ESPN Chat Stuff

[DuckyNinja]

Luke (Toronto): If Jermaine can stay healthy.... I know, big if. How close is Toronto to the conference finals? Their financial situation is now somewhat grim. Any other plans Colangelo might have to improve the team?

Chad Ford: They're close, but I'd put Boston, Detroit, Philadelphia and possibly Cleveland (depending on what they do this summer) ahead of them. I do think the Raptors will be better with a healthy JO and dangerous.

Apparently Chad Ford thinks we're already the 3rd best team in the Eastern Conference.

[TheGuiltyParty]

It seems unlikely, but in Ed I trust.  It still feels weird to have confidence in a GM.

Seriously. This feeling of talking things out and then ending it with, "Well, I'm sure Ed will make the right decision" is totally new to me. Smith and Williams for Gordon would leave our roster looking a little crazy but when you consider that we have versatile players who can play multiple positions, I'm sure we would be alright. If such a trade went down, we would HAVE to sign Kevin Ollie for the minimum.

Miller/Ollie
Iguodala/Gordon/Green
Young/?
Brand/Evans/Speights
Dalembert/?

That does look unbalanced but I think it would be fine when you look at a minutes breakdown.

1. Miller [35MPG]/Iguodala [8]/Ollie [5]
2. Iguodala [15]/Gordon [35]
3. Young [33]/Iguodala [15]
4. Brand [28]/Young [5]/Evans [15]
5. Dalembert [33]/Brand [10]/Speights [5]

Everyone gets their minutes.... everyone knows their role... that team competes for titles for the next 5 years and probably beyond given the age of many of the young guys who need to develop.

[shadowTerp]

Apparently Chad Ford thinks we're already the 3rd best team in the Eastern Conference.

   But, but... we don't have anyone who can make an outside shot. 

[Derek Bodner]

Wait... Chad Ford just wrote something that I think makes a lot of sense?? I don't love the idea of trading Speights but like many others, if the right offer came along , I'm going to listen.

I'd really, really like to hang onto speights.  I'm fairly confident him him working out for us.  I'd do Lou Will + Smith in a heartbeat.

[The Sixer Fixer]

Lou Will and Smith in a S/T for Gordon would not really work $$ wise would it?  I'm assuming Gordon gets at least 8 mil to start (then again, which team that has cap room will pay him that?).  I assume Ben will choose the 1 yr tender and stay in Chicago for 1 more year, then become a UFA, if he can't get something starting at 8 mil this year.

[jemagee]

Well it depends on what Louis Willaims gets in his contract and the whole BYC status of things does it not?

[DuckyNinja]

It seems unlikely, but in Ed I trust.  It still feels weird to have confidence in a GM.

Seriously. This feeling of talking things out and then ending it with, "Well, I'm sure Ed will make the right decision" is totally new to me. Smith and Williams for Gordon would leave our roster looking a little crazy but when you consider that we have versatile players who can play multiple positions, I'm sure we would be alright. If such a trade went down, we would HAVE to sign Kevin Ollie for the minimum.

Miller/Ollie
Iguodala/Gordon/Green
Young/?
Brand/Evans/Speights
Dalembert/???

That does look unbalanced but I think it would be fine when you look at a minutes breakdown.

1. Miller (35MPG)/Iguodala (/Ollie (5)
2. Iguodala (15)/Gordon (35)
3. Young (33)/Iguodala (15)
4. Brand (28)/Young(5)/Evans(15)
5. Dalembert (33)/Brand (10)/Speights (5)

Everyone gets their minutes.... everyone knows their role... that team competes for titles for the next 5 years and probably beyond given the age of many of the young guys who need to develop.

I think if they were to trade Williams and Smith for Gordon, they would hafta sign some a decent vet PG like a Damon Stoudemire or Lindsay Hunter to take 10-15 PG minutes a game.  Really, if that's our only vet signing, we're still set.

1. Miller (35MPG)/Hunter (10)/Ollie (3)
2. Iguodala (15)/Gordon (33)
3. Young (25)/Iguodala (23)
4. Brand (34)/Young (7)/Evans (7)
5. Dalembert (33)/Evans (10)/Speights (5)

That's an 8 man rotation with 2 guys getting token minutes.  I don't necessarily like the thought of Evans playing backup C, but he showed that he could defend a few Cs fairly well (I was impressed by his defense on Dwight Howard), and he rebounds.  Not sure you're gonna do much better than him on the FA market, you might be able to find someone slightly more talented or slightly bigger, but having a guy who goes all out like Evans does I think is still important.  Plus, Evans is probably better than Smith at defending Cs even though Smith is taller.

And really, I have no clue how the contract stuff would work in an S+T like that, but it could be made to work.  Whether Chicago's willing to pay LouWill an extra few mil over the length of the contract to make it work is another question completely.

[shadowTerp]

Considering our low number of players (we have 10 total when we sign both Igoudala and Williams), I doubt we will do a 2-for-1 player swap right now.  We just don't have the depth, numbers-wise.

[TheGuiltyParty]

At this point, my mind will explode if I try to figure out the BYC issues of a sign and trade involving Gordon and Williams. Anyone care to take a stab at it??? Please. :-)

[TheGuiltyParty]

Considering our low number of players (we have 10 total when we sign both Igoudala and Williams), I doubt we will do a 2-for-1 player swap right now.  We just don't have the depth, numbers-wise.

If a trade of Williams/Smith for Gordon was agreed to by the Bulls, you'd be silly to pass on # of players. For a great example of this, look at Boston last season. Just because we don't have 12 guys, we would have our 8 man rotation set up and need some bodies to fill out the next of the roster. Considering that there have been reports of Ollie returning for the minimum and us keeping 1 or 2 players from our summer league roster, well... I don't think we'll be in that bad of a spot.

[DuckyNinja]

Analysis upcoming.  I'm gonna need 5-10 minutes to look up all the contracts and everything.

And yea, what TGP said.  Once you have the 8 or 9 man rotation, the rest of the roster is just filler anyway.  And assuming everything postulated as true, they would have Miller, Hunter, Ollie, Iggy, Gordon, Green (lol, we all forgot about him), Young, Brand, Evans, Dalembert, Speights.  Leaves 4 bench spots for other vets or young developmental players.  Really, how many 12th-15th men are going to make any kind of impact on a season?

[sixers hoops]

At this point, my mind will explode if I try to figure out the BYC issues of a sign and trade involving Gordon and Williams. Anyone care to take a stab at it??? Please. :-)

KillBuckner from realgm said that Andre would be consider BYC, and he generally knows his stuff. If he is correct and Andre is base-year, then a trade for Gordon couldn't happen. They wouldn't be able to find a third team to take all of the extra salary they need to send out and can't take back.

At that point, I would just try to negotiate a contract with Ben starting at 8 million or less. If it happens, you could just renounce Andre make him an unrestricted free-agent and sign Ben for the cap space that Andre's caphold was taking up.

However, I would rather keep Andre.

[The Sixer Fixer]

At this point, my mind will explode if I try to figure out the BYC issues of a sign and trade involving Gordon and Williams. Anyone care to take a stab at it??? Please. :-)

KillBuckner from realgm said that Andre would be consider BYC, and he generally knows his stuff. If he is correct and Andre is base-year, then a trade for Gordon couldn't happen. They wouldn't be able to find a third team to take all of the extra salary they need to send out and can't take back.

At that point, I would just try to negotiate a contract with Ben starting at 8 million or less. If it happens, you could just renounce Andre make him an unrestricted free-agent and sign Ben for the cap space that Andre's caphold was taking up.

However, I would rather keep Andre.

I curious if that is accurate..from the Larry Coon FAQ..

Usually the salary used for comparison is the player's actual salary.  But under either of the following circumstances, a different salary is used when comparing salaries for trading purposes:

- The team is over the salary cap, used the Larry Bird or Early Bird exception to re-sign the player, and the player received a raise greater than 20% (unless it's the minimum salary).
 
- The team is over the salary cap, it extended the player's rookie scale contract, and the player received a raise greater than 20%.

If either of the above apply, then the player is considered a base year player.  A player remains a base year player for six months, or until June 30, whichever comes later.  When trading a base year player, the salary used for comparison is the player's previous salary, or 50% of the first-year salary in his new contract, whichever is greater.

Both scenarios say "If the team is OVER the cap" then he's BYC.  I guess the question would be, if we are under the cap BUT go over the cap to sign him, does that mean we are actually OVER the cap and thus he becomes BYC?

[The Sixer Fixer]

At this point, my mind will explode if I try to figure out the BYC issues of a sign and trade involving Gordon and Williams. Anyone care to take a stab at it??? Please. :-)

KillBuckner from realgm said that Andre would be consider BYC, and he generally knows his stuff. If he is correct and Andre is base-year, then a trade for Gordon couldn't happen. They wouldn't be able to find a third team to take all of the extra salary they need to send out and can't take back.

At that point, I would just try to negotiate a contract with Ben starting at 8 million or less. If it happens, you could just renounce Andre make him an unrestricted free-agent and sign Ben for the cap space that Andre's caphold was taking up.

However, I would rather keep Andre.

BY the way, the discussion was over trading Lou and Smith for Ben, not trading Andre for Ben.  The idea was both Ben and Andre would be here.

[DuckyNinja]

I believe the answer is that both Lou and Gordon would count for half their first year salary or something along those lines.  So I believe the answer is unless Lou gets like less than half Gordon's salary, with Jason Smith, they could pull it off.