Author Topic: ESPN Chat Stuff  (Read 50512 times)

Offline Skates

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Re: ESPN Chat Stuff
« Reply #15 on: July 01, 2008, 04:09:14 PM »
I get the whole Iguodala/Thad shift thing... but even after, especially after that, we will become one of the worst shooting teams in the league. I think you can get away with 3 SFs in your starting lineup (Dala, Thad, and Smith) but I don't know know that you can do it with a PG who has as limited range as Miller.

I really do believe that a lineup of Hinrich/Dala/Thad/Marion/Dalembert is better than a team of Miller/Dala/Thad/Smith/Dalembert.

I am not a Hinrich fan, but if we get Josh Smith acquiring shooters off the bench and at the less traditional positions would be key.  A PG with outside shooting capabilities would be nice as would a center with some long range touch.  While I don't completely buy Stefanski's current claim that all of our shooting woes will be resolved from within (I don't think he buys it either), I do anticipate that Iggy, Thad, Carney, Lou and Jason Smith will keep improving their jump shots to the point of being adequate at least, some may be better tha adequate.  Add in one or two long range specialists and I think we have enough shooting at that point.

Offline DuckyNinja

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Re: ESPN Chat Stuff
« Reply #16 on: July 01, 2008, 04:17:00 PM »
I get the whole Iguodala/Thad shift thing... but even after, especially after that, we will become one of the worst shooting teams in the league. I think you can get away with 3 SFs in your starting lineup (Dala, Thad, and Smith) but I don't know know that you can do it with a PG who has as limited range as Miller.

I really do believe that a lineup of Hinrich/Dala/Thad/Marion/Dalembert is better than a team of Miller/Dala/Thad/Smith/Dalembert.

I am not a Hinrich fan, but if we get Josh Smith acquiring shooters off the bench and at the less traditional positions would be key.  A PG with outside shooting capabilities would be nice as would a center with some long range touch.  While I don't completely buy Stefanski's current claim that all of our shooting woes will be resolved from within (I don't think he buys it either), I do anticipate that Iggy, Thad, Carney, Lou and Jason Smith will keep improving their jump shots to the point of being adequate at least, some may be better tha adequate.  Add in one or two long range specialists and I think we have enough shooting at that point.

I'd like to point out that the Sixers do in fact have a PG who can shoot the 3.  The only question is can he be a full time PG?  And really, why not find out this year?  Miller's gone after this year and there's no heir apparent.  I don't think Williams will ever be a good traditional PG, but in a lineup of Williams-Iggy-Thad-Smith-Dalembert, where's the need for a traditional PG?  Those are all guys who tend to go 1v1 more than look for the beautiful pass other than for an alley-oop.

jemagee

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Re: ESPN Chat Stuff
« Reply #17 on: July 01, 2008, 04:43:51 PM »
I get the whole Iguodala/Thad shift thing... but even after, especially after that, we will become one of the worst shooting teams in the league. I think you can get away with 3 SFs in your starting lineup (Dala, Thad, and Smith) but I don't know know that you can do it with a PG who has as limited range as Miller.

I really do believe that a lineup of Hinrich/Dala/Thad/Marion/Dalembert is better than a team of Miller/Dala/Thad/Smith/Dalembert.

The sixers were starting willie green and reggie evans for a majority of the season, wouldn't they already been oneof the worst shooting teams in the league?  Once they dumped korver, they sucked at the 3, adding a PF isn't going to help that unless yo uget dirk

Offline tk76-

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Re: ESPN Chat Stuff
« Reply #18 on: July 01, 2008, 04:44:11 PM »
Lou as a starting PG is against coventional wisdom (as is Smith at PF.)  That doen't mean that you can't win by trying to break the mold, its just riskier.

Unlike most, I would actually like to see how Lou does with extended minutes at PG.  I'm not confident he will succeed (and he'l  never be a traditional Stockton type), but he has so much talent that I'd like to see him at least get a shot at PG.  Assuming it doesn't work out, he's still good as a 6th man scoring guard who can do double duty as a back-up point.

The ideal non-conventional line-up I would like to see is Crit-LW in the back court.  It could end up being a Knick style Francis/Marbury disaster, but I have a feeling the personalities and not the talent killed that combo- and Lou is more of a team first player so it could work.

jemagee

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Re: ESPN Chat Stuff
« Reply #19 on: July 01, 2008, 04:44:27 PM »
Louis Williams is not a point guard
he's a short shooting guard

Offline Derek Bodner

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Re: ESPN Chat Stuff
« Reply #20 on: July 01, 2008, 04:51:48 PM »
Quote
The sixers were starting willie green and reggie evans for a majority of the season, wouldn't they already been oneof the worst shooting teams in the league?  Once they dumped korver, they sucked at the 3, adding a PF isn't going to help that unless yo uget dirk

And the Sixers inability to generate half court offense was a huge part of their problem this year, and an inabilty to shoot from the perimeter is a big part of that.  By moving Thad to the 3 and Iguodala to the 2, you're looking at that as your long term solution to the wing, and I don't think it's wrong to question whether that's going to work.

I mean, sure, they can improve over last year.  But is that the goal, or is winning a championship the goal?  If winning a championship is the goal, I don't think it's unfair to question whether a Miller/Iguodala/Young wing combo has enough shooting to dos o.

Offline DuckyNinja

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Re: ESPN Chat Stuff
« Reply #21 on: July 01, 2008, 04:52:40 PM »
Louis Williams is not a point guard
he's a short shooting guard

While I'm about 65% sure this is the case, we're not gonna win it all this year, and with Miller being gone for sure next year, there's really no harm in trying L-W for a little while.  Worst thing that can happen is it doesn't work out.  But Williams seemed competent as the only PG on the floor last year.

Offline DuckyNinja

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Re: ESPN Chat Stuff
« Reply #22 on: July 01, 2008, 04:55:49 PM »
And the Sixers inability to generate half court offense was a huge part of their problem this year, and an inabilty to shoot from the perimeter is a big part of that.  By moving Thad to the 3 and Iguodala to the 2, you're looking at that as your long term solution to the wing, and I don't think it's wrong to question whether that's going to work.

I mean, sure, they can improve over last year.  But is that the goal, or is winning a championship the goal?  If winning a championship is the goal, I don't think it's unfair to question whether a Miller/Iguodala/Young wing combo has enough shooting to dos o.

Once again, I think the solution to this problem is to move Miller (maybe in an S+T somewhere for a big man if Smith doesn't work out or in a package for Brand or something) and let Williams try.  I think the goal is winning a championship, but I don't think that's a realistic goal for this season.  I think a Williams/Iguodala/Young combo has enough shooting to force the defense to play somewhat honest.  And of course, this all changes based on who they get to play PF.

jemagee

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Re: ESPN Chat Stuff
« Reply #23 on: July 01, 2008, 05:04:28 PM »
Quote
The sixers were starting willie green and reggie evans for a majority of the season, wouldn't they already been oneof the worst shooting teams in the league?  Once they dumped korver, they sucked at the 3, adding a PF isn't going to help that unless yo uget dirk

And the Sixers inability to generate half court offense was a huge part of their problem this year, and an inabilty to shoot from the perimeter is a big part of that.  By moving Thad to the 3 and Iguodala to the 2, you're looking at that as your long term solution to the wing, and I don't think it's wrong to question whether that's going to work.

I mean, sure, they can improve over last year.  But is that the goal, or is winning a championship the goal?  If winning a championship is the goal, I don't think it's unfair to question whether a Miller/Iguodala/Young wing combo has enough shooting to dos o.

But wasn't part of the problem with the half court offense that the sixers had no one in the post, no one to draw a double team, no one to pass out of a double team, the same problem they had the entirety of the iverson era, no big men that scared other teams...i think solving the PF problem properly also opens up the half court offense, the sixers front court (minus young who is a sf) PF/C players might be the most motley group of offensive based tools ever.

If the sixers don't know if Louis Williams is a point guard yet, they are guilty of some sort of malpractice since they are about to give him a longt term deal.

Iverson isn't a point guard, arenas isn't a point guard, louis williams isn't a point guard, he's just a short shooting guard...

Offline Derek Bodner

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Re: ESPN Chat Stuff
« Reply #24 on: July 01, 2008, 05:30:19 PM »
Quote
But wasn't part of the problem with the half court offense that the sixers had no one in the post, no one to draw a double team, no one to pass out of a double team

This team, as currently constructed, would waste a post presence.  They need people to drain open shots after a post presence forces a double team.  That's why Orlando surrounds dwight with Rashard and Hedo.  Duncan with Ginobili, Barry, Horry, Bowen.  Shaq was surrounded by Fisher and Horry, and even guys like Rick Fox, Devean George, Lindsay Hunter and Kobe (all of whom are sadly better than any 3 pt shooters we have).  Get the drift?  There's a reason for that.  When a double team comes, it generally comes from the perimeter.  By having nobody who can hit an open shot, the post thread is going to be doubled a lot more, become less effective, and not generate assists the way he could/should.

No, we're not expecting the 4 to be our answer as an outside shooter.  But what we are saying is that if you acquire a post-oriented 4, and move Iguodala to the 2 and Thad to the 3, that you should come to the realization that an Andre Miller/Iguodala/Thad backcourt is going to make it hard for that post presence to operate, and limit the driving lanes available in the half court set.

jemagee

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Re: ESPN Chat Stuff
« Reply #25 on: July 01, 2008, 05:46:55 PM »
I see better now, thank you

Offline tk76-

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Re: ESPN Chat Stuff
« Reply #26 on: July 01, 2008, 05:48:34 PM »
I won't deny that a combo of Thad and Iguodala is weak on shooting, but I still think that on whole, they could end up one of the best 2/3 combo's in the league.  Certainly not this year, but as soon as 2 years from now.

You don't become a sharpshooter like KK or Ray Allen, but I expect both Thad and Iguodala to become effective jump shooters over the next few years.  Iguodala already has made huge strides as a shooter.  I even think he could become a 40%+ three point shooter if he took mostly opens 3s (like someone like Bell and Bowen.

Maybe I need to take of my fan rose colored glasses, but I see Iguodala and Young as becoming good shooters, and overall high fg% in a few years.

I do agree that whoever we get as our PG of the future needs to be able to hit an outside shot.  I though Calderone would have been a great fit- despite his defensive weaknesses.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2008, 05:50:20 PM by tk76- »

jemagee

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Re: ESPN Chat Stuff
« Reply #27 on: July 01, 2008, 05:56:57 PM »
has iguodala progressed as a shooter over the past 4 seasons to give you hope he'll continue?  I'm not sure

Offline tk76-

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Re: ESPN Chat Stuff
« Reply #28 on: July 01, 2008, 06:44:01 PM »
has iguodala progressed as a shooter over the past 4 seasons to give you hope he'll continue?  I'm not sure

I think he has.  Its hard to demonstrate with stats, because he went from being a low volume, easy degree of difficulty shooter in his early years to a player that has to create his own shots and rarely gets uncontested looks anymore.  I think he will get more good looks if we add a post presence and Thad starts to demand more defensive attention from long swing defenders on the wing.  Iguodala won't be covered by the Princes of the world if Thad becomes a threat.  At very least Iguodala will see less of the long, rangy defenders that give him fits.

Offline Skates

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Re: ESPN Chat Stuff
« Reply #29 on: July 01, 2008, 07:25:25 PM »
I think Iggy has improved his jump shot, but agree that sometimes his shot selection with it is suspect.  I think Thad will be the better mid-range shooter, he has a smooth stroke.  Iggy can be a good set three point shooter as noted.  Jason Smith can also likely stretch his range to the three point line with success.  Lou is a streaky shooter who also has shot selection issues at times.

I still don't see Lou as the starter at PG, maybe in a platoon type situation, but playing 40 minutes a game will get him beat up.  His best use is as a combo guard, bench player at about 25-30 high energy minutes a night.