder, we should all just give up now cause this organization is run by total douches with no clue

[The Sixer Fixer]

There are actual numbers out there that prove this statement false.

Well, fact is this is an elite hitters park.  more favorable than Coors in '05, '06 and '07 in HR rate.  Tough to guage other run production type numbers because Colorado has had some awful pitching over the last 'x' number of years.

Also, hearing someone say they would prefer Burrell to Holliday makes me question someone knowledge.

[jemagee]

Also, hearing someone say they would prefer Burrell to Holliday makes me question someone knowledge.

This year.  BTW - an excellent WIP influenced statement by the way...burrell is having an all star year this year.

NExt year all halladay does is replace burrell, and i suppose we should ignore that fact that there are 81 games NOT in philadlephia, the phillies would be stripping their mediocre but getting better farm system and still not fixing the PROBLEMS.

But yeah, it'd make a big splash so WIP folks would be impressed

Pitching wins in the playoffs

Blaton doesn't solve the issue.


Halladay Fuentes doesn't solve the issue.

Gillick is leaving town after this season I wouldn't let him make ANY more trades cause he doesn't have to worry about the long term implications.

People smarter than me have already expressed why the halladay move wouldn't help the phils win the title this year.  two phillie oriented websites out there than have already broken iit down and paid attention to things like park factors (which is more than just home runs) and the fact that halladay gets a big coors field help.

[Derek Bodner]

I disagree.  Yes, Matt Holliday has been much better in Coors that anywhere else, but he'd go from Coors to possibly an even better hitters park.

What!?!?!?

This myth that Citizens Bank Park is one of the top hitters parks has got to stop.

First, ESPN's park factor.  Updated daily. 
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/parkfactor

The stat is defined on the page.  Citizens Bank Park is a middle of the pack pitchers ballpark.  It's actually in the lower half of the league (16 out of 30) in terms of hitters parks.  A better pitchers park than hitters park!

(last year Citizens Bank Park was 14th out of 30).

Ok, need more evidence?  Let's look at individual players.  If Citizens Bank Park is such a great hitters park, it would make sense that our starting pitchers have a better ERA on the road, and our hitters have better numbers at home:
Hamels: 2.79 ERA at home, 3.53 on the road.
Myers: 3.81 at home, 8.18 on the road
Kendrick: 4.69 at home, 5.02 on the road.

Eaton does have a higher ERA at home, but he actually gives up more home runs on the road than at home (1 hr every 11.5 IP at home, 1 home run every 6 on the road.

Batters (home run rate):
Howard: 1 hr every 12.2 at bats at home, 1 every 13 at bats on the road.
Burrell: 1 hr every 20.8 at bats at home, 1 every 9.2 on the road
Utley: 1 every 11 at bats at home, 1 every 23 on the road (for what it's worth, Utley does have a higher OPS on the road).

There is no evidence to point to Citizens Bank Park to be one of the top hitters parks in the game.  It actually looks fairly well balanced.  3 of our starting 5 gives up less runs at home than on the road.  Of our big 3 hitters, 1 hits pretty much the same amount of home runs at home vs on the road (Howard), one hits considerably more on the road (Burrell), and one hits considerably more at home (Utley).

I would say CBP favors left handed pull hitters with a short porch in right field, but pretty unforgiving in left and center (which becomes even more troublesome for the right handed hitting Holliday).  It was a slight hitters park the first season, but the changes have leveled it out to where it's about average.  There's no way you can argue that CBP is anywhere near the hitters haven Coors field is, which has been a hitters park since its exception with (2nd in park factor in 2001, 1st in 2002, 4th in 2003, 1st in 2004, 1st in 2005, 2nd in 2006, 3rd in 2007, 6th in 2008.

Seriously, there's just no way.

[Derek Bodner]

Tough to guage other run production type numbers because Colorado has had some awful pitching over the last 'x' number of years.

Park factor is independent of the quality of pitching staffs. 

[Derek Bodner]

our top prospects aren't even that good and this rumor didn't even have us trading away some of the best ones we do have.

Carrasco is our best pitching prospect.  Marson is our best position player prospcet.  How is that not trading away some of our best ones?